HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

[calder candidate]

An enormously front loaded contract that's actually two separate contracts with a handshake agreement to skirt the CBA? Having MTL do it is a good way for it to be cracked down on.

That is exactly what Carolina did with KK, he didn’t earn that 8years base on is play and considering how cheap Carolina has been, it is pretty big outliers, Carolina likely just could not go back on there deal or else they likely would have been exposed.

 

[Destopcorner]

Having PLD sign here via trade gives us the perfect window to then draft Michkov at 5th oa. Not many markets picking top 5 would ever allow a risk pick (contracts), but a savvy market with intelligent fans would accept it with open arms.

Even though i like Michkov, we cant draft him without knowing our C top 6 was big and shored up for 8-10 years.. theres no other established 1/2C in the league than PLD (willing to sign here EVER), and we have NONE in the pipeline..
Signing PLD this year strengthens our team to become a playoff bubble almost instantly: Suzuki/Dach/PLD would be the best top3C in the league.. formidable.
Meaning we have 3 legit W/C in our top 6!! Do people unestimate how huge that is?

Agreed that would be the most balanced C line in the entire league. All having different skillset, PPG potential and all under 25... the dream right? Can't believe those against getting PLD because he's not enough and we can't win without a Mcdavid/superstar... What a load of crap. These people forget superstars come at a hefty 10M+ minimum cost and usually don't win anything, see Toronto and Edmonton. Having 3 young C stars sign under 8M is worth so much more than a Marner/Matthews duo. The family cap-friendly Tampa environment is how you create a family cap-friendly team who's players want championships, not money.

Luckily for us, that's exactly what Dubois want. Most will be surprised how low he signs compare to fair market value... He wants to win.

 

[themilosh]

Agreed that would be the most balanced C line in the entire league. All having different skillset, PPG potential and all under 25... the dream right? Can't believe those against getting PLD because he's not enough and we can't win without a Mcdavid/superstar... What a load of crap. These people forget superstars come at a hefty 10M+ minimum cost and usually don't win anything, see Toronto and Edmonton. Having 3 young C stars sign under 8M is worth so much more than a Marner/Matthews duo. The family cap-friendly Tampa environment is how you create a family cap-friendly team who's players want championships, not money.

Luckily for us, that's exactly what Dubois want. Most will be surprised how low he signs compare to fair market value... He wants to win.

Ikr! The minute PLD comes here, EVERYONE else becomes better, as it takes all eyes off of 1 line. It creates an incredible 3rd line, plus the myriad line juggling an in-game options having 3 bonified 1bCs is way stronger than a 1C 2C option. It also mitigates risk of injury to one of them.
But go ahead, draft Will Smith and "hope" he pans out in 3 years.. ffs give Winnipeg FLA1st (lottery protected) and dvorak and call it a day. Good grief..

Thankfully, Hugo tends to think like this, so I am holding up hope it might happen.. he's been aces since hes arrived.
The former bafoon would wait until next year, have PLD ship off to another team at TDL only to resign with them (8 years) and then address da meeediah about how hard it is to acquire Cs.. fans would patiently wait for frank nazar to pan out cause we also wouldnt have dach.

 

[Sebastien]

Stacked? Spurgeon, Dumba, Addison, Klingberg are all RD. And why wouldn't Weight want to add Ed at 1.75?? Such certainty with no context in your post.


Yes I'm just looking at young teams who's playoff window is starting to open who may not be attached to late 1st picks this year. Buffalo fits that bill but their first might be a bit high. We'd need to add a bit.

Dude they have jacob Middleton. They also have a stacked ld prospect and d prospect who can play both sides. They also have calen addison and Brock faber. They aren't adding. You clearly don't know Minnesota gm

That's why I think he'd be attractive to them at 50%. They will have cap casualties this season on D and will need replacements. They will want to be competitive next year after this year's success.

Spurgeon isn't an rd. He Plays both positions. Minnesota also has numerous d ready to take over. Their gm doesn't trade top picks like ever

 

[Destopcorner]

Ikr! The minute PLD comes here, EVERYONE else becomes better, as it takes all eyes off of 1 line. It creates an incredible 3rd line, plus the myriad line juggling an in-game options having 3 bonified 1bCs is way stronger than a 1C 2C option. It also mitigates risk of injury to one of them.
But go ahead, draft Will Smith and "hope" he pans out in 3 years.. ffs give Winnipeg FLA1st (lottery protected) and dvorak and call it a day. Good grief..

Thankfully, Hugo tends to think like this, so I am holding up hope it might happen.. he's been aces since hes arrived.
The former bafoon would wait until next year, have PLD ship off to another team at TDL only to resign with them (8 years) and then address da meeediah about how hard it is to acquire Cs.. fans would patiently wait for frank nazar to pan out cause we also wouldnt have dach.

