Ezpz
No mad pls
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Yeah I can't imagine sergachev is ever 100% again. Two major injuries in one season.
HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season
- Thread starter MarkovsKnee
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sampollock
Registered User
Let's focus on scoring up front, brutal what Habs have now.
2nd is crap
And build a tough 3rd to play against
Missing SM.
2nd is crap
And build a tough 3rd to play against
Missing SM.
At this point, you don't trade Matheson. You try to get some value on Gallagher, Dvorak, Armia, Allen and Anderson. If he can unload Price, that's a bonus too. HuGo did a great job clearing BargainBin's mess but the Habs' prospects have yet to shine. Unless the plan is to tank perpetually.
BargainBin failed to think post Price and there you have it.
Seems like Kent is stockpilling on picks. Let's see if it materializes into something unlike the BargainBin.
Armia + Gallagher should be just fine. They will be reunited with the one who granted them financial security.
That's not really true. He should definitely play more and over Allen, but we've got a good look at him, and I don't think they'll overload Monty by the end of the year
1909
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I am pretty sure Habs management are not sure yet about Primeau's potential. MSL must be sick and tired to juggle with three goalies. It's up to Hughes to make up his mind.
Kobe Armstrong
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BargainBin also stockpiled picks and was able to ice a decently competitive team
BargainBin's picks were late rounders, he never managed to get firsts.
Kobe Armstrong
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He almost always added 2nd rounders, and we always kept our 1st, his biggest fault was that he was not aggressive enough in using those picks to add real players, not that he didn't tank and add high picks
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
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You build through the draft.
So, Bergevin proceed to draft safe, two-way players
Kobe Armstrong
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LaP
Registered User
Outside of the 2013, 2017 and 2018 drafts he mostly stockpiled 5th and 7th round picks. But even in 2013, 2017 and 2018 he mostly stockpiled 2nd and 3rd round picks. There's also that 3 years void from 2014 and 2016 where we had only two picks in the first 3 rounds which makes it very hard for your scouting team to do a good job. It's fine when you aim for a cup like when we got Vanek was fine but the other years team was clearly not good enough he had to do more.
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=== Marc Bergevin named GM ====
===
2012 : 1 x 1st, 2 x 2nd, 1x 3rd (4 x 3 rounds) no
2013 : 1 x 1st, 3 x 2nd, 2x 3rd (6 x top 3 rounds) yes
2014 : 1 x 1st, 1x 3rd (2 x top 3 rounds) no
2015 : 1 x 1st, 1 x 3rd (2 x top 3 rounds) no
2016 : 1 x 1st, 1 x 3rd (2 x top 3 rounds) no
2017 : 1 x 1st, 2 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd (5 x top 3 rounds) yes
2018 : 1 x 1st, 3 x 2nd, 3 x 3rd (6 x top 3 rounds) yes
2019 : 1 x 1st, 1 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd (4 x top 3 rounds) no
2020 : 1 x 1st, 2 x 2nd (3 x top 3 rounds) no
2021 : 1 x 1st, 3 x 2nd, 1 x 3rd (4 x top 3 rounds) no
===
=== Kent Hughes named GM ===
===
2022 : 2 x 1st, 3 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd (6 x top 3 rounds) yes
2023 : 1 x 1st, 1 x 3rd (2 x top 3 rounds) no (to be fair to KH he traded two picks for a young player but would still be a no and still a move i don't personally like)
2024 : 2 x 1st, 1 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd (5 x top 3 rounds) yes
2025 : 2 x 1st, 2 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd (6 x top 3 rounds) yes
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Gaylord Q Tinkledink
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Beck was at least a 2nd rounder. At thar point you're just hoping you get an NHLer.
Bergevin refused to help his team by fsrring good NHLers for 1st round picks+ to draft for need and rush those players to the NHL because he's an incompetent f***.
Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
They should have traded Allen a long time ago and try Primeau with more games. And if Primeau cannot cut it, you can always get a back-up at any time. There's no pressure as we are in a rebuilding mode.
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Kobe Armstrong
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I think if you want to be fair to Hughes you need to be fair to Bergevin too.
In 2016 he traded 2 high 2nd round picks for Andrew Shaw, an awful trade but similar to Hughes in 2023 (hopefully Newhook turns out better).
For Hughes picks in 2022, at least 1 bonus pick was inherited directly from Bergevin, and all other picks were attained from selling off Bergevin's good value contracts.
