HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[RationalExpectations]

Heineken vs Becks: Which is Better? - High Stool Beer

In this post, we compare Heineken vs Becks. We discuss taste profiles, calories and overall branding of each one. Which one is better? Find out here

highstoolbeer.com

If anybody thinks Heineken is better than Beck s, they know nothing about beer.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It may be worth doing Tanner Pearson 50% retained for AHL Gurianov, if for no other reason than to give Ylonen and Heineman more ice time.

But Pearson at 50% retained has value, as opposed to Gurianov who has none. Pearson should get a draft pick at the deadline.

I was going to critique your idea but then you did it yourself. Pearson should fetch a better asset than a waived player if moved

a. at 50% retained with less time remaining in the season and​

b. by then, the contenders know exactly what they need.​

​

As for ice time, Heineman can be sent down so he will play no matter what. I don't care if Ylonen is a spare or plays less than others more worthy, after three years 'developing' in the amazing AHL.

 

[BaseballCoach]

No on the contrary it appears Heineman was specifically requested by the two teams who traded for him.

I liked his camp. He was able to play in many situations, including a physical edge to his game. He's not just a one trick pony with an elite shot.

I don't mind if he goes to Laval to begin the season, but if we didn't have guys like Armia and Gally blocking the way I think he would have a better chance at staying up.

Armia is not blocking the way. However, Heineman should only be here if he is in the starting lineup, so he has to beat out Ylonen and Pezzetta, and may still have to go down when Dvo returns while no one else gets hurt.

Gallagher has some value as a roster player, if healthy. Cap management is not MSL's concern.

 

[DAChampion]

If anybody thinks Heineken is better than Beck s, they know nothing about beer.

But does that also work for hockey?

The Habs need a third player who's a beer. That way they can form a line and maybe have one goal and two assists that are all beers.

 

[BaseballCoach]

if all he's worth is a 4th what's the point in holding on other than to bolster Laval? He's 23, and while he plays a smart game, he lacks size, physicality, plays no special teams and has a muffin shot.

Can Harris not forge a career at least as good as Josh Gorges? Harris has as many NHL points in his first 75 games as Gorges had in his first 15 games.

Do you think he stops developing at 23 while Kovacevic is still improving at 26?

I don't mind moving Harris or any of our LHD for the right value, but there is no reason to precipitate a quick trade for a lesser return.

 

[26Mats]

I was going to critique your idea but then you did it yourself. Pearson should fetch a better asset than a waived player if moved

a. at 50% retained with less time remaining in the season and​

b. by then, the contenders know exactly what they need.​

​

As for ice time, Heineman can be sent down so he will play no matter what. I don't care if Ylonen is a spare or plays less than others more worthy, after three years 'developing' in the amazing AHL.

Yeah, it depends on ones view of Ylonen's potential. It's a would you rather: Ylonen's development or a 4th or 5th round pick, maybe a better pick, maybe a worse pick.

But there will be injuries, so Ylonen sitting in the press box to start probably isn't the end of the world. Though Dvo is coming back shortly into the season. So there would have to be two or three injuries as of now to get Ylonen in the lineup. And, if we're healthy when Dvo comes back, we need to waive one of Pez, Ylonen, or Armia.

 

[Ezpz]

Yeah, it depends on ones view of Ylonen's potential. It's a would you rather: Ylonen's development or a 4th or 5th round pick, maybe a better pick, maybe a worse pick.

But there will be injuries, so Ylonen sitting in the press box to start probably isn't the end of the world. Though Dvo is coming back shortly into the season. So there would have to be two or three injuries as of now to get Ylonen in the lineup. And, if we're healthy when Dvo comes back, we need to waive one of Pez, Ylonen, or Armia.

I think Ylonen is in a spot where he really won't be gaining much in the AHL. He's put up similar but improving numbers three years in a row. Press box is fine. He's 24 and has played a lot of North American hockey at this point between the AHL and NHL. RHP clearly is here to stay despite being waiver exempt so Ylonen's got to wait for injuries. Heinemen will go down for a bit. I think Pearson's more likely to be cut than Armia. Everyone rags on Armia but I'd much rather Armia on the fourth line than Gally or Pearson who don't contribute defensively. Gally's not being waived for obvious reasons. Ironically, I don't think he's seen as a leader in the current core anymore and I don't think it would be as unpopular as it would have been a few years back.

It's a moot point though because I've never seen a healthy Habs lineup in my lifetime. We'll have 2-3 guys out at all times pretty much.

 

[26Mats]

I think Ylonen is in a spot where he really won't be gaining much in the AHL. He's put up similar but improving numbers three years in a row. Press box is fine. He's 24 and has played a lot of North American hockey at this point between the AHL and NHL. RHP clearly is here to stay despite being waiver exempt so Ylonen's got to wait for injuries. Heinemen will go down for a bit. I think Pearson's more likely to be cut than Armia. Everyone rags on Armia but I'd much rather Armia on the fourth line than Gally or Pearson who don't contribute defensively. Gally's not being waived for obvious reasons. Ironically, I don't think he's seen as a leader in the current core anymore and I don't think it would be as unpopular as it would have been a few years back.