I can already see the duos :

Caufield-Suzy -- Owning everything
Slaf-Dubois -- Nightmare knights
Dach-Heineman -- Playing vs top line

That's a top 6 ala québecoise, skillzy and well spread. After that, only 3 spots left for all these guys :

Andy
Roy
Farell
Mesar
Beck
Kidney
RHP
Gurianov
Ylonen
Kapanen
Richard
Tuch
Etc...

Plus our 11 picks.
Gotta realize many of these guys won't even have their chance with our depth.

I think Kent knows its quantity for quality time. We already have a great young core, no need for more years of suckage hoping for a lottery win or a hidden Kucherov.

 

[Scriptor]

An enormously front loaded contract that's actually two separate contracts with a handshake agreement to skirt the CBA? Having MTL do it is a good way for it to be cracked down on.

Of course, Bettman could crack down on it. I'm not sure, though, what his recourse could be if it is legal according tot he CBA?

 

[RationalExpectations]

An hostile offer sheet for 6.3m for Dubois kind of makes sense it would cost a 2024 first and 3rd i believe and no way the jets match if they do they can't trade him for a year so they would lose him for nothing its an interesting venue.

So if I understand this. The argument is as follows : Habs management does not want to trade the FLA pick so instead they risk losing a top 5OA in 2024 for one year of Dubois ? I seee how it is great for WPG not really for MTL.

 

[DAChampion]

So if I understand this. The argument is as follows : Habs management does not want to trade the FLA pick so instead they risk losing a top 5OA in 2024 for one year of Dubois ? I seee how it is great for WPG not really for MTL.

The idea is that the Habs will be better in 2024.

Also, is that draft deep?

 

[WeThreeKings]

The idea is that the Habs will be better in 2024.

Also, is that draft deep?

2024 should be a very interesting draft.. there's some really talented kids at the top and there's a lot more defenseman projecting to be high-end.

 

[Miller Time]

So if I understand this. The argument is as follows : Habs management does not want to trade the FLA pick so instead they risk losing a top 5OA in 2024 for one year of Dubois ? I seee how it is great for WPG not really for MTL.

If you add PLD and bank on the odds that the Habs won't lead the NHL in injury games lost, it's a pretty safe bet we are far from a bottom 5 team in the NHL next year.

But, even if we were, PLD extended to a long term deal, added to our current U25 talent + the Habs 2023 draft class, is worth it imo.

The goal is building a contender, not accumulation of high picks.

 

[RationalExpectations]

If you add PLD and bank on the odds that the Habs won't lead the NHL in injury games lost, it's a pretty safe bet we are far from a bottom 5 team in the NHL next year.

But, even if we were, PLD extended to a long term deal, added to our current U25 talent + the Habs 2023 draft class, is worth it imo.

The goal is building a contender, not accumulation of high picks.

If you offersheet PLD the 2024 pick is unprotected, then you may end up losing on a Stutzle, Makar or Hedman for PLD. Unacceptable.

You look at the Habs with Dubois they likely would still finish outside of the playoffs : they have had good goaltending but not elite, their Dcore is still growing, their forward core needs more experience / less injuries. I like Dach and Guhle but right now they are injured way too often to trust them with team‘s future.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So if I understand this. The argument is as follows : Habs management does not want to trade the FLA pick so instead they risk losing a top 5OA in 2024 for one year of Dubois ? I seee how it is great for WPG not really for MTL.

I don't see the Habs doing that. We stand to improve slightly more next season but no way I see Gorton/Hughes trading the Habs 1st for a while yet. Only do that when we are consistently in the top 10. Way too risky.

Dubois trade is about potential leverage of him giving most if not all other teams a no with the sign/trade. If that is at play, Beck, Habs early 2nd, Gurianov, and Tuch would be an offer most other teams can't touch if they try to trade for just the one RFA year.

No way I see other GM's trading for Dubois for just the one RFA year thinking they can "convince" him to stay. Jets already made that mistake.

If your the Jets, what offer do you like more if you are heading towards a mini rebuild? Pretty sure the Avs would offer Girard cause they have to.. cap space management. How much would the Jets like Girard?
Girard and Avs late 1st
vs
Beck, Habs early 2nd, Gurianov or Harris, and Tuch

Habs early 2nd is not far off from the Avs late 1st. 22-25 vs 37-40. If the Avs go on another run, their 1st gets worse.

Girard vs Harris?

 

[Miller Time]

If you offersheet PLD the 2024 pick is unprotected, then you may end up losing on a Stutzle, Makar or Hedman for PLD. Unacceptable.

