HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #86: 2023-2024 Season

[RationalExpectations]

Barron will never bring the physicality of Struble which immediately makes the latter a higher valued commodity due to playoff attribute benefit

Having only physical Ds seems like a bad idea too. Chiarot Edmundson Savard makes it really hard to get the puck ut. Let s see how Strubble develops

 

[Scriptor]

You seem to underestimate the learning curve of a young def. Barron is still very green. Offensive instinct is really hard to teach to a def, either he has it or he doesnt. Barron clearly has it and he has a great shot. I think with more time he can learn to minimize his defensive flaws. You are disregarding him very quickly by stating he could lose all his value.

I like to pair a offensive D with a more defensive D. A great balance for our future D corp could look like that

Hutson(off.)-Reinbacher(def)
Guhle(def.)-Barron(off)
Xhekaj(def)-Mailloux(off)
Harris(versatile can play both LD and RD)

It comes down to which one we prefer to keep between Xhekaj and Strubble. For me its Xhekaj. I really like Struble tho and I think he can bring the same kind of return in a trade as Romanov. We are talking a player like Dach or a top 15 pick

For me, it's Xhekaj AND Struble, far ahead of Barron, who has the sharpened defensive reflexes Dumbchenyuk when playing in his own zone, circa playoffs against the Rags when we added Martinsen, Ott and King for our playoff run to please Julien.

I think that playing Guhle with Barronis a big mistake and a waste of Guhle's shutdown skills as seen tonight against McDavid.

I think a D from outside the system will need to be acquired to play with Hutson, but the type of D that can insulate and protect Hutson is easier to acquire on the UFA front, or via at rade.

Guhle - Reinbacher
Hutson - UFA/Trade Acquisition
Xhekaj- Mailloux
Struble

Even Hutson plays tougher/harder than Harris and Barron.

That D will be 5/6 physical, 6/7 if you consider Struble as the 7th D.

When Guhle-Reinbacher play a more shutdown brand of D against offensive powerhouses during the regular season and throughout the playoffs, we can get some offense from a pairing with Hutson and another with Mailloux.

Barron and Harris will not be missed.

Hopefully, Barron can clinch a trade proposal if he is added to the mix.

 

[Scriptor]

Having only physical Ds seems like a bad idea too. Chiarot Edmundson Savard makes it really hard to get the puck ut. Let s see how Strubble develops

Being physical does not prevent you from being mobile, or from being a PMD. It helps that you can get the puck a puck battle if you are physical, though. Talk to Barron about that...

Guhle, Reinbacher, Xhekaj, Mailloux and Struble are all more physical Ds than Barron, but all are still mobile and can make a good first pass in transition, if not skate the puck up the ice.

Hutson is the only less physical D that we will need/want in the line, IMO, if we want to become a team that is difficut to play against, and even Hutson is more physical than Barron (or Harris, for that matter)!

 

[Deus ex machina]

Having only physical Ds seems like a bad idea too. Chiarot Edmundson Savard makes it really hard to get the puck ut. Let s see how Strubble develops

Chiarot and Edmundson are gone now.

Being physical and good offensively are not mutually exclusive.

Xhekaj is very physical but can also move, pass and shoot well.
Struble is arguably already their best D for effectively getting the puck out.
Mailloux is both physical and good offensively, but there's still question marks with him.

Xhekaj and Struble must stay, along with Guhle.
Hutson and Reinbacher are coming soon.
Those 5 are the core Ds for the future.
Mailloux may be the 6th.

 

[Deus ex machina]

For me, it's Xhekaj AND Struble, far ahead of Barron, who has the sharpened defensive reflexes Dumbchenyuk when playing in his own zone, circa playoffs against the Rags when we added Martinsen, Ott and King for our playoff run to please Julien.

I think that playing Guhle with Barronis a big mistake and a waste of Guhle's shutdown skills as seen tonight against McDavid.

I think a D from outside the system will need to be acquired to play with Hutson, but the type of D that can insulate and protect Hutson is easier to acquire on the UFA front, or via at rade.

Guhle - Reinbacher
Hutson - UFA/Trade Acquisition
Xhekaj- Mailloux
Struble

Even Hutson plays tougher/harder than Harris and Barron.

That D will be 5/6 physical, 6/7 if you consider Struble as the 7th D.

