HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[Miller Time]

So is Hughes gonna do the smart thing and recoup assets from Allen ? Or is he keeping him because he's good in the room and trading CDS for nothing ?

Not sure there's a market for Allen right now...

Maybe if he bounces back and plays very well behind (or supplanting?) Monty this year & a contender runs into an injury in nets, but otherwise it's tough to see much of a market for him.

Maybe the Kings?
The Jets (if they trade Hellebuyck)?
The Devil's if Vanacek falters?

Not sure where else he'd be a fit at 3.8M unless we're retaining or taking back a big cap hit the other way.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So is Hughes gonna do the smart thing and recoup assets from Allen ? Or is he keeping him because he's good in the room and trading CDS for nothing ?

I don't think Allen's contract is moveable. DeSmith has similar numbers and a fraction of a cap hit. I think teams looking for a 2nd goalie would pick DeSmith over Allen when you factor in cap hit. It's one more flat cap season so it is what it is.

Teams know Allen is a good 1B but most if not all of those teams don't have the cap space to add him. DeSmith is a better option. I suspect he will get traded... question is when.

Hughes told Allen he won't be traded... two reasons. He's liked in the room and his cap hit is almost impossible to move without adding a future to do it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Desmith to Florida for 2024 3rd pick

Make this happen

I think we will take anything to move DeSmith at this stage. I'll be shocked if we get a 3rd rounder. Cap space is valuable and teams will offer 5th, 6th, or 7th rounders. DeSmith is a solid back-up with a OK cap hit but who trades a 3rd for a piece like that in a flat cap season where cap space is one of the most valuable things teams have at the moment?

If the cap was $90M and over half the teams in the NHL had loads of cap space, maybe your 3rd for DeSmith would work. However, the circumstances are much different. He's not impossible to move but certainly not easy and the purpose of us moving him is to not retain and/or take a contract back.

What we need is a few teams to have some goalie injuries in pre season. Injuries that are more than just day/day.

 

[Mrb1p]

Not sure there's a market for Allen right now...

Maybe if he bounces back and plays very well behind (or supplanting?) Monty this year & a contender runs into an injury in nets, but otherwise it's tough to see much of a market for him.

Maybe the Kings?
The Jets (if they trade Hellebuyck)?
The Devil's if Vanacek falters?

Not sure where else he'd be a fit at 3.8M unless we're retaining or taking back a big cap hit the other way.

I think we will take anything to move DeSmith at this stage. I'll be shocked if we get a 3rd rounder. Cap space is valuable and teams will offer 5th, 6th, or 7th rounders. DeSmith is a solid back-up with a OK cap hit but who trades a 3rd for a piece like that in a flat cap season where cap space is one of the most valuable things teams have at the moment?

If the cap was $90M and over half the teams in the NHL had loads of cap space, maybe your 3rd for DeSmith would work. However, the circumstances are much different. He's not impossible to move but certainly not easy and the purpose of us moving him is to not retain and/or take a contract back.

You two are underrating the state of goaltending right now. Allen and CDS are cery good assets and more than on team will look to add them.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You two are underrating the state of goaltending right now. Allen and CDS are cery good assets and more than on team will look to add them.

I don't think we are underrating them and we have them rated similar to you. I think you are underestimating the available cap from across the NHL.

 

[Rapala]

I don't think we are underrating them and we have them rated similar to you. I think you are underestimating the available cap from across the NHL.

There will probably be some teams who hope to contend and won't want to go ito the season with a raw backup. The salaries aren't high enough at least in DeSmith's case where they won't be able to finagle with the cap. Allen is likely a TDL move if at all.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There will probably be some teams who hope to contend and won't want to go ito the season with a raw backup. The salaries aren't high enough at least in DeSmith's case where they won't be able to finagle with the cap. Allen is likely a TDL move if at all.

Yeah, Allen is almost untradable with that cap hit and 2 years left vs 1. DeSmith has performed just as good as Allen in recent sample sizes and easier to fit in the cap for a contender.

However, the only teams I have with more than $1.8M in cap space at the moment are... Devils, Flyers, Coyotes, Sharks, Blue Jackets, Wings, Preds, Sabres, Hawks, Ducks. Most if not all of these teams have 21-23 man rosters.

Not impossible but certainly not easy to find a good trade partner. Devils seem like a logical fit? Maybe they want to delay their decision until they get to see a few preseason games first?

