HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[ML16]

If we did acquire Lafrenière, it would have to be for something like a young D and CAL's 1st round pick, or Anderson at 2.75M - 3M, plus tweaking the trade to make the salaries fit.

Montreal would become that much younger, but not insanely so.

I put Lafrenière on a second line with Slafkovsky and Newhook toggle him more ice time than in New York, but less responsibilities than by playing with Caufield and Suzuki in a first line role against the opponents' best players.

That and playing Caufield andSuzuki with a veteran like Monahan best addresses the continued development of Caufield, Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Newhook AND Lafrenière.

Next year, or by the trade deadline, if we move Monahan, Lafrenière could be considered to play with Caufield and Suzuki, although, ultimately, the ideal candidate should come to be Slafkovsky, if the hockey IQ proves to be a match (that could stile a few years off, though, as Slafkovsky gains more experience and matures into his large frame).

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan
Slafkovsky - Newhook - Lafrenière
RHP - Dvorak - Roy (if Anderson traded for Lafrenière)
Pearson - Evans - Ylonen
*Gallagher*, *Pezzetta*

Caufield and Suzuki get the winger that can help them take the next step forward, Lafrenière plays on his off side to maximize exploiting his shot. Roy comes up from Laval with less pressure in a two-way, 3rd line role. Win-Win-Win.

I think it’s safe to assume the Habs wouldn’t subsidise 50% of Anderson’s salary for the remainder of its term, so acquiring Lafrenière would rather have to be via sending a young D + 1st round pick (or maybe 2 x 2nd is one is early enough?) to New York.

The crux of the issue is which 1st round pick; as it stands, CGY’s 2025 1st is indeed the only viable, but still suboptimal option.

The optimal option appears to be for the Habs to first acquire another 1st in #20-32 range - trading Monahan at TDL for instance - then include this pick in a package for Lafrenière.

As for the next years’ line, I mostly concur with your assessment, and would add that besides Dach and Roy, the top-9 should also be substantially bolstered by the addition of an elite talent considering the Habs are now strong contenders for another top-5 pick.

And we should also see some rebuild-defining moments on D that same year, with crucial decisions as to which ELC/RFAs to keep - and which to sell to further bolster the F corps and, more importantly, the G department.

 

[bcv]

2 high draft picks = 2 years of rebuilding

Trading 1st and 3rd round picks for Christian Dvorak, and paying the most money to players than any team in the league, screams rebuild, obviously.

 

[Habbietat]

Trading 1st and 3rd round picks for Christian Dvorak, and paying the most money to players than any team in the league, screams rebuild, obviously.

that trade was before the season, couple months later toffoli was traded for a 1st and heinemen, while we tanked to first overall, yeah screams rebuild

 

[bcv]

that trade was before the season, couple months later toffoli was traded for a 1st and Barron, while we tanked to first overall, yeah screams rebuild

Who was in charge of the team at the beginning of that year and what was his plan for the year? Let me fill you in : It was Bergevin and the plan was to make the playoffs. The team went to the stanley cup finals the year before, you think the team would be rebuild mode after that?

Every year teams sell players, are all those teams doing a rebuild?

 

[Habbietat]

Who was in charge of the team at the beginning of that year and what was his plan for the year? Let me fill you in : It was Bergevin and the plan was to make the playoffs. The team went to the stanley cup finals the year before, you think the team would be rebuild mode after that?

Every year teams sell players, are all those teams doing a rebuild?

does every team get a 1st overall pick? Like does it matter what you intend to do when you end up getting all the high draft picks? You make no sense

 

[bcv]

does every team get a 1st overall pick? Like does it matter what you intend to do when you end up getting all the high draft picks? You make no sense

A rebuild doesn't happen by fumbling onto it, especially not in a market like Montreal that has pushed back doing one as long as they could. It happens once the team that that's the direction they want to take. So, yes it does matter what you intend to do.

If you build a team in the hopes of making the playoffs and end up with the 1st overall pick, I call that malpractice, not a rebuild.

Call it whatever you want, though,

 

[Habbietat]

still en

A rebuild doesn't happen by fumbling onto it, especially not in a market like Montreal that has pushed back doing one as long as they could. It happens once the team that that's the direction they want to take. So, yes it does matter what you intend to do.

If you build a team in the hopes of making the playoffs and end up with the 1st overall pick, I call that malpractice, not a rebuild.

still the same end result, which was known like 2 weeks into the season, so its not like we were tricked into thinking they were going to make it, they sold hard and tanked for that pick after a quick shift and people will refer to Slaf as part of the rebuild anyways so I dont get arguing this point

 

[bcv]

still en

still the same end result, which was known like 2 weeks into the season, so its not like we were tricked into thinking they were going to make it, they sold hard and tanked for that pick after a quick shift and people will refer to Slaf as part of the rebuild anyways so I dont get arguing this point

ok buddy

 

[WeThreeKings]

Rebuilds work if you sink to the bottom and get Crosby,Malkin,Fleury and Ovechkin,Backstrom and Toews and Kane.

