HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[ML16]

To MTL: Mathieu Joseph
To OTT: Armia 50% retained

Saving 1.2M AAV is likely not enough to bridge Pinto, so I hardly see Ottawa considering this from the outset.

From a Habs POV, using their last salary retention on Armia this year (and the next!) would be suboptimal; Pearson, Monahan, Dvorak, Savard and maybe even Allen all seem like better candidates for retention over the next 2 years.

Maybe however something like M. Joseph + 2024 2nd for Ylonen could work for both teams?

By swapping Jospeh for a league minimum former 2nd rounder who had some interesting NHL moments last year, Senators save 2.2M, enough to bridge Pinto.

Habs replace Ylonen with a more complementary asset for their bottom-6 - and gain yet another top-64 pick in this endeavour considering notably Joseph’s terms (2.95M AAV x 3 years), but especially Ottawa’s weak bargaining stance in the matter.

Opening Night Lineup :

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan*
Pearson* - Dach - Slafkovsky
Harvey-Pinard - Newhook - Anderson
Joseph - Evans - Gallagher
Pezzetta, Armia**
IR : Dvorak*

*Pearson and one of Dvorak/Monahan dealt by TDL 2024. Dvorak surely traded at offseason 2024 if not before, whereas I could see the Habs holding on to Monahan a little longer if Dvorak can be dealt first.

**Armia bought out in the summer 2024 (Cap hit over 2 years: 0.8M and 1.3M).

 

[BoneHutson]

Saving 1.2M AAV is likely not enough to bridge Pinto, so I hardly see Ottawa considering this from the outset.

From a Habs POV, using their last salary retention on Armia this year (and the next!) would be suboptimal; Pearson, Monahan, Dvorak, Savard and maybe even Allen all seem like better candidates for retention over the next 2 years.

Maybe however something like M. Joseph + 2024 2nd for Ylonen could work for both teams?

By swapping Jospeh for a league minimum former 2nd rounder who had some interesting NHL moments last year, Senators save 2.2M, enough to bridge Pinto.

Habs replace Ylonen with a more complementary asset for their bottom-6 - and gain yet another top-64 pick in this endeavour considering notably Joseph’s terms (2.95M AAV x 3 years), but especially Ottawa’s weak bargaining stance in the matter.

Opening Night Lineup :

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan*
Pearson* - Dach - Slafkovsky
Harvey-Pinard - Newhook - Anderson
Joseph - Evans - Gallagher
Pezzetta, Armia**
IR : Dvorak*

*Pearson and one of Dvorak/Monahan dealt by TDL 2024. Dvorak surely traded at offseason 2024 if not before, whereas I could see the Habs holding on to Monahan a little longer if Dvorak can be dealt first.

**Armia bought out in the summer 2024 (Cap hit over 2 years: 0.8M and 1.3M).

Id much rather make a deal for DETs first. Maybe if we add a 3rd and 4th?

So, Joseph and the lowest of both first for a 3rd and a 4th (equivalent to a late second)

 

[ML16]

The Ducks aren't deep, their prospect pool is. But that's what Montreal is too. I'm not against a Zegras trade, but it would be nice to have a season where we (and management) can get an idea of what is actually on the roster right now. Because of injuries and roster turnover the last two seasons, we're less than two weeks out from game 1 and we don't even have a clear picture of who the major pairs are at forward, let alone lines. Half the roster are sophmores who haven't played full seasons.

Its hard to make the right trades for what you need when you don't even have a clear idea of what you have. Unless the trade is for truly elite talent, because we know Montreal needs that.

I concur; exploring a Zegras trade seems premature without first giving Dach - and, to a lesser extent, Newhook - a proper chance to establish themselves at C.

Actually, if the Habs can drive his price down by selling him the idea of playing wing, maybe then it’s a little less premature…

But then again, even if the Habs were to engage in such talks with Anaheim, it would prove quite difficult to build a mutually interesting package anyways; both teams are rebuilding and have a stacked D pipeline.

 

[Vachon23]

Wasn’t Manny Malhotra canned by Leafs? Would think he’d be a good pickup as org faceoff development coach

He’s still with Toronto but I would have take him as Assistant Coach. Many players that have played with him said how a good coach he could become

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I seem to recall that Dach improved significantly at faceoffs as the season ensued last year. Hopefully I’m remembering correctly.

according to stats , he's still struggling hard.

