HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[EXPOS123]

I doubt Ylonen gets waived. He's a potential middle six player, but his skill needs to be evaluated at the NHL level.

More likely one or two injuries just happen during preseason.

If not that, they could send Slafkovsky and RHP to Laval.

I personally don’t have high hopes for Ylonen.

A vanilla player who doesn’t engage enough.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Getting a 1st+Joseph for future considerations would be great but we got so many forwards as is.

I'd consider it. Firsts are valuable. Can the deal be done after the cap compliance day? Then no problem at all. If it needs to be done earlier, then we need to do what we gotta do to get our first, just like Ottawa is doing what they have to do to sign Pinto. Prioritize the highest asset.

I think they could fit Joseph in cap wise (I could be wrong, I'm very confused by how roster and LTIR rules works), but they would have to either put Dvorak/Price in offseason LTIR, or be willing to put Jake Allen on waivers.

Nobody is taking Jake Allen if he is paper-waived, and he would then be brought back the next day.

We can then get cap compliant without using off-season LTIR by waiving Joseph himself, Allen and Evans as well, plus paper-demoting the last waiver-exempt player (Slaf) and taking the chance that Slaf hits his bonuse (not much chance he hits a lot)s and we lose a bit of the $10M in post-deadline cap relief. Made it by $11k. Overall better than what we did last year and triggered the off-season LTIR.

Before anyone balks at Evans, let me ask this: Who would not trade Evans for Joseph and a first? We could maybe even get another 3rd or 4th out of it. But if Ottawa does not see value in him, then waiving Evans who is $1.7M on the cap for two years, and taking the chance of losing him, is a perfectly reaesonable move to get a first in addition to the cap room. We have so many forwards!

 

[Lockin17]

MTL : Harris + Farrell + Calgary first pick 2025 + Kidney
for
OTT : Batherson + Joseph

Batherson could complete the CC-Suzuki trio as a RW
Joseph is a Cap dumb at this point , almost worth a first pick to get rid of him
OTT needs cap space
MTL , needs to shed some cap after this , maybe trade Dvorak for a 2nd pick or Armia with a 2nd pick for future.

 

[Joseph Nathan]

MTL : Harris + Farrell + Calgary first pick 2025 + Kidney
for
OTT : Batherson + Joseph

Batherson could complete the CC-Suzuki trio as a RW
Joseph is a Cap dumb at this point , almost worth a first pick to get rid of him
OTT needs cap space
MTL , needs to shed some cap after this , maybe trade Dvorak for a 2nd pick or Armia with a 2nd pick for future.

Lol Calgary isn’t trading bathers on & what an awful return for Calgary. Armia is a cap dump. Dvorak cap and age is an issue

 

[WeThreeKings]

MTL : Harris + Farrell + Calgary first pick 2025 + Kidney
for
OTT : Batherson + Joseph

Batherson could complete the CC-Suzuki trio as a RW
Joseph is a Cap dumb at this point , almost worth a first pick to get rid of him
OTT needs cap space
MTL , needs to shed some cap after this , maybe trade Dvorak for a 2nd pick or Armia with a 2nd pick for future.

No thank you.. Batherson might not even be cleared from the WJC rape scandal.

 

[Ezpz]

No thank you.. Batherson might not even be cleared from the WJC rape scandal.

On top of that we're adding ten mil in cap and sending out 1. Even with Carey's ltir money that still puts us like 6 mil over the cap.

 

[BaseballCoach]

MTL : Harris + Farrell + Calgary first pick 2025 + Kidney
for
OTT : Batherson + Joseph

Batherson could complete the CC-Suzuki trio as a RW
Joseph is a Cap dumb at this point , almost worth a first pick to get rid of him
OTT needs cap space
MTL , needs to shed some cap after this , maybe trade Dvorak for a 2nd pick or Armia with a 2nd pick for future.

Joseph has little value so that's like paying Batherson $8M per year. I'm not sure I would do that for free, but certainly not giving up one huge prime asset, two secondary assets and a middling one .

