HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

[Habs Halifax]

i don't agree with your assessment at all. The hindsight lens seems to critique one approach, while conveniently ignoring the outcomes of another...

Chiarot, Edmundson, Savard and Petry, "added over the years", resulted in.... drum roll... literally the d-corp in place for one of the worst single seasons in franchise history

as others have already tried to explain, when we look at the context of the Laffs early playoff exits during their recent management tenure, the external factors and plain bad luck can't be ignored, nor can their tremendous overall success at winning hockey games. I'd be curious to see how the Laffs last 4-5 years stack up to any 4-5 year window in their history... i'd bet it sits among their franchise best.

Winning in the playoffs is far more fickle than the hindsight lens you apply takes into consideration. Duba's "strategy" for building his roster can't be divorced from the significant negative impact of the covid dampening of the cap. whereas for some teams, like ours, it ended up being a massively positive stroke of luck (habs roster, with the dmen you pointed out, doesn't make the playoffs without the play-in or the weird division alignment, and that magic playoff run.... a HOF caliber playoff performance does wonders for a team to make the outcome better than the sum of the parts).

Should Dubas have traded away some of the elite assets they had in place to try to land a Price caliber golie or a norris caliber top pairing dman? Perhaps... but, how many of those moved rosters over the past few seasons?

bottom line is that they did actively try to address their deficiencies at D and in net, working within the cap constraints they had. The list of dmen they did bring in reflects that. One better bounce or one less Galch brain fart and the entire narrative could easily be different about how they weren't "built for the playoffs"... not unlike how a few lucky bounces and one HOF goalie run fed the "clydesdale" narrative that just as quickly proved nonsense 1 short summer later.

The leafs have been one of the most competitive teams in the league throughout Dubas's tenure... a perennial contender that has been snakebitten at the worst moments. Happens.
They've also been under .610 win % 1x (.579) during his tenure... For context, Habs have been over .610% zero times in that span, and we had Carey Price in net 3 of those 5 years. Not sure the habs roster building is what you want to hold up as an example of what the laffs could or should've have emulated

nor is quoting a cup winning coach whose behavior towards players and management has left him on the outside looking in for several years

Dubas has not really improved that team but you can defend him if you wish. Their core is their previous top 10 picks (Rielly, Nylander, Marner, Matthews) and Tavares coming home. I don't give Dubois any credit to that.

If you want to take about inheritance with Bergevin and inability to fill the holes, that applies to Dubois as well.

I do think Dubas and the Leafs were affected by the flat cap so there is a bit of bad luck there.

 

[TomKosto]

Obviously,

But what Hutson is doing right now is uncharted, never seen, top 0.1%. He has more offensive production by himself than Fox and Makar D+1 combined. But it is much more than that.

He won't defend McDavid like Makar did. (The remarkable backcheck in the PO last year.) But the defensive concern are so overblown. He is far from a mess in his zone. With the puck on his sticks in the dzone, he almost always beat the forechecker and get the puck out of his zone cleanly, in situation where you would expect the D to pass it through the glass. He is a guy we will want for 25 min ++ on the ice, not only because of his insane offensive potential, but good transition player like Dach will be even better with Hutson feeding them the puck to start the rush from the dzone.

We will easily live with the fact that sometimes he is getting beaten by the outside or that he may lose many board battles because the rest is absolutely, absolutely elite.

I strongly doubt a player of Hutson talent will bust. I also think he has that "it" factor when watching him in interviews. But that is purely subjective.

Also, when i talk of trading Guhle, its all about getting an offensive star for him and profiting of his (possible) immense trade value. We dont even know if an offensive player worth Guhle will be available.

The only concern I see is his backskating, I do agree he has everything else (except size). Smaller defenseman like Hughes do se well in the NHL because of his skating. Still I'm super excited to have him in our prospect pool, as I think skating can be improve. We clearly lack a PP QB.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Why can't you go to Phoenix and instead of being a laughing stock for picking up contracts that never play, you offer them an Armia for a 7th rounder. Yep, they pick another big contract, but a guy that could actually play too.

Because they want contracts that insurance companies are paying and not them or contracts where the cap is far higher than the payout.

 

[ML16]

I don't agree he's easily replaceable with any stop gap type at 3C. I am open to trading him but expecting it to happen ASAP is not likely.

Other contenders could use him but the main issue is there is still a flat cap growth next season.

Indeed. Dvorak’s optimal trade window is in principe at TDL 2025, with retention. And he can be an adequate C3 in the meantime.

But if somehow he can fetch a decent return without retention (2nd/RHD, ie) - or even better, be included in a Dubois trade - I’d cost my losses with him this summer.

