HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[Lafleurs Guy]

The Habs traded Romanov, a 3rd and a 4th for Dach, and traded a late 1st and an early 2nd for Newhook, which is around what a rental middle 6 center typically costs. That is not significant draft capital. This is not the same as, say, trading your only blue chip prospect + for Drouin and immediately making him your highest paid forward. Slafkovsky was and is an investment, but he's also much earlier in the development curve.

But more importantly, THAT GROUP OF PLAYERS IS NOT THE FORWARD CORE. If we're identifying the forward core, its Suzuki and Caufield. Maybe Slafkovsky too, but the organization has gone out of its way to say that his development will take time since he's been drafted, so its more that they believe he will be part of the forward core in the future. But Suzuki and Caufield are the guys who have big money, term and responsibility.

I know you view Montreal's situation as being more urgent than it actually is (the next GM will have to restart and rebuild?), but I don't know why you think that's the forward core other than draft pedigree. Hughes hasn't said its the core, MSL hasn't said that's the core, Gorton hasn't said that's the core, and Molson hasn't said that's the core. Newhook hasn't even played a regular season game with the Habs yet.

I don't diagree that you need a lot of productive players to be a legitimate contender, I'm just not sure why you assume those are THE 5 guys at forward are who the organization is betting on. The organization is still in the looking for guys who can be core players and giving them an opportunity to become a core player stage. Those are the likliest candidates, but it could be Roy, it could be RHP, it could be whichever young guy can establish themselves as a difference maker at the NHL level. That's not just happening at forward either, its happening at D too, its just that most of the guys with draft pedigree at D aren't in the NHL yet. But they're looking for people among Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj, Barron, etc. to step up too. And they'll continue adding guys to compete (and may change guys depending on fit and what trades are out there), but they aren't annointing a core.

Well said.

To me, Caufiled is the only blue chip star up front that we have right now. He may not be a superstar (we’ll see) but he should be good for at least 40 goals a year.

That leaves some very good but not great forwards along with some wait and see prospects. I’m hopeful on Slaf and Dach. We’ll see where that goes. Roy is really interesting. I don’t know if his game will translate but he’s got great offensive instincts. The cupboard isn’t bare.

We’re likely a bottom third team again this year and I’m pretty sure we’ll be dealing some blueliners for forwards in the future. I’m not sure why anyone would suggest we’re going with what we’ve got now for the foreseeable future. We’ve got a long way to go on this rebuild.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think he is another Drouin. Q can fool ya

This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy. The Rangers never gave him a chance. So was he really not that great or was it development? The fact that we don’t know is a damning indictment on the Rangers.

It’s also interesting that they had TWO highly touted prospects underperform.

Maybe Laf was never that good. But man, you’d think they’d have given him a shot to prove himself.

 

[Lockin17]

Would you guys do :

MTL : RHP + 2nd pick 2024 (avs) + Primeau
for
NYR : Laf

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Would you guys do :

MTL : RHP + 2nd pick 2024 (avs) + Primeau
for
NYR : Laf

I don't think NY takes that.

 

[Ezpz]

Would you guys do :

MTL : RHP + 2nd pick 2024 (avs) + Primeau
for
NYR : Laf

No. Laf has shown less than RHP. RHP was a goal or two off from him last year year in 50-something less games. He passes the eye test where Laf does not. Take out RHP and add a warm body like Ylonen. Four years post-draft you don't keep your first overall value when you've had an extremely rough start to your career. On top of that he's stuck behind Panarin and Kreider so there's not much room for him to play his way into a higher return. I think they probably offered for Laf before going to Newhook.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Well said.

To me, Caufiled is the only blue chip star up front that we have right now. He may not be a superstar (we’ll see) but he should be good for at least 40 goals a year.

That leaves some very good but not great forwards along with some wait and see prospects. I’m hopeful on Slaf and Dach. We’ll see where that goes. Roy is really interesting. I don’t know if his game will translate but he’s got great offensive instincts. The cupboard isn’t bare.