When Guhle-Reinbacher play a more shutdown brand of D against offensive powerhouses during the regular season and throughout the playoffs, we can get some offense from a pairing with Hutson and another with Mailloux.

Barron and Harris will not be missed.

Hopefully, Barron can clinch a trade proposal if he is added to the mix.

You beat me to it but i think we pretty much agree on Barron.
It's like he's playing in slo-mo. And it's been that way since he's here. I might be wrong but i don't see that getting better.
It's just the way he is.

I think Struble is much more than a 7th though.
I don't dislike Harris but i don't think they can have both him and Hutson in the lineup at the same time.

 

[DAChampion]

I do wonder what Barron and Harris would fetch on the trade market.

Now or perhaps next year.

 

[vokiel]

I do wonder what Barron and Harris would fetch on the trade market.

Now or perhaps next year.

Late picks and reclamation projects. Better offering them as usual: Barron, Allen & a 2nd, or Harris Allen & a 2nd.

 

[Pat Riot]

You beat me to it but i think we pretty much agree on Barron.
It's like he's playing in slo-mo. And it's been that way since he's here. I might be wrong but i don't see that getting better.
It's just the way he is.

I think Struble is much more than a 7th though.
I don't dislike Harris but i don't think they can have both him and Hutson in the lineup at the same time.

You really believe a defenseman with only one full season of experience in total cannot upgrade his defensive play while hes gaining more experience? Thats quite a ridiculous assesment IMO. The guy is only minus 4 while playing a lot of minutes especially when Savard was injured. Plus we beat some of the best team in the league with him playing a top 4 role

 

[Deus ex machina]

You really believe a defenseman with only one full season of experience in total cannot upgrade his defensive play while hes gaining more experience? Thats quite a ridiculous assesment IMO. The guy is only minus 4 while playing a lot of minutes especially when Savard was injured. Plus we beat some of the best team in the league with him playing a top 4 role

Sure, defensive play can be improved, but i'm not sure to what extent it can be with him.
Barron is now in his 3rd year pro. He's not that green anymore. Soon, he'll have to go through waivers to be sent down. Players pretty much lose their value when they reach that stage and they're still not established in the NHL.

Like i wrote earlier, he's still soft and looks like he plays in slo-mo. It's just the way he's always been.

I just don't see a fit with all the other good D prospects they have.

 

[jrom]

If Barron was LD he would be on every HF Habs trade proposal

 

[le_sean]

You really believe a defenseman with only one full season of experience in total cannot upgrade his defensive play while hes gaining more experience? Thats quite a ridiculous assesment IMO. The guy is only minus 4 while playing a lot of minutes especially when Savard was injured. Plus we beat some of the best team in the league with him playing a top 4 role

+\- is a terrible metric to use. Unless you think Kovacevic is our best defensive defenceman and that Evans>>Suzuki defensively.

 

[LaP]

+\- is a terrible metric to use. Unless you think Kovacevic is our best defensive defenceman and that Evans>>Suzuki defensively.

+/- is not a defensive stats. I'm puzzled this argument still needs to be made in 2024. +/- is the differential between the offensive game of a 5 players unit and the defensive game of a 5 players unit. In a small sample size +/- is totally useless because its more a team stats than a player stats.

Over a long period of time when a player played with enough different players for a long enough period of time it starts to show which players are dominant and which ones are not. Still flawed like all stats but a picture starts to be drawn. But you don't know how the player is dominant. He could be dominant offensively or defensively or both.

But a player don't spend a career being in the positive every seasons without being a dominant player on the ice making the difference either with his offensive game or defensive game. But again it's a team stats so possible for an average player to spend a whole career with a good team and be in the positive every season. Context matters with stats all of them including advanced stats. I mean some Jays fans last season argued Belt was a better player than Vlad because of advanced stats ...

 

[Pat Riot]

+\- is a terrible metric to use. Unless you think Kovacevic is our best defensive defenceman and that Evans>>Suzuki defensively.

Its not everything but its a metric. Suzuki face tougher match up and play way more minutes than Evans so thats a really bad example. But for defensemen I think that metric hold more weight. Hes not -20 so you can tell hes holding his own. And Kovacevic has no offensive flair but its pretty easy to see while watching the game that he is indeed very good defensively.