Also looking at 2012 and 2019-2021, why do those years not count as stockpiling picks?
He used those picks to acquire plugs, sort term solutions and would sign them to lucrative deals thinking he fell on diamonds in the rough.
Kobe Armstrong
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Kent pulled 2 similar trades with Dach and Newhook though. These guys actually have top 6 potential as for Shaw, he was a bottom 9 energy player even back then. Unfortunately, Dach and Newhook are already plagued by injuries. I don't like the Newhook deal. It was massive overpayment. As for Dach, Kent wanted to make a splash as a rookie GM. Dach is better than Newhook and they didn't pay so much to get him. Kent's mistakes are now evident with Anderson and Allen, which he didn't trade when he had the chance. Again, he did pull the best deals in NHL history by getting 2 firsts for taking on Monahan. No GM has managed to pull this in recent times except for the Caps who got Pacces for free. Shedding Weber's contract for a useless player which is now the Stars problem just adds to Kent's success. That's why there might be some hope in turning this franchise around.
Anderson is one. A third along with Domi. Petry is another for a fourth and second. Serg and a second for Drouin and a sixth. Edmundson for a 5th. Allen for a 3rd and 7th. All these guys were re-signed or extended by BargainBin.
Kobe Armstrong
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I think it's hard to hold Bergevin to the same standard as Hughes when Bergevin was icing an actually competitive team. The overall goal is completely different.
Who knows how Bergevin would've performed in a complete sell off environment. He was actually decent at getting value out of our veteran players.
The Monahan trade is undeniably great. What did Bergevin do when the team sucked and he was forced to trade his best forward and captain? He got back Suzuki + Tatar + a 2nd. If you think about it, that's actually a better trade than the Monahan one.
Anybody could've gotten 1sts for Toffoli and Chiarot after the cup run...
Nawww now you're getting a bit crazy
Anderson and Domi were both great trades and didn't cost us any picks. Petry was an outstanding trade and extension, he literally carried us for multiple seasons. The Serg pick was never actually transferred, and the Edmundson pick was a great move because again he helped us get to the Cup Finals, and we sold him off for more than we paid for him.
Allen was a fine move but I didn't like it at the time, the real mistake was Hughes signing him to an extension, not Bergevin
Bergevin inherited a team which already had something tangible with PK, Markov, Pacces, Gallagher and Price in their prime or a few years away from it. He failed to get this team to the promise land and his vision was to build around a superstar goalie. He never even managed to get a bonefied center. He didn't think about post Price and didn't draft well. His legacy is really Suzuki and Caufield. He got lucky. For every step he took forward, he took 2 back. Once Price fell, the team crumbled because it was poorly build. That's how good Price was. He carried the team for years while Marko, PK and Weber were pretty solid. What did Hughes inherit? A team of plugs, depth players and bad contracts. Had Bergevin stayed he wouldn't even get a first for Toffoli and Hugo would have easily gotten a first for Pacces.
The Great Weal
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And he did a disastrous job at icing something competitive. I will say that since then, many better players are getting traded and that the elite players that did get traded were from our division which made it pretty much impossible to trade with them. Still, the guy loved all his picks and busts to death and refused to trade any of them while they had value.
Bergvein had Price, Pacioretty, Subban, Markov, Gallagher, Plekanec, and a 3rd OA pick but chose not to continue rebuilding. Hughes has to deal with the dog shit contracts left over and has Suzuki, Caufield, 1st OA, Guhle, Romanov, Monty and a few vets that returned late 1sts. It's not even a comparison. I'm not going to say that Hughes has been the best GM ever or that he's not good enough, but it's hard to evaluate him this early on.
The Habs traded a 3rd along with Domi to get Josh. Get your facts straight. The fact that BargainBin signed Josh to a 7 yr deal was and still is ludicrous for a player who never hit 50 points once in his career. The Petry extension became an albatross because he no longer wanted to play here. BargainBin should have not extended him.
MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
Our best years during Bergevin's era was with Gainey's team. He inherited: Price, Subban, Markov, Plekanec, Eller, Desharnais, Gionta, Gill, Gorges. Basically the core of the team that at least went to Final Fours.
Once he started to build his team, it all went to crap. However, he did start recognizing the need to start drafting more, and did between 2018 and 2021, so he didn't leave the team without assets: Suzuki & Caufield his 2 big ones, but also Guhle, Xhekaj, Struble. He got lucky with Montembeault.
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