Hoffman previously had a bad reputation and Armia accepted to stay in Montreal but is not meeting expectations. I don't see why burying both would prevent any UFAs from signing here. Either way, attractive UFAs are becoming a rarety and teams no longer see them as core pieces but rather complementary players.
HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon
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Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Agreed. How often does key pieces still in their 20's become UFA anyways? It's rare. In most cases, those big UFA's are in their 30+ years and it's usually a trap because you got to give them the term they want.
Of course we will evaluate where we stand in 3-5 years and see if we need to try to sign guys or trade for them but that's the last part of the plan and we are years away from considering those options.
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
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- Apr 29, 2018
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I get the treat the vets right part, but this is why you're seeing more and more players force trades to where they want.
You're getting paid a lot to perform, you're not performing and people are expecting teams to coddle them.
f*** that, you really think if any of us underperform at our jobs we're not going to get fired ?
You suck, you get waived. You still get your paycheque, unlike a lot of us.
The Athletic’s model is obviously not perfect, but nevertheless gives a good idea of the Habs’ « contractual effectiveness ».
With an overall C-, Montreal now stands 27th overall in that regard, better than 32nd at the same time last year.
Hopefully, we should however a very steep rise in « contract effectiveness » in Montreal at the latest during offseason 2025, once Dvorak-Hoffman-Allen-Savard-Armia’s combined 19.7M AAV are off the books - and mostly replaced by ELCs/RFAs.
As for speeding up the process, besides Hoffman becoming UFA in 2024, the average salaries compiled by The Athletic shows how moving the aforementioned anchors could prove costly.
Hoffman’s and Dvorak’s rate correlates with « average top-6 forward »; the first evidently isn’t, can’t play defense to save his life and thus holds absolute negative value. Whereas Dvorak could be, but not with a contending team, where he’d rather fit as C3; so he at least holds positive the value as a slightly overpaid « high-end top-9 ».
Armia’s rate correlates to a « high-end top-9 forward »; he isn’t, 18 games out of 20. Holds no actual trade value; could at best be traded in a lateral move or for a symbolic return in his last contract year since he could hold some value as a 1.7M « high-end 4th liner » with 50% retention.
As for Savard at 50% retained, 1.75M would label him as a « low-cost 3rd pairing » and could fetch quite an interesting return from a contender in need of experience for a deep playoff run.
With an overall C-, Montreal now stands 27th overall in that regard, better than 32nd at the same time last year.
Hopefully, we should however a very steep rise in « contract effectiveness » in Montreal at the latest during offseason 2025, once Dvorak-Hoffman-Allen-Savard-Armia’s combined 19.7M AAV are off the books - and mostly replaced by ELCs/RFAs.
As for speeding up the process, besides Hoffman becoming UFA in 2024, the average salaries compiled by The Athletic shows how moving the aforementioned anchors could prove costly.
Hoffman’s and Dvorak’s rate correlates with « average top-6 forward »; the first evidently isn’t, can’t play defense to save his life and thus holds absolute negative value. Whereas Dvorak could be, but not with a contending team, where he’d rather fit as C3; so he at least holds positive the value as a slightly overpaid « high-end top-9 ».
Armia’s rate correlates to a « high-end top-9 forward »; he isn’t, 18 games out of 20. Holds no actual trade value; could at best be traded in a lateral move or for a symbolic return in his last contract year since he could hold some value as a 1.7M « high-end 4th liner » with 50% retention.
As for Savard at 50% retained, 1.75M would label him as a « low-cost 3rd pairing » and could fetch quite an interesting return from a contender in need of experience for a deep playoff run.
Attachments
We all can agree that these guys will fetch junk in return, apart from Monahan, if he can have a solid year.
Best bet is to wait for the contracts to expire or if some teams offer picks, then move on from them. In any case, this is highly unlikely. Price's contract will be ending also, which leaves Gallagher and Anderson as the last pillars of the BargainBin mess.
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Vachon23
Registered User
No one should be untouchable for Petterson but he simply won’t be move
Neither one is going to be traded unless it's for McDavid. If you start acquiring young players and then move them soon after you will make players think about signing with the Habs. And if they do they will want a no trade deal which HuGo does not want any part of. Young players that aren't working out are the only ones that should be moved before HuGo knows what final pieces will be needed.