It's a moot point though because I've never seen a healthy Habs lineup in my lifetime. We'll have 2-3 guys out at all times pretty much.

Yeah I was thinking the same about Ylonen after I posted. He can sit in the pressbox until there are injuries.

Norlinder though, IMO, shouldn't be sitting in the pressbox for long stretches. Last year was his first full season in a while. I'd rather him play a full season, and then next year be on the team if he isn't traded by then. Norlinder and Barron can be the top pair in Laval until there are injuries. Trudeau and Mailloux the second pair.

 

[Ezpz]

Yeah I was thinking the same about Ylonen after I posted. He can sit in the pressbox until there are injuries.

Norlinder though, IMO, shouldn't be sitting in the pressbox for long stretches. Last year was his first full season in a while. I'd rather him play a full season, and then next year be on the team if he isn't traded by then. Norlinder and Barron can be the top pair in Laval until there are injuries. Trudeau and Mailloux the second pair.

I also quickly (by my standards of researching shit for throwaway posts for ten minutes to four hours at a time) looked it up and the Habs were pretty healthy from 2011-2015 minus Markov. It's no wonder those were the best years in terms of our placement in the standings (minus 2012, the Markov injury really destroyed that team since they'd traded Wiz in the off-season). We were insanely healthy in the lockout-shortened season, which probably gave the illusion Therrien turned the team around moreso than Markov's return and the fact that we were the healthiest team in the league.

2012/13 team man-games lost plots
If you click Montreal it's interesting, the only top 6 player or top 4 dman that was injured at all was Patches 4 game recovery from emergency appendix removal.

2022/23 team man-games lost plots

Notes Cap Hit of Injured Players (CHIP) represents the per-game cap charge of a player missing a game through injury/...

nhlinjuryviz.blogspot.com

Then you look at last year.

2022/23 team injury stacks

Notes There will be inconsistency between my numbers and “official” team man-games lost (MGL) figures due to teams' ...

nhlinjuryviz.blogspot.com

Then you look at the injury stack and we led the league even when they discount Price and other LTIR players (except Lehner who is essentially retired and makes Vegas look more injured than they were). If you click the G "retired" ticker on the bottom right and apply we absolutely gapped the other teams in every category.

 

[Bottle Rocket]

Armia is not blocking the way. However, Heineman should only be here if he is in the starting lineup, so he has to beat out Ylonen and Pezzetta, and may still have to go down when Dvo returns while no one else gets hurt.

Gallagher has some value as a roster player, if healthy. Cap management is not MSL's concern.

Of course Armia is blocking the way. Unless you have him as your 13th or 14th forward all year long. Or in Laval. Every game he plays, someone doesn't. I believe this someone would have been Heineman every now and then. Ylonen, Heineman and Pezetta in a rotation depending on game needs is fine with me, sometimes two of them in the same game.

Throw-in Armia and you remove from others.

 

[26Mats]

Of course Armia is blocking the way. Unless you have him as your 13th or 14th forward all year long. Or in Laval. Every game he plays, someone doesn't. I believe this someone would have been Heineman every now and then. Ylonen, Heineman and Pezetta in a rotation depending on game needs is fine with me, sometimes two of them in the same game.

Throw-in Armia and you remove from others.

I'm ok with Heineman not making the top 12, because he can go to Laval. I'm less happy about Ylonen not making it, if it means him sitting in the pressbox for long stretches. We'll see what happens with injuries. But when Dvo comes back, if everyone is healthy we'll have 15 forwards, assuming we keep 14 to start.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Yeah I was thinking the same about Ylonen after I posted. He can sit in the pressbox until there are injuries.

Norlinder though, IMO, shouldn't be sitting in the pressbox for long stretches. Last year was his first full season in a while. I'd rather him play a full season, and then next year be on the team if he isn't traded by then. Norlinder and Barron can be the top pair in Laval until there are injuries. Trudeau and Mailloux the second pair.

Armia should be sitting on the pressbox, waive him and send him to Laval. You save a couple of bucks and voilà.

 

[bleuetbio]

Not sure if the blue shirts still have an interest on Harris, but its about time to get a return from him.

Dvorak, Harris and Mesar would be my pitch for Laff

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yeah, it depends on ones view of Ylonen's potential. It's a would you rather: Ylonen's development or a 4th or 5th round pick, maybe a better pick, maybe a worse pick.

But there will be injuries, so Ylonen sitting in the press box to start probably isn't the end of the world. Though Dvo is coming back shortly into the season. So there would have to be two or three injuries as of now to get Ylonen in the lineup. And, if we're healthy when Dvo comes back, we need to waive one of Pez, Ylonen, or Armia.

We had 31 players before Mailloux was cut.