You might wanna check how long those teams were at the bottom before they accumulated those players.

Hint: it wasn't 2 seasons.

2 high draft picks = 2 years of rebuilding

They went into the season trying to compete and then Bergevin got fired. Hence the .5. This is year 2 where the GM went into the year expecting to rebuild.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

You might wanna check how long those teams were at the bottom before they accumulated those players.

Hint: it wasn't 2 seasons.

Yes it was in Washington's case. Made the playoffs in '03, missed in '04 and '06 to get their guys. Made the playoffs in '08.

Pittsburgh's finances were in utter shambles as well but lost out big in '03 and '04 to get Fleury-Malkin. '05 was lockout, got Crosby and tried to make the playoffs as soon as they had him by signing a ton of vets. So that's two seasons as well, actually.

 

[Scriptor]

I did? "I think this leaves 7.1375M to let Cap space accrue throughout the year (for a big facilitating position at the trade deadline and to avoid paying potential bonuses next season)"

Montreal already has cap space leeway they may need this season.

Yeah, I think I messed up since Price's Cap will count against the Cap on regular IR and won't be accruing any Cap space.

A rebuild usually takes around 5 years. There's still at least 2 years left. Kids who pan out at 18 are extremely rare. There's many years where there's not a single one in an entire draft. They usually take around 3+ years to reach their offensive prime and a good 5+ years to reach their defensive prime.

Way too generous. The kids who pan out at 18 still need three years to reach a semblance of their offensive prime. That does not apply to those who do not pan out at 18. The better one outhouse will reach that offensive prime at 23, 24, 25, or later. The defensive prime should be at a similar intervalic those instances, if they invest in that part of their game as well.

 

[Scriptor]

I think it’s safe to assume the Habs wouldn’t subsidise 50% of Anderson’s salary for the remainder of its term, so acquiring Lafrenière would rather have to be via sending a young D + 1st round pick (or maybe 2 x 2nd is one is early enough?) to New York.

The crux of the issue is which 1st round pick; as it stands, CGY’s 2025 1st is indeed the only viable, but still suboptimal option.

The optimal option appears to be for the Habs to first acquire another 1st in #20-32 range - trading Monahan at TDL for instance - then include this pick in a package for Lafrenière.

As for the next years’ line, I mostly concur with your assessment, and would add that besides Dach and Roy, the top-9 should also be substantially bolstered by the addition of an elite talent considering the Habs are now strong contenders for another top-5 pick.

And we should also see some rebuild-defining moments on D that same year, with crucial decisions as to which ELC/RFAs to keep - and which to sell to further bolster the F corps and, more importantly, the G department.

It's funny because, while we might not want to hold back Cap space in a trade of Anderson for Lafrenière, trading Anderson might still be the way to acquire Lafrenière -- In a scenario where we trade Anderson for a late first and a prospect without salary retention (maybe accepting a shorter bad contract for the current year in exchange)?

 

[calder candidate]

That roster went to cup finals year before.

didn’t we lost Danault, KK, Perry, Tatar during the summer than we lost Price and Weber to injury/retirement and we also had guy injured to start the season and we brought it Hoffman… If you lose 4 top 9 player, a top 4 D and starting goalie not sure it the same roster…

 

[ML16]

It's funny because, while we might not want to hold back Cap space in a trade of Anderson for Lafrenière, trading Anderson might still be the way to acquire Lafrenière -- In a scenario where we trade Anderson for a late first and a prospect without salary retention (maybe accepting a shorter bad contract for the current year in exchange)?

I think once the salary cap unfrozes, Anderson shouldn’t be too hard to move without retention, all the while fetching interesting assets; 5.5M could promptly become the norm for veteran middle-6 wingers with term.

 

[morhilane]

I think once the salary cap unfrozes, Anderson shouldn’t be too hard to move without retention, all the while fetching interesting assets; 5.5M could promptly become the norm for veteran middle-6 wingers with term.

That is if he doesn't destroy his trade value this season... *finger crossed*

 

[therocket9]

You might wanna check how long those teams were at the bottom before they accumulated those players.

Hint: it wasn't 2 seasons.



They went into the season trying to compete and then Bergevin got fired. Hence the .5. This is year 2 where the GM went into the year expecting to rebuild.

Yes of course you have to be bad one of the 5 worst teams in hockey for many years and they have to have generational players otherwise they is no use being bad and missing the playoffs.

 

[Andy]

Yes it was in Washington's case. Made the playoffs in '03, missed in '04 and '06 to get their guys. Made the playoffs in '08.

Pittsburgh's finances were in utter shambles as well but lost out big in '03 and '04 to get Fleury-Malkin. '05 was lockout, got Crosby and tried to make the playoffs as soon as they had him by signing a ton of vets. So that's two seasons as well, actually.

Now do Edmonton, Buffalo, Toronto, Colorado, New Jersey.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Now do Edmonton, Buffalo, Toronto, Colorado, New Jersey.

