HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[McGees]

Weren't the players we wanted to trade injured?

Edmundson came back the game before TDL.
We were hoping for Allen, Eddy, Hoffman, Dvo, Anderson and Money hands who never got healthy in time.

 

[Deus ex machina]

whats the take on a anderson-kuzmenko trade 1 for 1?
kuz 1 more year at 5m
seems to be in the tocchet doghouse

Why would MTL do that?

Kuzmenko has been healthy scratched a few times already. He probably has negative value at this point.

 

[Revansky]

Why would MTL do that?

Kuzmenko has been healthy scratched a few times already. He probably has negative value at this point.

You get out of Anderson contract who is longer than Kuzmenko. It would make a ton of sense from a cap perspective, and in no way would the Canucks do this.

 

[IndigoJeans]

I'd trade him because:

a) more likely a 1st rd pick than a 5th
b) We won't trade both D vets and I think they like Matheson or at least play him like they do
c) He will be 34 going into next season and I could see his play fall off quickly so I'd rather trade for assets while value is high still

"More likely a 1rst rd pick than a 5th", lol, you abuse substances more than the two guys on my avatar.

He's a good veteran leader and predictable defender, but:

1. I haven't seen anyone say they'd move him for a 5th round pick, most reporting is that he would worth significantly more than that; and
2. saying he doesn't hurt the team isn't entirely true. Take the stats with a grain of salt, but no player on the Habs has a worse 5v5 GA/60, xGA/60, CA/60, etc. - he doesn't have the flashy miscues of other D, but players like Savard need the right teammates and usage to be effective and Montreal can't provide either.

Habs have a ton of 1rst, second and third rounders in the next 2 years. Adding another let's say a 3rd will give what? Habs will have time and energy to developp a ton of draft picks, correctly? What they need is another Dach or Newhook. If Savard can help bring that kind of player, fine, but he'doesn't have enough value. You don't think he have such value if you're honest and you think a gm will not know what you know?

This a typical case where the player were we have have more value for us than for others. I think Matheson have more value for other teams (he's younger) but mostly Monahan and Armia. We have tons of good ds coming, a d like Harris could be attractive in a trade, in a combo trade including other players.

 

[McGees]

"More likely a 1rst rd pick than a 5th", lol, you abuse substances more than the two guys on my avatar.

What top 4 Dman that plays over 20 min per game goes for a 5th?
I'll be here abusing substances until you can tell me....

He also went for 1st and 3rd 3 years ago averaging less ice time and ppg.

 

[Runner77]

What top 4 Dman that plays over 20 min per game goes for a 5th?
I'll be here abusing substances until you can tell me....

He also went for 1st and 3rd 3 years ago averaging less ice time and ppg.

I’ve had to resort to hallucinogenic substances myself, as I tried to figure out which dinosaur was traded for what other one in pre-historic times, based on your earlier post.

 

[ML16]

All good points.
If he is looking for biggest payday (entirely possible, perhaps most likely), then I'd hope we aren't his destination... But I'm not sure there are many teams that would have the cap space & need to match the 5-6M/per we could easily justify on a 3-4yr deal.

Besides Markov, a few current players doing well in their mid 30's despite significant injury histories:
Basically all of the pens lol (Crosby, Malkin, Letang, EK), Stamkos, Seguin, Couturier...

Gary Roberts is perhaps the gold standard of that example. Near career ending kneck injury that made him do a 180 on his approach to the game & returned to have a long productive post injury career 2nd 1/2.

The mental/emotional "how" a person responds to that kind of adversity is, imo, a pretty strong character indicator. When a player shows Monahan's type of resilience, if physically they can recover, the next chapters of their performance career are strong bets to exceed general expectations.

Hopefully the fit he's found in the org./city & as one of the leaders of this group, plus the upward trajectory of the roster, is enough enticement for him to want to be a part of it for 3-4 more years.