Here is my current roster plan both before and after the deadline day shuffles:

First 19 players also on list for cap compliance (13-4-2):
Suzuki-Caufield-Newhook
Dach-Anderson-Slafkovsky
Monahan-Gallagher-Pearson
Evans-Pezzetta-HarveyPinard
Ylonen

Matheson-Kovacevic
Guhle-Savard

Montembeault
Primeau

3 Injured but on 22 man official waiver cap compliance roster Monday at 5pm:
Dvorak, Wideman (placed on IR Tuesday)
Price (placed on LTIR Tuesday)

2 Paper-demotions (return to Habs Tuesday):
Harris
Xhekaj

2 Paper-Waived (return to Habs Tuesday after not claimed):
Allen
Lindstrom

After these 4 players return, we will be at 23 not including 3 IR/LTIR but including
1 spare forward = Ylonen or Pezzetta
1 spare defenceman = Lindstrom
1 spare goalie = Primeau or Allen

4 Demoted (waiver-exempt, can return when injuries or demotions happen):
Heineman
Norlinder
Barron
Mailloux (already demoted but was told he is in potential callup group)

1 Regularly Waived:
Armia (assumed unclaimed, reports to Laval, can return to Habs when a F gets injured)

 

[Runner77]

But does that also work for hockey?

The Habs need a third player who's a beer. That way they can form a line and maybe have one goal and two assists that are all beers.

You mean, like this?

 

[BaseballCoach]

Of course Armia is blocking the way. Unless you have him as your 13th or 14th forward all year long. Or in Laval. Every game he plays, someone doesn't. I believe this someone would have been Heineman every now and then. Ylonen, Heineman and Pezetta in a rotation depending on game needs is fine with me, sometimes two of them in the same game.

Throw-in Armia and you remove from others.

Well of course every player takes up some minutes, unless he is a spare. If Armia untradeable and stays as a spare in Montreal, and the club wants to keep Pezzetta, then Ylonen is waived, traded, lost, something.

Better for Armia to be in Laval playing a 3rd line role, no PP time, leaving the prime offensive minutes to Roy, Heineman, Farrell and others as merited. Or if there is an injury to a F, Armia is the FIRST guy brought up to take the pressbox role. I never want an ELC player to sit out, and I would prefer Ylonen play over Armia.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'm ok with Heineman not making the top 12, because he can go to Laval. I'm less happy about Ylonen not making it, if it means him sitting in the pressbox for long stretches. We'll see what happens with injuries. But when Dvo comes back, if everyone is healthy we'll have 15 forwards, assuming we keep 14 to start.

Ylonen won't make the top-12 even without Armia in his way. Pezzetta is 12th with Dvo out and everyone else healthy.

 

[DAChampion]

You mean, like this?

Another one:

https://www.monde-selection.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/1037059.png

 

[BoneHutson]

I think we can get more for Barron than using him to help dump Armia.

He is a former 25th OA pick who scored 15 points in 39 games in his rookie NHL seaswn as a RHD. Waiver exempt.

Armia's contract for this year is no longer a burden once Price goes on LTIR after Monday.

One year of cap relief of $2.3M (amount of hit if we bury Armia next year). That's not enough to give up on a player with Barron's profile to date.

We need a deal to address more of our needs.

The only way I would do a deal that attaches Barron to Armia is if the pick coming back were a first. If the other team requires cap back, I would take a THIS-YEAR-only cap dump along with a B level goalie prospect still on ELC for next year.

Armia
Barron
3rd or later round pick (only if pick coming back is 2024)

1st round pick 2024 or 2025
Cap dump 2023-24 (expiring) of up to $5M
B level goalie prospect aged 18-21 by year end.

VAN: Barron + Dvorak

MTL: Beauvillier + 1st RD pick 2024 (top 10 protect)

 

[BoneHutson]

And Hughes should try everything he can to get Askarov. Wether it passes by trading Anderson and including the assets acquired for him in the trade for Askarov OR even trading our own (protected) first. Let him cook in Laval with our stacked team, while the NHL team sucks enough to land us one of Celebrini, Catton, Eiserman…

 

[Guy Larose]

Not sure if the blue shirts still have an interest on Harris, but its about time to get a return from him.

Dvorak, Harris and Mesar would be my pitch for Laff

Where do you people come up with this shit? They were never interested in Harris, you just made that up or reading too much fan speculation.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Not sure if the blue shirts still have an interest on Harris, but its about time to get a return from him.

Dvorak, Harris and Mesar would be my pitch for Laff

way too much for lafreniere

 

[Miller Time]

way too much for lafreniere

& I doubt the Rangers would have any interest in Dvorak.

 

[YukonCornelius 5thOA]

Heineken vs Becks: Which is Better? - High Stool Beer

In this post, we compare Heineken vs Becks. We discuss taste profiles, calories and overall branding of each one. Which one is better? Find out here

highstoolbeer.com

Beck's is way better, but still not great.

I am almost at 1 year booze free.

 

[26Mats]

VAN: Barron + Dvorak

MTL: Beauvillier + 1st RD pick 2024 (top 10 protect)

I like it. I would retain 50% on Dvo.

But I don't think Barron has that kind of value.