Without Dvorak, the Habs could go with Suzuki-Dach-2023 1st-Evans; or Suzuki-Dubois-Dach-Evans; even Suzuki-Dach-Evans-Belzile for one year could work.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Indeed. Dvorak’s optimal trade window is in principe at TDL 2025, with retention. And he can be an adequate C3 in the meantime.

But if somehow he can fetch a decent return without retention (2nd/RHD, ie) - or even better, be included in a Dubois trade - I’d cost my losses with him this summer.

Without Dvorak, the Habs could go with Suzuki-Dach-2023 1st-Evans; or Suzuki-Dubois-Dach-Evans; even Suzuki-Dach-Evans-Belzile for one year could work.

Personally, I like Dach with Suzuki and Caufield as a puck possession winger with size and ability to handle physical play. And he becomes insurance at center if someone gets hurt.

Adding Dubois helps in many ways. He can also play center or wing and as a center, he's good at faceoffs and provides a good 2nd line for MSL to use. Slaf and Anderson with him makes a good line.

Evans to me should be the 4th line center or depth guy. Belzile to me should be depth for Laval

So yeah, I am a fan of swapping Monahan for Dvorak if we can pull that off. For all we know, both are back next year and Dvorak is playing 4C while Evans is the spare forward.

 

[Rapala]

It's extremely rare that we agree on something but here we are!

Toronto failed to advance due to a lack of depth.

And there is the whole other side of the puck that isn't being looked at. 5v5 play in the post season is extremely important and the teams that are constantly winning the line vs line battle are usually the ones who move on. Reading that post felt like reading half a book.

 

[Rapala]

I agree. I am concerned by his injury.

I am very, very high on Guhle talent. I think he is a top pairing defenseman.

But with what Matheson is giving us, with the absolute emergence of Hutson (big wow) and Engstrom (big wow too). And we already have Xhekaj and Harris.

I would honestly use Guhle as a trade bait to acquire star offensive talent.

Let's see what the nutritionists and training staff can come up with over the summer. He needs to fill out if he hopes to survive the style of play he offers up on a regular basis.

 

[Lockin17]

Instead of going after PLD we should go after Askarov

Jordan Harris + Frorida pick (lotery protected) for Askarov ??
or
Logan Mailloux + 3rd rd for Askarov ?
or
Beck + Ylonen + 3rd rd for Askarov ?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Instead of going after PLD we should go after Askarov

Jordan Harris + Frorida pick (lotery protected) for Askarov ??
or
Logan Mailloux + 3rd rd for Askarov ?
or
Beck + Ylonen + 3rd rd for Askarov ?

Poile is gone. Askarov will not be traded.

 

[Destopcorner]

Poile is gone. Askarov will not be traded.

I'd give away the Jeannot Package for him and more. Sounds like Nashville wants to rebuild and we have the assets to make em think about it long and hard.

 

[Destopcorner]

Roy, Heineman, Kidney will all be in the AHL next season. I'm not even sure Pezzetta gets a QO. Dubois might not be traded here. You forgot Gurianov and Dvorak.

I see Roy surprising a camp and getting a look. He's one of our most talented player and watch out if he's healthy. Pezz will absolutely get his QO, he does everything he's ask for on the 4th line and actually produces good numbers while hitting everyone. Heineman has a pro game and is ready imo, his only AHL stint will be this year.

Dvorak and Gurianov are gone in Winnipeg in my scenario

 

[Sebastien]

I'd give away the Jeannot Package for him and more. Sounds like Nashville wants to rebuild and we have the assets to make em think about it long and hard.

Why would they trade G of the future for less than they selected him? Not happening

Instead of going after PLD we should go after Askarov

Jordan Harris + Frorida pick (lotery protected) for Askarov ??
or
Logan Mailloux + 3rd rd for Askarov ?
or
Beck + Ylonen + 3rd rd for Askarov ?

All of these are trash

 

[Destopcorner]

Why would they trade G of the future for less than they selected him? Not happening

Saros is still signed for years and I didn't say the offer so... what's less than they select him? I have no problem adding to Florida's first and it cost nothing to try doesn't it? He's a good target that's all.

 

[Scriptor]

You know that PLD is not a MTL player, that Roy Farrell Heineman have never played in the NHL, that Slaf has not convinced yet, that Anderson has never shown the ability to be a true top 6 player ? Would be great if they all turn in what you want them to turn into but it s not time to sell the whole pool for one player. And Askarov won t be traded.

Of course, everything Montreal sucks, has sucked and will continue to suck. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[BLONG7]

I agree. I am concerned by his injury.

I am very, very high on Guhle talent. I think he is a top pairing defenseman.

But with what Matheson is giving us, with the absolute emergence of Hutson (big wow) and Engstrom (big wow too). And we already have Xhekaj and Harris.

I would honestly use Guhle as a trade bait to acquire star offensive talent.