We’re likely a bottom third team again this year and I’m pretty sure we’ll be dealing some blueliners for forwards in the future. I’m not sure why anyone would suggest we’re going with what we’ve got now for the foreseeable future. We’ve got a long way to go on this rebuild.

I don't know how long the way to go is, but its not like they're going to be a playoff team in 2025. This season is about health, skill development and chemistry.

To get back on topic, management needs to know what they have to determine what they need and what/who they can trade to get what they need.

Would you guys do :

MTL : RHP + 2nd pick 2024 (avs) + Primeau
for
NYR : Laf

Sure? I like RHP, but I'd still gamble on Laf at that cost considering he still hasn't gotten a real shot on the PP/top-6. Rangers would NEVER go for it though.

 

[ReHabs]

No. Laf has shown less than RHP. RHP was a goal or two off from him last year year in 50-something less games. He passes the eye test where Laf does not. Take out RHP and add a warm body like Ylonen. Four years post-draft you don't keep your first overall value when you've had an extremely rough start to your career. On top of that he's stuck behind Panarin and Kreider so there's not much room for him to play his way into a higher return. I think they probably offered for Laf before going to Newhook.

Do you think Laf would produce more in a more prominent role? RHP was given prime TOI and line-mates, given all the injuries.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't know how long the way to go is, but its not like they're going to be a playoff team in 2025. This season is about health, skill development and chemistry.

To get back on topic, management needs to know what they have to determine what they need and what/who they can trade to get what they need.



Sure? I like RHP, but I'd still gamble on Laf at that cost considering he still hasn't gotten a real shot on the PP/top-6. Rangers would NEVER go for it though.

People don't seem to understand that rebuilds take longer than a year and a half. Some prospects pan out and some don't. But you stay the course and continue to add picks/prospects along the way.

Hopefully you strike gold with some later picks too. Roy and Hutson will hopefully be among those... But we're not going to know for a while.

 

[ML16]

Well said.

To me, Caufiled is the only blue chip star up front that we have right now. He may not be a superstar (we’ll see) but he should be good for at least 40 goals a year.

That leaves some very good but not great forwards along with some wait and see prospects. I’m hopeful on Slaf and Dach. We’ll see where that goes. Roy is really interesting. I don’t know if his game will translate but he’s got great offensive instincts. The cupboard isn’t bare.

We’re likely a bottom third team again this year and I’m pretty sure we’ll be dealing some blueliners for forwards in the future. I’m not sure why anyone would suggest we’re going with what we’ve got now for the foreseeable future. We’ve got a long way to go on this rebuild.

I don’t necessarily think the Habs have a long way to go; even though I agree they’ll still likely be a bottom-12 team this season, I think we could actually see them steadily climb in the standings sooner than later - I indeed deem that the Habs have the assets to crystallise their emerging contending core as soon as the 2025 offseason.

 

[Ezpz]

Do you think Laf would produce more in a more prominent role? RHP was given prime TOI and line-mates, given all the injuries.

They put Kreider and Panarin on the same line for a while, I don't think Laf showed anything any time he got PP or top six minutes. Kakko at least passes the eye test while not taking steps forward. Laf's hockey IQ doesn't appear to exist at the NHL level, despite many saying it was one of his strengths in junior. He was possibly the oldest player in the 2020 draft too and had a grown man's body even in his D-1, playing in the least physical junior league.

I do think on a line with Suzuki and Caufield that Lafreniere could still become a first line player. I just don't want to overpay for potential, it has traditionally bitten the Habs in the ass. Laf could easily just be another Drouin situation. Drouin showed flashes in the playoffs too and everyone was convinced he'd be a star here, I was worried in the 2022 off-season we'd overpay for him after he had that decent showing. This past season he was a non-factor in the playoffs. I think the Rangers will move on as they're not a club that rebuilds. They fired Gorton and hastened their timeline because it wasn't popular (the Wilson thing was a silly excuse).