Makes no sense. Batherson is ok provided he is not implicated in the scandal, but not at $8M and not with giving up a first for him.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Joseph has little value so that's like paying Batherson $8M per year. I'm not sure I would do that for free, but certainly not giving up one huge prime asset, two secondary assets and a middling one .

Makes no sense. Batherson is ok provided he is not implicated in the scandal, but not at $8M and not with giving up a first for him.

Batherson is also a defensive void. I would not spend a 1st for him. To me he is Hoffman 2.0

 

[salbutera]

MTL : Harris + Farrell + Calgary first pick 2025 + Kidney
for
OTT : Batherson + Joseph

Batherson could complete the CC-Suzuki trio as a RW
Joseph is a Cap dumb at this point , almost worth a first pick to get rid of him
OTT needs cap space
MTL , needs to shed some cap after this , maybe trade Dvorak for a 2nd pick or Armia with a 2nd pick for future.

Assuming Batherson is fully cleared from 2018 WJC Team Canada scandal…

I would do Joseph + Batherson for Armia

IMO Joseph’s speed & PK skill sets can be cultivated under MSL to high end levels, and Batherson’s natural sniping capabilities (combined w size quotient) would fit well under MSLs tutelage

 

[Mad]

There’s too many possible partners to dance with, I doubt Ottawa considers a trade with the Habs.

Unless there’s a sweetener. Which is too bad because an other first round pick would give us some options.

 

[MXD]

...Anyone else here thinks Ottawa, when they did their calculation, had accounted for Batherson not being on the cap?

 

[salbutera]

There’s too many possible partners to dance with, I doubt Ottawa considers a trade with the Habs.

Unless there’s a sweetener. Which is too bad because an other first round pick would give us some options.

How many of those “possible partners” have the ability to absorb upwards of $4M+ cap space over multiple years starting immediately / 1-2 months into this season?

Ana, Chi, Habs? Not sure Ducks can commit much past this season to additional cap burden given many of their young players will be coming off ELC looking for substantial longterm deals, which is part of the factor in getting Zegras signed…

Price’s in season LTIR is a godsend for HuGo, and they have to find a way to maximize it

 

[sampollock]

the NHL needs to release the WJH issue, I bet GM's are mad ... taking so long

 

[MXD]

the NHL needs to release the WJH issue, I bet GM's are mad ... taking so long

That would interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation.

 

[Mad]

How many of those “possible partners” have the ability to absorb upwards of $4M+ cap space over multiple years starting immediately / 1-2 months into this season?

Ana, Chi, Habs? Not sure Ducks can commit much past this season to additional cap burden given many of their young players will be coming off ELC looking for substantial longterm deals, which is part of the factor in getting Zegras signed…

Price’s in season LTIR is a godsend for HuGo, and they have to find a way to maximize it

How is it upwards $4M+ in cap space when Joseph’s cap hit is 2.9M.

Who’s coming off ELC on the Ducks other than the two players they already have in Zegras and Drysdale ?

It’s quite the opposite as the team will have plenty of young players starting their ELC in McTavish (2 years), Carlsson, Mintyukov and others. Plus Henrique and Silfverberg will free up 11M+ after this season.

Joseph’s contract is nothing for a team with cap space wanting to acquire an asset like a first round pick. They could even buy him out the following year or the one after in years where the cap is supposed to go up substantially.

There’s also different things to consider in this scenario.

1. Ottawa probably wants this deal to happen quickly for Pinto to join the team.

2. Habs cannot make this move before the seasons starts. While other teams have enough space to make a deal happen right now.

3. It’s divisional rivals, it’s pretty rare to see anything of value traded in division.

The last part I agree, Hughes should definitely use Price’s situation to his advantage but I doubt we see it with Ottawa.

He should definitely explore options during the season to see if he get an asset for all that space.

 

[BaseballCoach]

1. Ottawa probably wants this deal to happen quickly for Pinto to join the team.

2. Habs cannot make this move before the seasons starts. While other teams have enough space to make a deal happen right now.

I found the way!

