HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

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calder candidate

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The first 4 absolutely were top 4D caliber at time of acquisition... Probably another 2-3 as well.
The first 4 are the only one you can consider top4, Giodano as seen better day, Barrie was top 4 because of is offense but isn’t a guy you want to defend in the playoff… even if those were top 4 you didn’t 3 other guys and even if you think they did all had the same weakness.
 

Miller Time

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Habs added Chiarot, Edmundson, Savard, and Petry over the years. Leafs tried but they went after the wrong ones in many cases.

Muzzin and Brodie and then Giordano were the good adds but now Muzzin is toast and Giordano's gas is running out.

Dubas missed on the Kadri trade. That was a darn good value contract and he should have traded it for futures they could go after quality D that would be turning the needle on their roster today. They might have not been forced to add a 1st to unload Marleau as well.

Dubas's error is thinking they were ready to compete too early. His strategy was clearly top 6 and Rielly on D. Thought he could overcome depth issues and/or though his prospect pool was strong. Sens maybe making the same mistake but earlier. If Chychrun walks to UFA, imagine.

Babcock quote and it was a direct shot at Dubas: "We will find out very soon if our depth is as good as we say it is"

i don't agree with your assessment at all. The hindsight lens seems to critique one approach, while conveniently ignoring the outcomes of another...

Chiarot, Edmundson, Savard and Petry, "added over the years", resulted in.... drum roll... literally the d-corp in place for one of the worst single seasons in franchise history :lol:

as others have already tried to explain, when we look at the context of the Laffs early playoff exits during their recent management tenure, the external factors and plain bad luck can't be ignored, nor can their tremendous overall success at winning hockey games. I'd be curious to see how the Laffs last 4-5 years stack up to any 4-5 year window in their history... i'd bet it sits among their franchise best.

Winning in the playoffs is far more fickle than the hindsight lens you apply takes into consideration. Duba's "strategy" for building his roster can't be divorced from the significant negative impact of the covid dampening of the cap. whereas for some teams, like ours, it ended up being a massively positive stroke of luck (habs roster, with the dmen you pointed out, doesn't make the playoffs without the play-in or the weird division alignment, and that magic playoff run.... a HOF caliber playoff performance does wonders for a team to make the outcome better than the sum of the parts).

Should Dubas have traded away some of the elite assets they had in place to try to land a Price caliber golie or a norris caliber top pairing dman? Perhaps... but, how many of those moved rosters over the past few seasons?

bottom line is that they did actively try to address their deficiencies at D and in net, working within the cap constraints they had. The list of dmen they did bring in reflects that. One better bounce or one less Galch brain fart and the entire narrative could easily be different about how they weren't "built for the playoffs"... not unlike how a few lucky bounces and one HOF goalie run fed the "clydesdale" narrative that just as quickly proved nonsense 1 short summer later.

The leafs have been one of the most competitive teams in the league throughout Dubas's tenure... a perennial contender that has been snakebitten at the worst moments. Happens.
They've also been under .610 win % 1x (.579) during his tenure... For context, Habs have been over .610% zero times in that span, and we had Carey Price in net 3 of those 5 years. Not sure the habs roster building is what you want to hold up as an example of what the laffs could or should've have emulated

nor is quoting a cup winning coach whose behavior towards players and management has left him on the outside looking in for several years
 

Miller Time

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The first 4 are the only one you can consider top4, Giodano as seen better day, Barrie was top 4 because of is offense but isn’t a guy you want to defend in the playoff… even if those were top 4 you didn’t 3 other guys and even if you think they did all had the same weakness.

Barrie isn't a guy you want to defend in the playoffs eh?

what about Shattenkirk?
or Vince Dunn?

look, i get it... it's fun to rag on the laffs. Not trying to take that away. But it's silly to ignore that they have in fact been quite aggressive in trying to adjust and tweak their cup contending caliber roster to address gaps each of the past few seasons.

It hasn't worked, but that isn't as simple as the convenient (and blatantly wrong) narrative that they aren't "built for the playoffs", and worse still that they haven't tried to upgrade their D.
 

calder candidate

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Barrie isn't a guy you want to defend in the playoffs eh?

what about Shattenkirk?
or Vince Dunn?

look, i get it... it's fun to rag on the laffs. Not trying to take that away. But it's silly to ignore that they have in fact been quite aggressive in trying to adjust and tweak their cup contending caliber roster to address gaps each of the past few seasons.