Thinking Dach never improved at faceoffs and won't improve at them further so he shouldn't play center or take them is being blind to his development. The only reason his career average is that low is because of his post-injury season in Chicago and being thrown to the wolves at 18 years old where he got both 32% and 33% season.

His other two seasons were at 40% and 38% last season after a slow start (his avg from Jan to end of season was slightly over 40%).

And you can't improve faceoffs by not taking them.

That doesn't mean the original point. He does sucks at faceoff , nothing stops him to play as a center after the faceoff.
Not the first time it would happen and clearly not the last.

 

[Egresch]

Zegras is simply the “bling” Habs fans have so desperately been seeking…

Bling is actually excellent description of his game. That is all he does, sure it would bring us the cup.

 

[HuGort]

pipe dream thinking habs can get Pettersson

Is a lot to give up then a huge contract. I can't see it happening

 

[26Mats]

Saving 1.2M AAV is likely not enough to bridge Pinto, so I hardly see Ottawa considering this from the outset.

From a Habs POV, using their last salary retention on Armia this year (and the next!) would be suboptimal; Pearson, Monahan, Dvorak, Savard and maybe even Allen all seem like better candidates for retention over the next 2 years.

Maybe however something like M. Joseph + 2024 2nd for Ylonen could work for both teams?

By swapping Jospeh for a league minimum former 2nd rounder who had some interesting NHL moments last year, Senators save 2.2M, enough to bridge Pinto.

Habs replace Ylonen with a more complementary asset for their bottom-6 - and gain yet another top-64 pick in this endeavour considering notably Joseph’s terms (2.95M AAV x 3 years), but especially Ottawa’s weak bargaining stance in the matter.

Opening Night Lineup :

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan*
Pearson* - Dach - Slafkovsky
Harvey-Pinard - Newhook - Anderson
Joseph - Evans - Gallagher
Pezzetta, Armia**
IR : Dvorak*

*Pearson and one of Dvorak/Monahan dealt by TDL 2024. Dvorak surely traded at offseason 2024 if not before, whereas I could see the Habs holding on to Monahan a little longer if Dvorak can be dealt first.

**Armia bought out in the summer 2024 (Cap hit over 2 years: 0.8M and 1.3M).

I hear you. But a couple of points:

- If we retain on Armia, we still have 1 retention spot next year.
- This TDL, we won't need a retention spot for Monahan, as his salary is already low.

At any rate we can probably get a pick for Joseph..

With Joseph's speed, I wonder if he couldn't play with Newhook and Anderson. I love RHP with Anderson. But I really want to get Slaf going, and RHP might be just as good for Slaf as he has been for Anderson.

I'm not sure I want to lose Ylonen. But one of Pearson, Armia, or Ylonen have to go if we bring in Joseph.

 

[sampollock]

I seem to recall that Dach improved significantly at faceoffs as the season ensued last year. Hopefully I’m remembering correctly.

he did

 

[Deus ex machina]

Saving 1.2M AAV is likely not enough to bridge Pinto, so I hardly see Ottawa considering this from the outset.

From a Habs POV, using their last salary retention on Armia this year (and the next!) would be suboptimal; Pearson, Monahan, Dvorak, Savard and maybe even Allen all seem like better candidates for retention over the next 2 years.

Maybe however something like M. Joseph + 2024 2nd for Ylonen could work for both teams?

By swapping Jospeh for a league minimum former 2nd rounder who had some interesting NHL moments last year, Senators save 2.2M, enough to bridge Pinto.

Habs replace Ylonen with a more complementary asset for their bottom-6 - and gain yet another top-64 pick in this endeavour considering notably Joseph’s terms (2.95M AAV x 3 years), but especially Ottawa’s weak bargaining stance in the matter.

Opening Night Lineup :

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan*
Pearson* - Dach - Slafkovsky
Harvey-Pinard - Newhook - Anderson
Joseph - Evans - Gallagher
Pezzetta, Armia**
IR : Dvorak*

*Pearson and one of Dvorak/Monahan dealt by TDL 2024. Dvorak surely traded at offseason 2024 if not before, whereas I could see the Habs holding on to Monahan a little longer if Dvorak can be dealt first.

**Armia bought out in the summer 2024 (Cap hit over 2 years: 0.8M and 1.3M).

There's reports that say that teams are asking for a 1st or a prospect worth a 1st to take on Joseph's contract.
Understandably, the Sens would like to avoid that.
So taking a 2nd instead of a 1st AND giving up Ylonen on top of that doesn't make sense to me.
Ylonen is a former 35 OA pick and averaged nearly 0.5 ppg last year. I wouldn't give him up for less than a 2nd.