Demoting or benching turds like Armia and Hoffamn should not deter good players from considering Mtl as a possible destination.
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
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One of these is not the same as the others.
LV426
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Pompeius Magnus
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I'm pretty sure he'll be happy to play with whatever team will have him at this point.
austin316
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- Oct 4, 2016
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Disappointed we didn’t manage to do another Monahan like trade this summer, I thought that would be a possibility. Would be nice to have another two first round draft picks for the 2024 draft.
Unfortunately I don’t see how we acquire another first round pick with our underwhelming roster.
Unfortunately I don’t see how we acquire another first round pick with our underwhelming roster.
Captain Mountain
Formerly Captain Wolverine
- Jun 6, 2010
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While I don't expect another Monahan-like trade, being disappointed on August 3rd that Montreal didn't make a trade like the one they made August 18th last year seems premature.
Sterling Archer
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- Sep 26, 2006
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Hoffman will light it up in the pre-season, start the year flanking Suzuki - CC, going PPG in the first 20-30games...
Hughes will trade him for a 1st & prospect (a la Toffoli), and the usual suspects will complain that we didn't get enough in return/should've extended him.
One can dream, no?
BoneHutson
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- Mar 26, 2023
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Anderson, Monahan and Matheson could all fetch a first (probably more in Matheson’s case) at the TDL. I hope we can trade Anderson this summer tho
Tony Granato commented on the current way players are asking to be traded and how his generation would have never dreamed of doing the same .Lucic was actually honest and said how he and his family appreciated his time in Calgary but the reason why so many players wanted out was simply because it was a boring place.I guess we're getting a clearer picture why places like Winnipeg, Columbus have a hard time hanging onto players.Kinda happy we didn't get PLD because if what he said is true "when LA got in the picture it was a no brainier" good fu$#ing riddins ya gutless puke.
BoneHutson
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- Mar 26, 2023
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Why not? How are you gonna fit all our young Ds in the coming years (and our young Fs)?
Guhle, Xhekaj, Barron, Harris are all locked NHL players. The staff seems really high on Mailloux and he might even make the team in october. Then youve got Reinbacher and Hutson who will be full time NHLer by 2024-25. Oh, and Engstrom is awesome and close too. So, youre just gonna block a couple of those guys in order to keep good’ol Matheson? Nah, that would be bad assets management especially since Matheson might fetch a hell of a return this year assuming he plays like he did last year.
Then its the same at forward. Roy, Beck, Heineman, Farrell and Mesar who shoule all be NHL ready by 24-25. No place for an ageing Anderson. Cash out while you can.
Slaf-Suzuki-Caufileld
Newhook-Dach-Roy
Farrell-Beck-Heineman
RHP-Evans-Ylonen
Plus the guys we will draft this year in the top 10 and Mesar. Theres no
Harry Kakalovich
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It's more a question of capspace.
Guys with term on their contracts usually get traded during the summer and not at the TDL.
BoneHutson
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- Mar 26, 2023
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Three things.
First, we can't know in advance whether it is better management to trade Matheson or a younger D without knowing what the returns would be and what salary is projected for each player.
Second, what is "a hell of a return" for Matheson? A late first round pick so we can draft another Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, McCarron, Scherbak, Juulsen, Poehling or Mesar? I hope you mean A LOT more when you expect "a hell of a return". Usually, a hell of a return means, you know, good players.
That being said, I was just saying that Anderson and Matheson are not Trade Deadline day targets, since they have term left. Deals for those types of players could occur at any time but usually offseason. At the TDL, the players moved are usually guys with expiring contracts. Toffoli whom you might say was an exception actually moved in January, not the TDL.
CHfan1
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Currently 18 teams, including Montreal have less than $1 million in cap space, only 7 have $4.8 million or more. It’s easier to trade longer term contracts during the off-season (usually closer to the draft) when more teams have cap space. Next year might be easier when the cap is expected to go up quite a bit.
Also, with only 2 veteran defenceman I expect the Habs to hang onto Matheson, especially after how he played last season.
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