We can do it with $11k to spare. I posted it earlier.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Hughes should definitely use Price’s situation to his advantage but I doubt we see it with Ottawa.

He should definitely explore options during the season to see if he get an asset for all that space.

Is there a team with a player currently on LTIR who should come off of it, while they have a big expiring contract they would like to dump?

 

[BaseballCoach]

That would interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation.

Maybe it's time for professional sports leagues to stop accepting the role of the judicial system. They are not equipped for it.

If a player is accused of wrongdoing in a game or within the sport, the league can and should take a stand. If it is outside the sport, it might be best to wait until a person is adjudged guilty, or has admitted the transgression, before appl;ying sanctions.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Maybe it's time for professional sports leagues to stop accepting the role of the judicial system. They are not equipped for it.

If a player is accused of wrongdoing in a game or within the sport, the league can and should take a stand. If it is outside the sport, it might be best to wait until a person is adjudged guilty, or has admitted the transgression, before appl;ying sanctions.

And if, for example, the player is accused of misconduct against other employees they should do nothing while the judicial system screws around. And the player continues to assault employees.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Nah don't help the Sens

 

[MXD]

Maybe it's time for professional sports leagues to stop accepting the role of the judicial system. They are not equipped for it.

If a player is accused of wrongdoing in a game or within the sport, the league can and should take a stand. If it is outside the sport, it might be best to wait until a person is adjudged guilty, or has admitted the transgression, before appl;ying sanctions.

That's a pretty good way to ensure Hockey Canada continues to do Hockey Canada stuff.

 

[BaseballCoach]

And if, for example, the player is accused of misconduct against other employees they should do nothing while the judicial system screws around. And the player continues to assault employees.

Employees are inside my category of "within the sport", including of course within the organization.

An organization may need to act. If there is no evidence other than an accusation, it becomes tricky, but it makes sense for them to look into it seriously.

The need to take a chance of sanctioning an innocent person diminishes substantially if the accuser is outside the organization's sphere.

And yes there can be grey areas.

However, the presumption of innocent until proven guilty is a valuable one in liberal democracies, and innocent defendants exist. One day, that could be one of us, or someone we care about, and we might appreciate our livelihoods not being destoyed prematurely.

I don't see anything wrong with the NHL saying that they will wait for the results of the criminal investigation in this case, and then throw the book at anyone guilty. Especially absent any other accusations against the same players. This is not a Mike Babcock situaton where many, many people within the sport have been complaining and a pattern can be easily seen.

 

[BaseballCoach]

That's a pretty good way to ensure Hockey Canada continues to do Hockey Canada stuff.

The NHL is not Hockey Canada. And there is a lot all of these organizatons including the NHL can do to reduce the incidence of bad bahaviour.

But if you're a relative or friend of a player who was 2000 miles away when this incident is said to have occured, you probably appreciate a witchhunt being averted.

And you know what? If your son was asleep in his own room even in the same hotel as some of the others, you might also not want him to get suspended from the NHL.

Something similar but milder actually happened to my son. His team won the national university baseball championship, and later that night, a few players got drunk and trashed two rooms. The majority of the boys were asleep but a few caused mischief. The hotel complained to the university.

My son and the others who were not there were not punished by the school, thankfully.

 

[Egresch]

Not that it would even work, but trading value for an Elias Pettersson or equivalent talent is a whole different proposition than 19 year old Sergachev for Drouin.

I really hope Habs go hard for Pettersson trade if he stays unhappy in VAN. Price would be high and probably one of Slaf/Dach/Newhook needs to included. Plus something like Harris, 1st and additional prospect or two. Or maybe VAN asks for Anderson/Dvorak to provide some instant players.

 

[Weltschmerz]

...Anyone else here thinks Ottawa, when they did their calculation, had accounted for Batherson not being on the cap?

Nah Dorion is just desperate to keep his job.

That tarasenko signing was just dumb, not saying he is washed, but they didn't really need him and could have banked capspace and add at the dealine if necassary.
But hey a free asset, could not resist.