Last year, Killorn got [email protected] for his 34-38 yr old seasons

With the cap bumping up, Monahan at the same deal (for his 30-34 yr old seasons) would be a much better team contract... Would he turn that down?
Would someone else give him 5@7M?

Will be interesting to see where he lands.

If Monahan doesn’t fetch at least a 1st round pick equivalent at TDL 2024, I too would not be against signing mid-term (3-4 years) around 5-6M AAV.

With Dach and the entire D corps effectively on cost-controlled deals during that timeframe, the Habs could easily afford it.

And with the influx of ELCs integrating the roster within the next few years, Monahan playing middle-6 duties in a mentoring role would surely prove quite useful - not unlike Matheson and Savard right now on D.

 

[Runner77]

Pierre LeBrun on BPM today:

Je pense que ce qui va arriver avec Monahan, dans plusieurs cas, c’est qu’il va être comme le plan B après que les équipes s’essaient pour Elias Lindholm.

Translation: thinks what is likely to happen is that in many cases, Monahan will be plan B after teams have tried to land Lindholm.

LeBrun adds that he’s hearing Boston and the AVS are targeting Lindholm as their first choice.

Source: «Monahan sera le plan B après Elias Lindholm pour de nombreuses équipes»

 

[MasterMatt25]

Proposal:

Allen + Monahan

Campbell + Bourgault + 1st + 3rd

 

[Runner77]

Interesting juxtaposition between Lindholm and Monahan, with both players having played 45 games:

Lindholm: 30 points, $4.85 M on expiring contract

Monahan: 28 points, $1.985 M on expiring contract

No question there has to be a good market for Monahan.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Proposal:

Allen + Monahan

Campbell + Bourgault + 1st + 3rd

Add another 1st and it's still not enough.

 

[Deus ex machina]

You get out of Anderson contract who is longer than Kuzmenko. It would make a ton of sense from a cap perspective, and in no way would the Canucks do this.

For the nth time... Anderson doesn't have negative value.

I'm pretty sure Vancouver would rather have 5.5M in cap space instead of Kuzmenko.
He's like their Drouin this year.

 

[Vachon23]

Last year was the worst deadline of all time...
even going back to pre-historic era where dinosaurs were traded for other dinosaurs...We couldn't even trade an Edmundsonsaurus for a bag of leaves.

2017 was worst

The eastern conference was open and we had the pieces to go far but the best player available was freaking Martin Hanzal…

 

[McGees]

2017 was worst

The eastern conference was open and we had the pieces to go far but the best player available was freaking Martin Hanzal…

How about 2009 when we had Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, Schneider etc as free agents and lost them all for nothing...instead we squeaked into playoffs with a bad team and got swept to Boston.

 

[Deus ex machina]

Proposal:

Allen + Monahan

Campbell + Bourgault + 1st + 3rd

That's not nearly enough for taking on Campbell.

Edmonton has to go for it this year and so has to get rid of Campbell to create the cap space they need. But i don't think they're willing to give the assets that would be required for trading Campbell.
One way i could see around this is MTL taking on Campbell now and sending back Gallagher after the season.

The difference in cap hit between Gally and Campbell for the next 3 years is about the same as Campbell's cap hit this year.

So what about:

EDM gets:
Monahan
Allen (50% retained)
Barron (for RD depth this year and the future)
Future considerations (Gallagher in the summer)

MTL gets:
2024 1st
2024 2nd (or maybe Bourgault)
Holloway
Campbell

This gives EDM depth everywhere for their playoff run this year. Plus around 1.5M of extra cap space for adding another piece.
The price is adding a 1.5M cap hit for the next 3 years. But the cap is going up, so it's manageable.

The only problem is Gallagher's NMC, but EDM is his hometown and he might want to go to a contender.

I think Gally has really lost a step (or two) and is becoming a liability out there. Almost as useless as Campbell.
The Habs really need to get bigger and faster up front. Removing Gally and adding Holloway is a good first step.