It hasn't worked, but that isn't as simple as the convenient (and blatantly wrong) narrative that they aren't "built for the playoffs", and worse still that they haven't tried to upgrade their D.
Not saying they haven’t tried or it is easy but the clearly they when for the wrong player when Reilly is your #1D maybe Barrie is a ideal target… and they spend a ton of asset for Foligno to bring grit to that bottom 6 when they could have spent those asset on D… they when out and got ROR, before making a move to help their D… shattenkirk and Dunn are complementary top 4 if there no Pietrangelo, Paryko, Edmundson type guy to clear the front of the net, break the cycle on the board and play defense there efficiency will be reduce significantly especially in the playoff. It doesn’t matter how many time they tried when they didn’t prioritize that issue and when they did, they didn’t target the right kind of guy and were force to make move because of cap issues they were poorly constructed there regular season success are kind of meaningless when they can’t win one round of playoff vs. some one the worst regular season team…
 

calder candidate

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fair enough...

i'm more bullish on his ability to progress into an effective top-4 dman so would rather hold on moving him unless the return blows our socks off
I agree Barron is pretty close to be a top 4 D, just his skating and size alone make him a NHL Dman and he is a lot more aggressive vs. earlier this year with a good off season and more experience he will be a effective player even if he never be a bruiser. With Guhle and Xhekaj on the left side I don’t think he will even need to be overly physically he just need not to be soft. Considering that RD is our weakest position it need to be crazy return.
 

Slafkofield

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If we don't want him, hard to see another team wanting him.

He's the type of player that gets thrown into a trade to balance the cap hits.
I’m sure he has value, maybe not what Bergevin paid, but I’m sure he can get moved. Doesn’t really fit MSL’s style imo. Maybe to LA in a deal for Turcotte?

What's your center depth plan if you trade Dvorak?
Suzuki
Dach
Monahan (if ever he can stay healthy)
Evans
 

Scriptor

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How can Hughes bring on another Dach type of player if he has so many useless vets that can't be moved? You have to subtract before you can add...
What do you mean?

You can add players and move a useless vet to Laval after he clears waivers.

Nothing would remotely prevent Hughes from bringing on another Dach type, as long as there is cap space and there should be plenty left for that type of a move.

Barrie isn't a guy you want to defend in the playoffs eh?

what about Shattenkirk?
or Vince Dunn?

look, i get it... it's fun to rag on the laffs. Not trying to take that away. But it's silly to ignore that they have in fact been quite aggressive in trying to adjust and tweak their cup contending caliber roster to address gaps each of the past few seasons.

It hasn't worked, but that isn't as simple as the convenient (and blatantly wrong) narrative that they aren't "built for the playoffs", and worse still that they haven't tried to upgrade their D.
No, but it doesn't,t chase, either, the narrative that both Matthews and Marners are chokers.
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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If say the Flames would take a large of his salary, I wouldn't mind taking Huberdeau this summer. If we could pay him around say 7 million.
No team is going to have 3.5 mill in dead cap space for 8 years.

I think if the Flames get rid if Sutter he might do better.

However, even if he is better with a different coach, there's too much talk of him being somewhat lazy and uninspired to play when he isn't paid anymore
 

HuGort

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If Michkov still on board at 5? Decent chance he is. Habs could get Bedard level return for their pick. Imagine there is a GM out there in love with Michkov.
 

Miller Time

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No, but it doesn't,t chase, either, the narrative that both Matthews and Marners are chokers.

Marner is 1.1ppg for his career in the regular season (498 games)
Marner is .8 ppg for his career in the playoffs (39 games)

.3ppg difference in productivity

Matthews is 1.13ppg for his career in the regular season (471 games)
Matthews is .8ppg for his career in the playoffs (39 games)
*1.05ppg in his last 3 playoffs seasons

.33ppg difference in productivity

Crosby is 1.27ppg for his career regular season (1180 games)
Crosby is 1,1ppg for his career playoffs (180 games)

.17ppg difference

Ovechkin is 1.1ppg for his career regular season (1341 games)
Ovechkin is .95ppg for his career playoffs (147 games)

.16ppg difference

Your "choker" narrative is not supported by the facts. A bit less productive in the playoffs vs the regular season... sure. "chokers"? that's just silly hyperbole... even elite, cup-winning, all-time great players see a drop in production in the playoffs vs regular season.