 

[Miller Time]

You two are underrating the state of goaltending right now. Allen and CDS are cery good assets and more than on team will look to add them.

I hope you are right... If that's the case, I'm sure we'll see one of them moved.

 

[Rapala]

Yeah, Allen is almost untradable with that cap hit and 2 years left vs 1. DeSmith has performed just as good as Allen in recent sample sizes and easier to fit in the cap for a contender.

However, the only teams I have with more than $1.8M in cap space at the moment are... Devils, Flyers, Coyotes, Sharks, Blue Jackets, Wings, Preds, Sabres, Hawks, Ducks. Most if not all of these teams have 21-23 man rosters.

Not impossible but certainly not easy to find a good trade partner. Devils seem like a logical fit? Maybe they want to delay their decision until they get to see a few preseason games first?

Yup the typical time for a move is during or just after camp is out. Injuries or poor performance can get a lot of GM's hopping. DeSmith's experience does have value.

 

[Vachon23]

If DeSmith had any kind of value, he would already have been traded. Don’t expect anything big (7th round pick)

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yup the typical time for a move is during or just after camp is out. Injuries or poor performance can get a lot of GM's hopping. DeSmith's experience does have value.

Exactly what Hughes is thinking as well. It's clear as day and he may have a few options as tentative deals but decision is delayed.

If DeSmith had any kind of value, he would already have been traded. Don’t expect anything big (7th round pick)

Agreed. This is more about a cap crunch vs his value. He's a solid back-up but no team is going to help another with their cap and also give a 3rd rounder.

I expect 5th - 7th range as the return. Or even future considerations. One again, this is not because he sucks, it's about the cap.

 

[Vachon23]

Agreed. This is more about a cap crunch vs his value. He's a solid back-up but no team is going to help another with their cap and also give a 3rd rounder.

I expect 5th - 7th range as the return. Or even future considerations. One again, this is not because he sucks, it's about the cap.

And where at the point of the year where every teams have already there backup

 

[HuGort]

So is Hughes gonna do the smart thing and recoup assets from Allen ? Or is he keeping him because he's good in the room and trading CDS for nothing ?

He's not trading Allen. Just gave him extension with big raise. A 4 million caphit doubt he is movable. That's big caphit for oft-injured backup, in cap flat year

 

[DAChampion]

So is Hughes gonna do the smart thing and recoup assets from Allen ? Or is he keeping him because he's good in the room and trading CDS for nothing ?

I doubt that Allen has value.

 

[MolleSon]

Allen has no value at this point. Maybe at TDL with retention but not now. Same for DeSmith who is a good insurance if Allen gets injured again (and it will happen). So my take on this is they will start season with the 3 and see from there. The situation will resolve by itself.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Allen has no value at this point. Maybe at TDL with retention but not now. Same for DeSmith who is a good insurance if Allen gets injured again (and it will happen). So my take on this is they will start season with the 3 and see from there. The situation will resolve by itself.

The only way we will get OK value for Allen at the TDL is if we retain 50% and he has one more year in term left. Fans need to drop the idea of trading Allen. He's going to expire with us but there may be a chance he is traded at the 25 TDL as a pending UFA.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

So is Hughes gonna do the smart thing and recoup assets from Allen ? Or is he keeping him because he's good in the room and trading CDS for nothing ?

At this point if either gets a 5th I'd be happy.

 

[Belial]

Allen has no value at this point. Maybe at TDL with retention but not now. Same for DeSmith who is a good insurance if Allen gets injured again (and it will happen). So my take on this is they will start season with the 3 and see from there. The situation will resolve by itself.

And what if Allen doesn't get injured? Keeping 3 goalies up makes no sense IMO.

Just put DeSmith on waivers and let someone claim him if you can't trade him.

 

[Whalers Fan]

And what if Allen doesn't get injured? Keeping 3 goalies up makes no sense IMO.

Just put DeSmith on waivers and let someone claim him if you can't trade him.

I think this is what is what will actually happen. The trade market for backup goalies isn't great, but someone may take DeSmith for free as a waiver claim. If he somehow clears waivers, he could get traded for an AHL player, since the acquiring team would not need to keep him on the NHL roster to start the season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And what if Allen doesn't get injured? Keeping 3 goalies up makes no sense IMO.

Just put DeSmith on waivers and let someone claim him if you can't trade him.