You look at the Habs with Dubois they likely would still finish outside of the playoffs : they have had good goaltending but not elite, their Dcore is still growing, their forward core needs more experience / less injuries. I like Dach and Guhle but right now they are injured way too often to trust them with team‘s future.

You may also lose out on a Yakupov or draft a Bergeron with your 2nd round pick...

Draft is a roll of the dice. PLD is a known commodity that fits perfectly to our needs and core talent group age.

Again, the point isn't to draft high as much as possible, the point is building a contender. We're closer to that, imo, with PLD added to our current situation (+'23 draft class) than with the '24 first round pick.

Of course I'd prefer not giving up that pick. But I'd pay that price without hesitation.

 

[RationalExpectations]

You may also lose out on a Yakupov or draft a Bergeron with your 2nd round pick...

Draft is a roll of the dice. PLD is a known commodity that fits perfectly to our needs and core talent group age.

Again, the point isn't to draft high as much as possible, the point is building a contender. We're closer to that, imo, with PLD added to our current situation (+'23 draft class) than with the '24 first round pick.

Of course I'd prefer not giving up that pick. But I'd pay that price without hesitation.

The issue is that MTL is not close to contending. Sure Dubois improves your core. No doubt about that, he is the guy I want on my 2nd line to win a cup. But WPG shows that even with him Scheifele Connor Ehlers you can‘t succeed without good depth, which the Habs do not have yet and good D which Habs do not have yet.

You look at the Habs but you need to look at the rest of the East which will still be stacked : even with Dubois, MTL is weaker than CAR NYR NJD BOS TBL TOR NYI, then you may hope PIT to weaken because of core age but FLA is right here, BUF, OTT and DET have a better young core than MTL right now. MTL is not one Dubois away from contention, I don t spend that 2024 because in my opinion MTL won t be a lot better in 2024 as they are now. Of course you trade Hoffman, Anderson, get Dubois, you have a full Guhle Caufield Dach season you are closer to the playoffs but I have not seen a full season from Guhle and Dach at least so just stay the course be patient. Duchene and Karlsson trades are cautionary tales and you want to rush for another trade like that…

By the way I am one of the guys here saying you should not overvalue draft picks, just saying you need them when you are rebuilding and needing a 1C, a 1D, a 1G.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You may also lose out on a Yakupov or draft a Bergeron with your 2nd round pick...

Draft is a roll of the dice. PLD is a known commodity that fits perfectly to our needs and core talent group age.

Again, the point isn't to draft high as much as possible, the point is building a contender. We're closer to that, imo, with PLD added to our current situation (+'23 draft class) than with the '24 first round pick.

Of course I'd prefer not giving up that pick. But I'd pay that price without hesitation.

Gorton/Hughes are going to acquire Dubois without using the Panthers 1st and our two RD's (Barron and Mailloux). Roy won't be traded and the Jets probably don't like the undersized Hutson. I've even heard lots of their fans pass on Hutson.

Fans can laugh at this all they want but Beck, Habs early 2nd, Harris or Gurianov, and Tuch is my offer knowing what I know today. Jets deciding to turn that down thinking they can get better at the 24 TDL with distractions all season long and a possible injury to Dubois is not something I see them doing.

It does depend on what teams like the Avs and Canes try though. If Dubois is open to sign/trade with them too, we may have to trade Beck and the Panthers 1st.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The issue is that MTL is not close to contending. Sure Dubois improves your core. No doubt about that, he is the guy I want on my 2nd line to win a cup. But WPG shows that even with him Scheifele Connor Ehlers you can‘t succeed without good depth, which the Habs do not have yet and good D which Habs do not have yet.

You look at the Habs but you need to look at the rest of the East which will still be stacked : even with Dubois, MTL is weaker than CAR NYR NJD BOS TBL TOR NYI, then you may hope PIT to weaken because of core age but FLA is right here, BUF, OTT and DET have a better young core than MTL right now. MTL is not one Dubois away from contention, I don t spend that 2024 because in my opinion MTL won t be a lot better in 2024 as they are now. Of course you trade Hoffman, Anderson, get Dubois, you have a full Guhle Caufield Dach season you are closer to the playoffs but I have not seen a full season from Guhle and Dach at least so just stay the course be patient. Duchene and Karlsson trades are cautionary tales and you want to rush for another trade like that…

Adding Dubois with Suzuki and Dach as center depth is about how we look in 3+ years, not next season. You get Dubois for his prime like we have with Suzuki and you do it now so you can get him signed for a cap hit around Suzuki. With our without Dubois next season, we are slightly moving up the standings as we move forward so dreaming of lottery wins should not be our plan after this season. Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Guhle, Slaf and many others will help push us up. MSL will help push us up.