I don't know that anyone is making the case that Matthews or Marner are Crosby/Ovechkin level... I certainly wouldn't. They are marginally less productive than thos two greats when it comes to playoff production and differential from the playoffs.

Chokers? don't be silly.
 

Belial

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Marner is 1.1ppg for his career in the regular season (498 games)
Marner is .8 ppg for his career in the playoffs (39 games)

.3ppg difference in productivity

Matthews is 1.13ppg for his career in the regular season (471 games)
Matthews is .8ppg for his career in the playoffs (39 games)
*1.05ppg in his last 3 playoffs seasons

.33ppg difference in productivity

Crosby is 1.27ppg for his career regular season (1180 games)
Crosby is 1,1ppg for his career playoffs (180 games)

.17ppg difference

Ovechkin is 1.1ppg for his career regular season (1341 games)
Ovechkin is .95ppg for his career playoffs (147 games)

.16ppg difference

Your "choker" narrative is not supported by the facts. A bit less productive in the playoffs vs the regular season... sure. "chokers"? that's just silly hyperbole... even elite, cup-winning, all-time great players see a drop in production in the playoffs vs regular season.

I don't know that anyone is making the case that Matthews or Marner are Crosby/Ovechkin level... I certainly wouldn't. They are marginally less productive than thos two greats when it comes to playoff production and differential from the playoffs.

Chokers? don't be silly.
It's extremely rare that we agree on something but here we are!

Toronto failed to advance due to a lack of depth.
 

Scriptor

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Marner is 1.1ppg for his career in the regular season (498 games)
Marner is .8 ppg for his career in the playoffs (39 games)

.3ppg difference in productivity

Matthews is 1.13ppg for his career in the regular season (471 games)
Matthews is .8ppg for his career in the playoffs (39 games)
*1.05ppg in his last 3 playoffs seasons

.33ppg difference in productivity

Crosby is 1.27ppg for his career regular season (1180 games)
Crosby is 1,1ppg for his career playoffs (180 games)

.17ppg difference

Ovechkin is 1.1ppg for his career regular season (1341 games)
Ovechkin is .95ppg for his career playoffs (147 games)

.16ppg difference

Your "choker" narrative is not supported by the facts. A bit less productive in the playoffs vs the regular season... sure. "chokers"? that's just silly hyperbole... even elite, cup-winning, all-time great players see a drop in production in the playoffs vs regular season.

I don't know that anyone is making the case that Matthews or Marner are Crosby/Ovechkin level... I certainly wouldn't. They are marginally less productive than thos two greats when it comes to playoff production and differential from the playoffs.

Chokers? don't be silly.
They will be chokers until they get past the first round. Results are what counts.

I'm not a fan, though, so there might be a bit of bias ;)
 

Destopcorner

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Caufield-Suzy-Roy
RHP-Dubois-Andy
Farell-Dach-Slaf
Heineman-Evans-Armia/Pezz/Belzile
Gally Hoffman

Not much space in that top 9 for Mesar, Kidney, Heineman, Tuch etc...

We really dont need another 11 picks this year.. Please offer many of em for Askarov.
 
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Slafkofield

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May 1, 2022
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Caufield-Suzy-Roy
RHP-Dubois-Andy
Farell-Dach-Slaf
Heineman-Evans-Armia/Pezz/Belzile
Gally Hoffman

Not much space in that top 9 for Mesar, Kidney, Heineman, Tuch etc...

We really dont need another 11 picks this year.. Please offer many of em for Askarov.
I doubt the Preds would move him, but damn it would be crazy if we acquired him. Never know with Kent…
 

RationalExpectations

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Caufield-Suzy-Roy
RHP-Dubois-Andy
Farell-Dach-Slaf
Heineman-Evans-Armia/Pezz/Belzile
Gally Hoffman

Not much space in that top 9 for Mesar, Kidney, Heineman, Tuch etc...

We really dont need another 11 picks this year.. Please offer many of em for Askarov.
You know that PLD is not a MTL player, that Roy Farrell Heineman have never played in the NHL, that Slaf has not convinced yet, that Anderson has never shown the ability to be a true top 6 player ? Would be great if they all turn in what you want them to turn into but it s not time to sell the whole pool for one player. And Askarov won t be traded.
 
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