Another option is to send Carey Price's contract for Joseph's contract.

Let's say Price and Ylonen for Joseph and a 2nd.
In that scenario, Ottawa clears enough cap space to sign Pinto and have 13 forwards under the cap.
But they can't sign Bayley.

I'm not sure either team is willing to do that though.

 

[Sterling Archer]

There's reports that say that teams are asking for a 1st or a prospect worth a 1st to take on Joseph's contract.
Understandably, the Sens would like to avoid that.
So taking a 2nd instead of a 1st AND giving up Ylonen on top of that doesn't make sense to me.
Ylonen is a former 35 OA pick and averaged nearly 0.5 ppg last year. I wouldn't give him up for less than a 2nd.

Another option is to send Carey Price's contract for Joseph's contract.

Let's say Price and Ylonen for Joseph and a 2nd.
In that scenario, Ottawa clears enough cap space to sign Pinto and have 13 forwards under the cap.
But they can't sign Bayley.

I'm not sure either team is willing to do that though.

I know it's a paper transaction to move Price, but a little bit of me would die inside to see Price and Ottawa Senators in the same frame

 

[Deus ex machina]

I know it's a paper transaction to move Price, but a little bit of me would die inside to see Price and Ottawa Senators in the same frame

I know what you're saying but if they really want to get rid of his contract, i don't think there's many options left.
Maybe Toronto, if they want to sign Patrick Kane?
That would be worse...lol

With the cap going up in the coming years, that might be the last opportunities they get.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I know what you're saying but if they really want to get rid of his contract, i don't think there's many options left.
Maybe Toronto, if they want to sign Patrick Kane?
That would be worse...lol

With the cap going up in the coming years, that might be the last opportunities they get.

I understand. I just don’t like it!

 

[SlafySZN]

Zegras is a C. You put Dach on wing.

Zegras would move to wing, he’s not a C. Not good enough in his own zone.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I know what you're saying but if they really want to get rid of his contract, i don't think there's many options left.
Maybe Toronto, if they want to sign Patrick Kane?
That would be worse...lol

With the cap going up in the coming years, that might be the last opportunities they get.

How does trading Price to Toronto help them sign Kane?

 

[BaseballCoach]

I hear you. But a couple of points:

- If we retain on Armia, we still have 1 retention spot next year.
- This TDL, we won't need a retention spot for Monahan, as his salary is already low.

At any rate we can probably get a pick for Joseph..

With Joseph's speed, I wonder if he couldn't play with Newhook and Anderson. I love RHP with Anderson. But I really want to get Slaf going, and RHP might be just as good for Slaf as he has been for Anderson.

I'm not sure I want to lose Ylonen. But one of Pearson, Armia, or Ylonen have to go if we bring in Joseph.

Ylonen is filler, utterly replaceable.

 

[Deus ex machina]

How does trading Price to Toronto help them sign Kane?

By taking salary(ies) in return.
If they want to sign Kane, somebody else has to go.
They were talks of Brodie and Jarnkrok being the likely candidates.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Ylonen is filler, utterly replaceable.

I agree, even though I like the kid's skillset. He can't seem to put it together. At least with pezzetta he knows his role - energy, fighting and PK work. That's why I keep him around

 

[Captain Mountain]

Saving 1.2M AAV is likely not enough to bridge Pinto, so I hardly see Ottawa considering this from the outset.

From a Habs POV, using their last salary retention on Armia this year (and the next!) would be suboptimal; Pearson, Monahan, Dvorak, Savard and maybe even Allen all seem like better candidates for retention over the next 2 years.

Maybe however something like M. Joseph + 2024 2nd for Ylonen could work for both teams?

By swapping Jospeh for a league minimum former 2nd rounder who had some interesting NHL moments last year, Senators save 2.2M, enough to bridge Pinto.

Habs replace Ylonen with a more complementary asset for their bottom-6 - and gain yet another top-64 pick in this endeavour considering notably Joseph’s terms (2.95M AAV x 3 years), but especially Ottawa’s weak bargaining stance in the matter.