Anyways, I just really like RHP. He puts everything into his game and had to work hard to get to where he is. I want to discount him constantly but I'm impressed each time I watch him. I think he's going to have a pretty good 6-7 years. I think his value is also intangible like Gallagher used to be, guys see players who work like that and it inspires them to bust their ass a little harder.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don’t necessarily think the Habs have a long way to go; even though I agree they’ll still likely be a bottom-12 team this season, I think we could actually see them steadily climb in the standings sooner than later - I indeed deem that the Habs have the assets to crystallise their emerging contending core as soon as the 2025 offseason.

We've got some really promising prospects. If some pan out or reach their ceiling? We could be a great club. But not all of them will (maybe none will) and we won't know for a while. Hutson for example probably won't even be with the big club for at least another year. RB may be a couple of years away as well.

In 2013 we thought we'd be a bottom feeder but our young players overperformed. That could happen again but I don't think it's this year. What matters now is that guys develop, improve, learn... I don't really care about that stats. The only stat watching I'm really going to look at this year is Caufield going towards 50 goals.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They put Kreider and Panarin on the same line for a while, I don't think Laf showed anything any time he got PP or top six minutes. Kakko at least passes the eye test while not taking steps forward. Laf's hockey IQ doesn't appear to exist at the NHL level, despite many saying it was one of his strengths in junior. He was possibly the oldest player in the 2020 draft too and had a grown man's body even in his D-1, playing in the least physical junior league.

I do think on a line with Suzuki and Caufield that Lafreniere could still become a first line player. I just don't want to overpay for potential, it has traditionally bitten the Habs in the ass. Laf could easily just be another Drouin situation. Drouin showed flashes in the playoffs too and everyone was convinced he'd be a star here, I was worried in the 2022 off-season we'd overpay for him after he had that decent showing. This past season he was a non-factor in the playoffs. I think the Rangers will move on as they're not a club that rebuilds. They fired Gorton and hastened their timeline because it wasn't popular (the Wilson thing was a silly excuse).

Anyways, I just really like RHP. He puts everything into his game and had to work hard to get to where he is. I want to discount him constantly but I'm impressed each time I watch him. I think he's going to have a pretty good 6-7 years. I think his value is also intangible like Gallagher used to be, guys see players who work like that and it inspires them to bust their ass a little harder.

I haven't watched Laf that much but I've made a point of watching some Rangers games to see what he's all about. To be honest, I didn't notice him at all.

I'm all for trading for underperforming young players in the hopes of reviving their careers but with him I just don't know now. Esp since I think the Rangers probably still want a premium for him.

 

[Ezpz]

I haven't watched Laf that much but I've made a point of watching some Rangers games to see what he's all about. To be honest, I didn't notice him at all.

I'm all for trading for underperforming young players in the hopes of reviving their careers but with him I just don't know now. Esp since I think the Rangers probably still want a premium for him.

That's why it won't happen. Gorton won't bet on Laf twice. Laf hasn't been able to translate any of his projectable skills to the NHL level and his skating is fairly average. Rangers retooled but they also didn't want to miss the playoffs so they kept hiring win-now coaches. Gallant was never going to develop their young guys, nor was he brought in for that. Laviolette is even worse for that, but he does tend to run systems that inflate offensive numbers.

The Rangers fans and owner probably look at Laf and cry they didn't get Stutzle (Who was my first overall for the simple reason that I always put German players ten spots higher than they deserve). Kakko over ten other guys as well. It's easy for fans to say anyone would have taken them, but the owner is paying an entire scouting staff to not make those poorly aging decisions.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's why it won't happen. Gorton won't bet on Laf twice. Laf hasn't been able to translate any of his projectable skills to the NHL level and his skating is fairly average. Rangers retooled but they also didn't want to miss the playoffs so they kept hiring win-now coaches. Gallant was never going to develop their young guys, nor was he brought in for that. Laviolette is even worse for that, but he does tend to run systems that inflate offensive numbers.