If Barron was LD he would be on every HF Habs trade proposal

Of course he would we have a logjam of LD but we are so thin on RD. Thats why Im willing to give him more time to see if he can progress

 

[le_sean]

Its not everything but its a metric. Suzuki face tougher match up and play way more minutes than Evans so thats a really bad example. But for defensemen I think that metric hold more weight. Hes not -20 so you can tell hes holding his own. And Kovacevic has no offensive flair but its pretty easy to see while watching the game that he is indeed very good defensively.

If you think Kovacevic is good defensively then I have a bridge to sell you

 

[Pat Riot]

If you think Kovacevic is good defensively then I have a bridge to sell you

Hes a third pair defenseman, not a trophy norris canditate. I think you need to lower your expectation. For a 3rd pair defenseman Im saying hes doing an honest job defensively yeah

With a salary under one million per season hes a perfect 7th defenseman with a good attitude. I have no problem keeping him to play that role

 

[Runner77]

If Barron was LD he would be on every HF Habs trade proposal

Actually, he should be if it’s deemed his ceiling is low and they’re not liking how he’s been progressing. If Ghule can play RD (remains to be seen), then Barron’s handedness would be one of the features making him marketable (plus skating, size, age).

 

[LaP]

Hes a third pair defenseman, not a trophy norris canditate. I think you need to lower your expectation. For a 3rd pair defenseman Im saying hes doing an honest job defensively yeah

With a salary under one million per season hes a perfect 7th defenseman with a good attitude. I have no problem keeping him to play that role

Realistically on a contending team he is a 7th dman. A good 7th dman but still a 7th dman.

 

[Pat Riot]

Realistically on a contending team he is a 7th dman. A good 7th dman but still a 7th dman.

Yes I agree. But I still think we can say he is responsible defensively. Plus he has size so he doesnt get push around and can clean the front of the net

 

[yianik]

Having only physical Ds seems like a bad idea too. Chiarot Edmundson Savard makes it really hard to get the puck ut. Let s see how Strubble develops

If MB hadn't been fixated on huge , physical Ds and had added a PMD, like Devon Toews, we likely would have at least put up a better fight against Tampa.

You need a bit of everything.

 

[LaP]

If MB hadn't been fixated on huge , physical Ds and had added a PMD, like Devon Toews, we likely would have at least put up a better fight against Tampa.

You need a bit of everything.

Against TB in 2014-2015? It was more a skills issues than anything else. The defense in was :

Subban
Markov
Petry
Emelin
Gilbert
Pateryn
Weaver
Beaulieu

I mean let be honest here. Top 3 is very solid. After that a whole lot of nothing. Emelin was a 3rd pairing guy. Gilbert was a bargain bin offensive dman at the end of his career. At this point of his career he was neither good offensively nor defensively. Mike Weaver was a career journeyman 7th dman who was on the verge of retirement. Same for Patheryn and Beaulieu but they were younger than Weaver. Basically a solid top 3 + a 3rd pairing guy + an over the hill vet who was not very good in his prime and three 7th dman.

 

[domiwroze]

Talking about a +/- metric, Gallagher is by far our worst player on the ice presenting a solid -19.
Followed by Anderson with -10.

I wouldn't mind if marty sat his ass for a couple of games.

 

[Tyson]

Talking about a +/- metric, Gallagher is by far our worst player on the ice presenting a solid -19.
Followed by Anderson with -10.

I wouldn't mind if marty sat his ass for a couple of games.

It has become obvious that Gallagher has nothing left to offer hockey wise. What a conundrum for Hughes and company.

 

[The Great Weal]

Talking about a +/- metric, Gallagher is by far our worst player on the ice presenting a solid -19.
Followed by Anderson with -10.

I wouldn't mind if marty sat his ass for a couple of games.

It's pretty pathetic that MSL is too scared to scratch Gallagher. He does nothing at the NHL level and takes the worst penalties. I don't even know how he's on the 2nd unit PP.

 

[domiwroze]

It has become obvious that Gallagher has nothing left to offer hockey wise. What a conundrum for Hughes and company.

Not sure if the information on Capfriendly is accurate but to buy him out at the end of the year it would be 6 years at 2.166M.

I'd consider that over the next 3 years of 6.5M plus the negative impact on the ice that he brings.

 

[Tyson]

Not sure if the information on Capfriendly is accurate but to buy him out at the end of the year it would be 6 years at 2.166M.

I'd consider that over the next 3 years of 6.5M plus the negative impact on the ice that he brings.

It has to be considered. This can't continue