Opening Night Lineup :

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan*
Pearson* - Dach - Slafkovsky
Harvey-Pinard - Newhook - Anderson
Joseph - Evans - Gallagher
Pezzetta, Armia**
IR : Dvorak*

*Pearson and one of Dvorak/Monahan dealt by TDL 2024. Dvorak surely traded at offseason 2024 if not before, whereas I could see the Habs holding on to Monahan a little longer if Dvorak can be dealt first.

**Armia bought out in the summer 2024 (Cap hit over 2 years: 0.8M and 1.3M).

This basically means that Montreal has to use in-season LTIR and will have pretty limited cap flexibility to maneuver LTIR. For instance, if its in the best interest to send Slaf to the AHL, they may not be able to call him up again.

I'm also a little skeptical of Joseph's fit roster wise. He's a winger who doesn't shoot and is as hot and cold as Armia. You're basically swapping size and reach for speed.

And with no retention spots, Pearson and Dvorak aren't really trade-able at the deadline unless its cap neutral and Montreal isn't getting anything of note. Monahan may be moveable depending on health, but you're not going to get full value on him without retention.

IDK, the Ottawa 2nd doesn't seem worth it. I do like Ylonen (he was frankly better than Joseph last season), but I don't think it matters what you think of him. A 2nd alone probably isn't worth all this maneuvering. At least with the August/September 2023 trades, Montreal got multiple mid-round picks, were able to swap Hoffman for a winger better suited for a bottom line role, and the net cap effect this season was pretty insigicant, no long term commitments to players were made, and cap flexibility in 2025 was preserved.

 

[Beer and Chips]

The team needs an Anderson with IQ and that's going to cost, Newhook makes it difficult for Farrell and Mesar.

 

[A55P2]

I'd pick Belzile on waivers and waive Evans. We need a good fourth line to start the season. What is Evans even bringing right now? A bit of speed?

 

[BaseballCoach]

This basically means that Montreal has to use in-season LTIR and will have pretty limited cap flexibility to maneuver LTIR. For instance, if its in the best interest to send Slaf to the AHL, they may not be able to call him up again.

I'm also a little skeptical of Joseph's fit roster wise. He's a winger who doesn't shoot and is as hot and cold as Armia. You're basically swapping size and reach for speed.

And with no retention spots, Pearson and Dvorak aren't really trade-able at the deadline unless its cap neutral and Montreal isn't getting anything of note. Monahan may be moveable depending on health, but you're not going to get full value on him without retention.

IDK, the Ottawa 2nd doesn't seem worth it. I do like Ylonen (he was frankly better than Joseph last season), but I don't think it matters what you think of him. A 2nd alone probably isn't worth all this maneuvering. At least with the August/September 2023 trades, Montreal got multiple mid-round picks, were able to swap Hoffman for a winger better suited for a bottom line role, and the net cap effect this season was pretty insigicant, no long term commitments to players were made, and cap flexibility in 2025 was preserved.

I agree a 2nd is not worth it for 3 years of Joseph at $3M.

Needs to be a first, unless they take Price.

 

[RationalExpectations]

I'd pick Belzile on waivers and waive Evans. We need a good fourth line to start the season. What is Evans even bringing right now? A bit of speed?

I think they won t for communication reasons (like Petry) : Belzile wanted to leave MTL, would not look nice to call him back.

 

[ReHabs]

I think they won t for communication reasons (like Petry) : Belzile wanted to leave MTL, would not look nice to call him back.

He left because he wanted an NHL spot. He was perfectly fine to stay.

That said, maybe he doesn’t have the requisite quality to play in the NHL… and he just derailed our tank last year for no good reason.

As for Zegras…

Anderson ++ for Zegras

Let’s make some magic happen folks

Who’s the best dman you’d pair with Anderson in order to pry Zegras from Anaheim?

Who’s the best prospect/future, same thing?

Anderson + Harris + 3rd won’t get it done!

 

[RationalExpectations]

He left because he wanted an NHL spot. He was perfectly fine to stay.

That said, maybe he doesn’t have the requisite quality to play in the NHL… and he just derailed our tank last year for no good reason.

As for Zegras…

Anderson ++ for Zegras

Let’s make some magic happen folks

Who’s the best dman you’d pair with Anderson in order to pry Zegras from Anaheim?

Who’s the best prospect/future, same thing?

Anderson + Harris + 3rd won’t get it done!

The issue is that ANA is so deep with D prospects : Mintyukov, Luneau, Zeelweger, Drysdale is quite good of a pool.

Also I am convinced Zegras has the will to wow but not sure he has the will to win ( seems uninterested in physical battles and defensive chores)