If the plan is to not have Price on LTIR before the season starts, there is no way we are able to carry 3 goalies. I agree, DeSmith goes on waivers along with Pezzetta and Wideman.... if there are no trade partners for DeSmith

I'm curious. Is Hughes holding out for a better deal or are there no offers for DeSmith at the moment? Not even a 7th or future considerations? I'm lead to believe we have no official offers but we do have tentative ones. Teams want to see a few preseason games first. A team like the Devils has Schmid at age 23 with 24 NHL games played. Also 9 playoff games last year with good numbers and I was surprised to see that. So maybe, they want to see him in some preseason games before considering DeSmith and having Schmid play one more AHL season. Who do the Devils have projected for their AHL team? Daws & Kallgren? Maybe the Devils are OK where they are at the moment.

There is no way Hughes makes that trade with the Pens/Sharks if he didn't have a back-up plan. A back-up plan for having too many back-ups.

 

[morhilane]

DeSmith would be a backup goalie or an injury replacement option for some teams, but they are probably waiting to see their current goalie crop at camp (prospects and injuries evaluations) before thinking trade.

He's probably going to be taken on waiver thought.

 

[BaseballCoach]

And what if Allen doesn't get injured? Keeping 3 goalies up makes no sense IMO.

Just put DeSmith on waivers and let someone claim him if you can't trade him.

The problem may be a new foxhole, this one courtesy of KH rather than MB.

DeSmith had the best SVP and GAA of the four keepers we have. The CLUB (not just the player) needs the opportunity to see what he can do. Trading him for value might be ok, giving him away for the sole and unique reason that Jake Allen is good in the room, is not a good nor inspiring "building" move.

If being good in the room means that Allen has more use as one of the three extras in the pressbox than a third skater, KH can choose that route. Or he can give Monty two guys to compete internally with and try to keep his salary demands reasonable if he is not clearly better than the two career backups.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I don't think Allen is moveable at full freight for the beginning of the season so there isn't much of a decision to be made. They're going to trade DeSmith for a late pick or waive him because for some reason teams like eg. Buffalo don't think they need to invest in goaltending and are willing to burn another year of their young cores on garbage goalie rooms.

The problem may be a new foxhole, this one courtesy of KH rather than MB.

DeSmith had the best SVP and GAA of the four keepers we have. The CLUB (not just the player) needs the opportunity to see what he can do. Trading him for value might be ok, giving him away for the sole and unique reason that Jake Allen is good in the room, is not a good nor inspiring "building" move.

I think this is a little overdramatic. They're both generic career backups/1Bs, and Allen probably can't be traded so they're just going to move DeSmith as he's a pending UFA anyway and in the same tier of player as Allen even if he's probably better at the moment. The choice is not really between "trading the guy that's good in the room" vs trading DeSmith, it's choosing to waive/trade DeSmith for a 5th instead of paying to trade Allen/retaining 50% on him.

Keeping three goalies around for the sake of the quality difference between Allen and DeSmith doesn't really make sense to me either unless Montembeault gets hurt in camp and they keep both of the vets around to figure it out later.

 

[Sterling Archer]

The problem may be a new foxhole, this one courtesy of KH rather than MB.

DeSmith had the best SVP and GAA of the four keepers we have. The CLUB (not just the player) needs the opportunity to see what he can do. Trading him for value might be ok, giving him away for the sole and unique reason that Jake Allen is good in the room, is not a good nor inspiring "building" move.

If being good in the room means that Allen has more use as one of the three extras in the pressbox than a third skater, KH can choose that route. Or he can give Monty two guys to compete internally with and try to keep his salary demands reasonable if he is not clearly better than the two career backups.

i don't think it's a "foxhole" issue with KH. Allen is untradable, so he's off the table. Monty is 5 years younger, on a better contract and was very good last year and at the World's as well as being part of the team now. So Monty isn't going anywhere.

If KH could swap out Allen for DeSmith I'm sure he would but Allen isn't going anywhere until the 2025 TDL or if by miracle, the offseason in 2024, at the earliest.

DeSmith is just the odd man out.

 

[HABitual Fan]

If DeSmith had any kind of value, he would already have been traded. Don’t expect anything big (7th round pick)

His value will only be determined if he clears waivers, any team could have traded for him for nothing from Pittsburgh if they wanted him as a backup goalie. With his low cap hit he would make an amazing 3 rd goalie in the AHL for a contender without an experienced backup or as injury protection. The return will probably be a goalie to play the year in Laval with Primeau or Dobes.