Easy........easy.....
We do not want to trade Guhlie..................his luck or lack of luck on the injury front is a little concerning, but no way do we trade another Dman who will become a heck of a great Dman ( Chelios, McDonough, Sergachev )

As you say there are many Dmen on board, and coming along, finally in a good spot from the back end.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Of course, everything Montreal sucks, has sucked and will continue to suck. Thanks for chiming in.

Man thanks for letting me know that MTL is a SC favorite ! This team has been bad since 16-17, got to lucky run due to Covid, and before that was only kept aflot by Price stellar play. I am a Habs which does not mean I cannot see that they are bottom 5.

You think they are a contender ? it s time to trade prospects because we feel some prospects may be good enough for the NHL ? What about the current Dcore, goalie situation ?

 

[ole ole]

Neither is Drai or RNH and they play wing a lot.

When did Dach start to look good for us? When he was on wing with Suzuki and Caufield. Dach did look good later on when we had to move him to center due to injuries.

Dach can play center or be a puck possession winger. This is a good option and good luck trying to move me off this stance.

Totally agree. If we end up getting Dubois having the option of moving one of them to the wing is great. Dach has already proved that he fits in great with Suzuki and Caufield.
That's a sick line. Then add in Dubois playing between Slaf and Anderson.

 

[Vachon23]

NSH have O reasons to trade Askarov and they won’t do it

 

[sampollock]

You know that PLD is not a MTL player, that Roy Farrell Heineman have never played in the NHL, that Slaf has not convinced yet, that Anderson has never shown the ability to be a true top 6 player ? Would be great if they all turn in what you want them to turn into but it s not time to sell the whole pool for one player. And Askarov won t be traded.

good point
pld has not been traded

HF even started a PLD thread, can't wait for this PLD talk to be done, hope we get him. but until then we need to stop talking like he is a hab

 

[SlyIslands]

I'd give away the Jeannot Package for him and more. Sounds like Nashville wants to rebuild and we have the assets to make em think about it long and hard.

If Nashville wants to rebuild, they will trade Saros

 

[BLONG7]

Man thanks for letting me know that MTL is a SC favorite ! This team has been bad since 16-17, got to lucky run due to Covid, and before that was only kept aflot by Price stellar play. I am a Habs which does not mean I cannot see that they are bottom 5.

You think they are a contender ? it s time to trade prospects because we feel some prospects may be good enough for the NHL ? What about the current Dcore, goalie situation ?

They have been awful since 17, thanks to a GM who had no brain.......................pretty sure you can see there is a huge difference now in 23...............and alot to be very happy and positive about.
Not sure anyone on this board thiks the habs are a contender....?

 

[Runner77]

good point
pld has not been traded

HF even started a PLD thread, can't wait for this PLD talk to be done, hope we get him. but until then we need to stop talking like he is a hab

You probably have the most PLD posts in this thread.

If PLD talk becomes done, what will you do? I think we might need new Fig monikers.

 

[BoneHutson]

Concerning Askarov, I dont think they absolutely want to keep him simply due to the fact that I cant see this team entering a full on rebuild with prime Josi and Forsberg on their team. So, assuming this TDL was a mere retool, I could definitely see them flipping Askarov for more offense (ideally around the same age).

One way to do this for the habs imo, would be to trade some of our veterans with value and use the acquired assets in an Askarov trade. EDM imo is the best spot possible for Anderson as they wont want to waste prime McJesus/Drai and might consider including a guy like Holloway in a trade as he has yet to contribute enough to help significantly his team in the playoffs (still elite potential imo). Lets say Holloway and a 2024 protected first (+ salaries like Yamamoto and/or Foegele) for Anderson and a 3rd.

Then, you can flip Holloway (drafted only a couple spots after Askarov) and the 12-15th OA pick for Askarov and a second or maybe even EDM’s first acquired in the Ekholm trade (around 29 OA).

That way, NAS gets a potential top 6 C and the opportunity to draft a guy like Moore, Leonard, Musty or Barlow (or whoever they value the most at that spot) without even getting weaker at G because they already have a young Saros whos an absolute stud. MTL gets a “potential” star G which is the thing we are lacking the most outside of a franchise forward.

 

[RationalExpectations]

They have been awful since 17, thanks to a GM who had no brain.......................pretty sure you can see there is a huge difference now in 23...............and alot to be very happy and positive about.
Not sure anyone on this board thiks the habs are a contender....?

I am not saying we can’t be positive I was mereley stating that a lineup - which was supposed to be great was composed of forwards who never set foot in the NHL yet and PLD as if he was already a Hab - cannot be seen as a sure thing.

There is a paradox in what you mention : most players and prospects we speak so highly of have been drafted by the brainless GM you mentioned…

 

[HuGort]

Use Guhle as trade bait.....

Save me little baby Jesus from this madness

Would you deal Guhle straight up for Dubois?