I would not look at Edmonton, Buffalo or New Jersey as successful rebuilds.

They took over ten years. All Edmonton has to show for it is the worst Conference Finals performance we've seen in God knows how long. Buffalo hasn't even made the playoffs yet and have been losing for 12 years across multiple rebuilds. New Jersey are awesome but they were also in the abyss for a decade. That's not something to point to as a success.

By the way, when did Toronto rip it apart? 2014? 2015? They were in the playoffs by what, 2017?

What about Tampa or Chicago? They never even rebuilt in the traditional sense. They just sucked while trying to compete, got Stamkos and Hedman and became beasts while keeping everyone. Only trading Richards to try and get a starting goalie.

 

[Andy]

I would not look at Edmonton, Buffalo or New Jersey as successful rebuilds.

They took over ten years. All Edmonton has to show for it is the worst Conference Finals performance we've seen in God knows how long. Buffalo hasn't even made the playoffs yet and have been losing for 12 years across multiple rebuilds. New Jersey are awesome but they were also in the abyss for a decade. That's not something to point to as a success.

By the way, when did Toronto rip it apart? 2014? 2015? They were in the playoffs by what, 2017?

What about Tampa or Chicago? They never even rebuilt in the traditional sense. They just sucked while trying to compete, got Stamkos and Hedman and became beasts while keeping everyone. Only trading Richards to try and get a starting goalie.

Just for the record, I agree with you.

Also for Toronto: no official tear it apart, but they missed the playoffs 9/10 times between 2006 and 2016.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Just for the record, I agree with you.

Also for Toronto: no official tear it apart, but they missed the playoffs 9/10 times between 2006 and 2016.

Yeah, Toronto were just a trash heap that would finish 10th in the conference every year pretty much.

 

[DiglettDangles]

I filtered for bad-value players with contracts expiring this summer, that we could take on during Dach's injury since we're tanking.
I excluded players from flat-out bad teams, and players on LTIR à la Bryan Little because their negative impact has already been mitigated.
I didn't bother checking below Kubalik (salary filter), a player from a team that needs urgent cap space and would still probably not spend an asset that we would consider valuable enough.

My conclusion is that I don't think we can get much by renting our cap space for 2023-2024 only.
Mayyyybe for Mantha and/or Roslovic if their team is desperate to target the wildcard spot in Jan.
Marchessault would at least make the team interesting again if the price is low, and assuming Vegas continues with their habit of shunning their MVPs.

PLAYER	TRADE	AAV	COMMENTS
Myers	NTC	6.000	Hoping for cap relief but not bury-terrible and might want value back
Mantha		5.700	We should know quickly if the Caps look playoff-bound or not
Marchessault	NTC	5.000	Reportedly disposable (Vegas amirite)
Olofsson		4.750	Unidimensional, better options in BUF
Beauvillier		4.150	Don't think they actively want him out
Roslovic		4.000	They'll probably just ride him out as playoffs are wishful thinking
Carter	NMC	3.125	NMC, and I don't know how much better they could get without him
Duchene		3.000	If considered a flop by Xmas
Foegele		2.750	Don't think they actively want him out
Kubalik		2.500	Return likely <2nd round pick so pointless

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I will throw one name that I could find interesting with the absence of Dach for the season if we can acquire him for some spare parts or low draft pick.

Alex Turcotte

Los Angeles have plenty of centerman and might look to trade him if they can get instant help.

He played with Caufield at Wisconsin and maybe Martin St. Louis could do magic by reviving his career.

 

[yianik]

Four D prospects!? Are you nuts?

Lol............

 

[kinghock]

I will throw one name that I could find interesting with the absence of Dach for the season if we can acquire him for some spare parts or low draft pick.

Alex Turcotte

Los Angeles have plenty of centerman and might look to trade him if they can get instant help.

He played with Caufield at Wisconsin and maybe Martin St. Louis could do magic by reviving his career.

Turcotte is resurrecting his career now.

He looked great during preseason and now looking great playing in AHL.

I believe he will get his chance to play for Kings this season.

If Montreal wants to trade for him, they need to propose something Kings really need.

LA do not need any forwards or defenders.

Their only need is really good young goalie.

I do not believe Montreal has this for trade.

LA and Montreal are not good trading partners at the moment…

 

[Ezpz]

This is more deflating than Desharnais being extended. I think we should trade Savard ASAP and let the growing pains happen. Get Barron in there (granted he will be now that Guhle is out), get Norlinder up.

f*** it, call up Mesar. Nobody is talented enough in the OHL to play with him because he is a hockey genius the likes of which the world has never seen so let him play in the NHL.

Trade Savard though wasting our valuable development minutes when we've got a bunch of RD (and LD that play right) that need time to decide which one is getting booted for Reinbacher (who is also injured).

Shut down Nick for the year as a precautionary measure that he may get injured since he's been the only one to avoid the curse thus far.

But trade Savard seriously.