 

[themilosh]

That deal would be Erat-Forsberg level crazy.

Not really. Monahan is vastly superior to Erat. He is a great addition to make a run for the next couple of years.. Rangers dont have time to develop Kakko, and while I think he still has potential he's nearing the point of no return.

 

[HuGort]

There's no question that if we waive Primeau he's getting claimed. Carolina just claimed Martin off waivers, and that guy is complete crap.

I hope we keep Allen. They say he's excellent student of netminding and good help to young goalies. Look at Montembeault since he came here or Billington in St.Louis? Carter Hutton numbers after he left Blues? They all had better numbers teaming with Allen.

JA probably our future goalie coach. Makes big raise and extension Hughes gave him more explainable. Combined with Habs drafting 3 goalies last draft. See what he's hoping to do?

Might get pick for Primeau is my hope. If not 3 goalie monster worked well this season.

 

[Scriptor]

Montreal has one retention spot left and will be getting Edmundson's rtentionspotback at the end of this year.

IMO, Montrealwon't need toehold bacon Monahan's contract that is peanuts shy of 2M.

So, whomever gets a better return at 50% out of Armia, Dvorak, Savard, or Allen, ought to be traded at this year's deadline.

With only 1 retention spot left starting this coming offseason and throughout next season, I would keep that to hold back on Matheson in a trade, in order to get monster haul back for the veteran PMD at only 2.4375M for playoff run and an extra year.

Dvorak's, Savard's and Allen's contracts can all expire on their own and be done at the end of next season if we can't find a taker at full value.

The goal is to get maximum value back for the sum of our assets, not really just something back for all of our assets.

 

[Intangir]

Montreal has one retention spot left and will be getting Edmundson's rtentionspotback at the end of this year.

IMO, Montrealwon't need toehold bacon Monahan's contract that is peanuts shy of 2M.

So, whomever gets a better return at 50% out of Armia, Dvorak, Savard, or Allen, ought to be traded at this year's deadline.

With only 1 retention spot left starting this coming offseason and throughout next season, I would keep that to hold back on Matheson in a trade, in order to get monster haul back for the veteran PMD at only 2.4375M for playoff run and an extra year.

Dvorak's, Savard's and Allen's contracts can all expire on their own and be done at the end of next season if we can't find a taker at full value.

The goal is to get maximum value back for the sum of our assets, not really just something back for all of our assets.

I agree.

To add, I also really think we should look to trade Monahan at the deadline and not re-sign him past this year.

Although I like him, and the help he brings to our center lineup in Kirby Dach's absence, I feel that we will be better served going after a young-ish forward prospect with clear top 6 upside, or a pick to get one, instead of hanging onto Monahan and potentially giving him too much term on his next deal.

It's pretty clear with the season he's having that Monahan will leverage his recent production and try to angle for at least 3-4 years on his next contract, and I don't think it would be wise to give him that.

As for the value we could get back for Monahan in a trade, I think we likely won't be able to get a first-round pick straight-up given his injury history.

And if that last assertion holds true, I would actually rather we package a lower pick/prospect alongside him if it allows us to nab a first-round pick/similar forward prospect instead in a trade.

We already have nice depth pieces in our prospect pool, and some very good projected 3rd/4th liners (plus what we will likely acquire in later rounds this draft with our gajillion picks).

But outside Roy and Mesar I personally believe that we don't currently have any forward prospects in our pool with true-blue top 6 upside.

That said, our first-round pick this year will help with that, but we'll need yet more forward talent to really start building a strong team in 2-3 years, and we can't bank on impact UFAs coming as we are not New York or a similar highly-attractive american city.

Hence why we really should trade Monahan, Kovacevic, Allen and company this deadline, make the most of our assets as you've said, and then move from there depending on what we get in return.