Beck is not going to be as good as Dubois and the Panthers 1st might be but probably not. I would try my best not to trade the Panthers 1st and our RD's though (Barron and Mailloux).

Saying no do Dubois at age 25 cause we need more pieces on top of Dubois is not smart. Our draft power is high but not all those picks will be hits. Mesar as a late 1st is a good example. Early yeah but is he a legit top 6F?

 

[WeThreeKings]

An Offersheet for PLD is the worst option.

Not only would it piss off the Jets.. but it also removes flexibility.. You could just do the same thing compensation wise in a trade and protect your 1st rounder.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

We have more than enough young pieces and picks to make a trade happen if the Jets are looking to settle it this summer. It's really not an issue IMO. I don't see much of a need to go the hostile offer route, unless the Jets are being completely ridiculous about their demands.

 

[General Fanager]

An Offersheet for PLD is the worst option.

Not only would it piss off the Jets.. but it also removes flexibility.. You could just do the same thing compensation wise in a trade and protect your 1st rounder.

they don't actually have to do the OS. They have to make The Jets think they will and then it might be a better negos.....

 

[WeThreeKings]

they don't actually have to do the OS. They have to make The Jets think they will and then it might be a better negos.....

If I was the Jets I wouldn't blink at the OS.. because if it is long term, I can match and keep the player.. and if it is short term, that 2024 1st is likely better than any asset that Montreal would be comfortable moving for Dubois.

 

[RationalExpectations]

If I was the Jets I wouldn't blink at the OS.. because if it is long term, I can match and keep the player.. and if it is short term, that 2024 1st is likely better than any asset that Montreal would be comfortable moving for Dubois.

Exactly why the offersheet is not an option MTL should consider.

 

[General Fanager]

If I was the Jets I wouldn't blink at the OS.. because if it is long term, I can match and keep the player.. and if it is short term, that 2024 1st is likely better than any asset that Montreal would be comfortable moving for Dubois.

what if Dubois is still pissed he was not traded last summer as was the rumor. Then he could sign a OS at 4.2 and the compensation is only a 2nd. The Jets get a 2nd or lose him next summer for nothing....

not the best idea for The Habs but its still a nightmare for The Jets

 

[RationalExpectations]

what if Dubois is still pissed he was not traded last summer as was the rumor. Then he could sign a OS at 4.2 and the compensation is only a 2nd. The Jets get a 2nd or lose him next summer for nothing....

not the best idea for The Habs but its still a nightmare for The Jets

Habs don t have their 2nd next year, thanks Bergevin

 

[MarkovsKnee]

The idea is that the Habs will be better in 2024.

Also, is that draft deep?

I'm not assuming anything about Montreal next year. We could be better, or worse. 5 more losses, and we're one of the bottom 3 teams again. 5 more wins only puts us in 10-12 range.

And, 2024 is looking fine. Macklin Celebrini (C) has been putting up 2 ppg in USHL in the 2nd half, putting up more overall points than Fantilli, Connor, Svechnikov, Jack Hughes and Jack Eichel in their D-1 year.

Cole Eiserman just broke Cole Caufield's U17 goal scoring record, and has a phenomenal release and shooting arsenal.

Ivan Demidov is dominating the MHL at 16. He finished 3rd in the league in scoring.

Unlike 2023, it's also a really deep draft for defensemen. One of whom is Adam Jiricek (RD), David Jiricek's younger brother, who has been playing in the Czech Men's League as a 16 year old.

There's absolutely no f***ing way I want anything to do with an unprotected 1st in 2024.

No one gives up blue chip prospects. Meier didn't get one. Horvat didn't get one. Those 2 trades are good comparables for PLD.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm not assuming anything about Montreal next year. We could be better, or worse. 5 more losses, and we're one of the bottom 3 teams again. 5 more wins only puts us in 10-12 range.

And, 2024 is looking fine. Macklin Celebrini (C) has been putting up 2 ppg in USHL in the 2nd half, putting up more overall points than Fantilli, Connor, Svechnikov, Jack Hughes and Jack Eichel in their D-1 year.

Cole Eiserman just broke Cole Caufield's U17 goal scoring record, and has a phenomenal release and shooting arsenal.

Ivan Demidov is dominating the MHL at 16. He finished 3rd in the league in scoring.

Unlike 2023, it's also a really deep draft for defensemen. One of whom is Adam Jiricek (RD), David Jiricek's younger brother, who has been playing in the Czech Men's League as a 16 year old.

There's absolutely no f***ing way I want anything to do with an unprotected 1st in 2024.

No one gives up blue chip prospects. Meier didn't get one. Horvat didn't get one. Those 2 trades are good comparables for PLD.

Parekh and Yaremchuk look really good too. Is Hagens this year or is he in the Misa class?