The Rangers fans and owner probably look at Laf and cry they didn't get Stutzle (Who was my first overall for the simple reason that I always put German players ten spots higher than they deserve). Kakko over ten other guys as well. It's easy for fans to say anyone would have taken them, but the owner is paying an entire scouting staff to not make those poorly aging decisions.

So much hype on Laf and they develop him in the third line…

 

[Ezpz]

So much hype on Laf and they develop him in the third line…

Not only that they signed Panarin and extended Kreider instead of flipping him. Which probably was for the best considering how badly Bobrov bombed all their picks.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not only that they signed Panarin and extended Kreider instead of flipping him. Which probably was for the best considering how badly Bobrov bombed all their picks.

Yeah, not flipping him is also inexcusable.

 

[morhilane]

The Rangers fans and owner probably look at Laf and cry they didn't get Stutzle (Who was my first overall for the simple reason that I always put German players ten spots higher than they deserve).

I doubt Stutzle would have turned out like he did in Ottawa had he been with the Rangers. Well, he might still be a diving diva.

 

[HuGort]

This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy. The Rangers never gave him a chance. So was he really not that great or was it development? The fact that we don’t know is a damning indictment on the Rangers.

It’s also interesting that they had TWO highly touted prospects underperform.

Maybe Laf was never that good. But man, you’d think they’d have given him a shot to prove himself.

First overall pick, two different GMs imagine they gave him a lot of rope. He was likely was over rated

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

First overall pick, two different GMs imagine they gave him a lot of rope. He was likely was over rated

They didn’t give him opportunity. He’s spent a lot of time on the 3rd line with no PP time. Not how you develop a blue chip prospect.

 

[Zilo44]

Do you think Ottawa would entertain something around Pinto for Barron ?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Do you think Ottawa would entertain something around Pinto for Barron ?

No.

They waived Lassi Thompson because he sucks and wouldn't crack their dcore.

Barron likely doesn't crack their dcore and if you're willing to give him up so easily, other people who aren't hab fans know he's struggling and is value isn't high.

 

[The Great Weal]

Do you think Ottawa would entertain something around Pinto for Barron ?

No, Barron wouldn't crack their team

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

They put Kreider and Panarin on the same line for a while, I don't think Laf showed anything any time he got PP or top six minutes. Kakko at least passes the eye test while not taking steps forward. Laf's hockey IQ doesn't appear to exist at the NHL level, despite many saying it was one of his strengths in junior. He was possibly the oldest player in the 2020 draft too and had a grown man's body even in his D-1, playing in the least physical junior league.

I do think on a line with Suzuki and Caufield that Lafreniere could still become a first line player. I just don't want to overpay for potential, it has traditionally bitten the Habs in the ass. Laf could easily just be another Drouin situation. Drouin showed flashes in the playoffs too and everyone was convinced he'd be a star here, I was worried in the 2022 off-season we'd overpay for him after he had that decent showing. This past season he was a non-factor in the playoffs. I think the Rangers will move on as they're not a club that rebuilds. They fired Gorton and hastened their timeline because it wasn't popular (the Wilson thing was a silly excuse).

Anyways, I just really like RHP. He puts everything into his game and had to work hard to get to where he is. I want to discount him constantly but I'm impressed each time I watch him. I think he's going to have a pretty good 6-7 years. I think his value is also intangible like Gallagher used to be, guys see players who work like that and it inspires them to bust their ass a little harder.

Lafreniere never got PP or top 6 minutes. If he did they were miniscule.

 

[salbutera]

Do you think Ottawa would entertain something around Pinto for Barron ?

Dorion slams to hang up the phone & farts in your general direction

 

[Ezpz]

Dorion slams to hang up the phone & farts in your general direction

They don't really have space to sign him and teams are asking a first to take Joseph. I think it would be more realistic to take Joseph and a sweetener for Ylonen.