As for forward prospects in the 2024 draft, I personally think that, excluding Celebrini that we definitely won't luck-out and be in a position to draft, there are only 4 of them (Demidov, Catton, Lindstrom and Eiserman), that have more than a slight chance to potentially be first-liners at the NHL level from what I've seen and that we could somehow realistically manage to get.

Of course, it would suck to miss out on them but they will likely be drafted high.

So I think it would actually be a good idea this particular year given the state of our prospect pool to trade-up in this draft in order to nab one of those four. Or maybe we stay put and draft a guy like Helenius if our front office really likes him? I don't know.

Anyways, that was long-winded even for me and so I should stop there. Sorry for that and have a good morning/afternoon/evening/night. Cheers.

 

[calder candidate]

deleted

 

[nhlfan9191]

Proposal:

Allen + Monahan

Campbell + Bourgault + 1st + 3rd

There’s just too much term left on Campbell’s contract. It’s worse then Gallagher’s contract because at least we can use Gallagher without creating a log jam at a position. Edmonton’s going to have to buy him out.

 

[morhilane]

Interesting juxtaposition between Lindholm and Monahan, with both players having played 45 games:

Lindholm: 30 points, $4.85 M on expiring contract

Monahan: 28 points, $1.985 M on expiring contract

No question there has to be a good market for Monahan.

We can also add that both are 29 years old and were drafted 5th and 6th in 2013. Also:
Lindholm: 788 gp, 211g, 332a for 543 pts (0.689ppg)
Monahan: 726 gp, 229g, 278a for 507 pts (0.698ppg)

They are like twins.

And this comparison makes me wonder why the media claims teams are more interested in Lindholm when they don't have the cap space for him. Calgary is scoring a lot more than the Habs too.

 

[salbutera]

We can also add that both are 29 years old and were drafted 5th and 6th in 2013. Also:
Lindholm: 788 gp, 211g, 332a for 543 pts (0.689ppg)
Monahan: 726 gp, 229g, 278a for 507 pts (0.698ppg)

They are like twins.

And this comparison makes me wonder why the media claims teams are more interested in Lindholm when they don't have the cap space for him. Calgary is scoring a lot more than the Habs too.

Monahan’s injury history…

 

[Sterling Archer]

We can also add that both are 29 years old and were drafted 5th and 6th in 2013. Also:
Lindholm: 788 gp, 211g, 332a for 543 pts (0.689ppg)
Monahan: 726 gp, 229g, 278a for 507 pts (0.698ppg)

They are like twins.

And this comparison makes me wonder why the media claims teams are more interested in Lindholm when they don't have the cap space for him. Calgary is scoring a lot more than the Habs too.

It’s the recency bias with Monaghan’s multitude of injuries, though he looks like he’s full recovered from them and prospering. Imagine if he had better linemates and played on a better team, he’d have 10-15 more points at this point.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I hope we keep Allen. They say he's excellent student of netminding and good help to young goalies. Look at Montembeault since he came here or Billington in St.Louis? Carter Hutton numbers after he left Blues? They all had better numbers teaming with Allen.

JA probably our future goalie coach. Makes big raise and extension Hughes gave him more explainable. Combined with Habs drafting 3 goalies last draft. See what he's hoping to do?

Might get pick for Primeau is my hope. If not 3 goalie monster worked well this season.

If we can get a 3rd round or 4th round pick for Primeau, I'd be ok with that. He was a 7th round draft pick. He has a really cheap contract, and is signed for another year, so that's valuable. He has a .900 save percentage. Allen .901. That puts both in top 40, which is backup territory.

Allen is harder to trade due to the contract, and we have the cap space for him.

We have $7m in cap space next season without Price on LTIR and with Petry's retained salary, and only Barron & Ylonen to sign. Ylonen probably gets Pezzetta money around $820,000 if they even qualify him.

Barron below Harris maybe $1m. That gives us $5.18m to get to salary max, which we need to do to maximize Price's LTIR. If we resign Monahan, he isn't getting that much.