HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[Boss Man Hughes]

And next year assuming Monahan leaves?

I'd rather not trade Dvorak until we know we have both 2C and 3C covered.

They will have Suzuki, Dach, possibly Dubois, 1st line c form 2023 draft, Monahan, Mysak, Beck, Evans. No need for Dvorak. If someone is willing to overpay move him.

At some point Hughes will have accumulated enough additional prospects and draft picks, and he should focus less on selling. Adding five additional picks would be too much in my opinion.

Can't have too many draft picks. As Hughes says draft picks = trade capital.

 

[le_sean]

Actually I see another trade coming between Montreal and Calgary. There are stacked on the Blueline and we have 15 forwards

Calgary will be a serious contender if they manage to trade one of their bottom pairing defenders (Kylington, Zadorov or Valimaki) for middle six scoring help. They’d have 3 really good lines as opposed to relying on the top line like last season.

 

[BaseballCoach]

They will have Suzuki, Dach, possibly Dubois, 1st line c form 2023 draft, Monahan, Mysak, Beck, Evans. No need for Dvorak. If someone is willing to overpay move him.

Dubois would be 2C and Monahan staying would be 3C, so yeah can move Dvorak.

But neither thing is sure.

 

[SOLR]

2023 pick will likely be a C (bedard, fantilli, Yager, carlsson) We’ll have suzuki, Dach, Evans and a guy like Beck/Mysak, who knows for monahan. No need of a dubois imo.

Fantilli and Yager are wingers.

 

[SlafySZN]

Fantilli and Yager are wingers.

Both can play center & wing.

There’s more chance Bedard plays wing than Fantilli in the NHL.

 

[Scriptor]

Both can play center & wing.

There’s more chance Bedard plays wing than Fantilli in the NHL.

Fantilli will definitely play C in the NHL.

 

[blarneylad]

And next year assuming Monahan leaves?

I'd rather not trade Dvorak until we know we have both 2C and 3C covered.

Trade or free agency.

What is the insecurity regarding next year? Think we are competing? I will tell you if Dach doesn’t step into the 2c role we won’t be competing with Dvorak there in his stead.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

Fantilli and Yager are wingers.

Since when is Fantilli a winger?

Everything I've ever seen written about him is that he's a Center. Admittedly I haven't watched a ton of his games, but every time I've seen him he's playing center.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

Trade or free agency.

What is the insecurity regarding next year? Think we are competing? I will tell you if Dach doesn’t step into the 2c role we won’t be competing with Dvorak there in his stead.

We also won't be competing with Jake Allen as the defacto number one goalie.

Or with Mike Matheson as our number one defenseman.

We just simply won't be competing. This year will be a development year for our young players, a year to get rid of some expiring contracts for some draft picks/prospects, and a year that we will hopefully get at least one more elite piece for the core group moving forward. (Two would be better)

It will be frustrating at times, but some short term pain for long term gain is the correct way to develop and will pay off (hopefully many times) down the road.

 

[SOLR]

Since when is Fantilli a winger?

Everything I've ever seen written about him is that he's a Center. Admittedly I haven't watched a ton of his games, but every time I've seen him he's playing center.

It's been written plenty, he's playing as center now because he dominates all aspects of the game at his current level. He looks like a winger when you apply the limiting factors of good competition, Maxpac style (he's an awkward playmaker and the decision-making is not quite there). In others words, we can draft him in the hope he's a center, or we can draft a real center like Carlsson or Dvorsky.

Both can play center & wing.

There’s more chance Bedard plays wing than Fantilli in the NHL.

Nope, not at all.

Centers are high in hockey IQ....

People get confused about the best-on-best scenario vs. the league scenario. Crosby on the Olympic team was a winger, Crosby in the NHL is a center. Bedard might be in that same style, too much iQ to hide him on the wing in the NHL. Fantilli's skills seem to connect into a power winger, at center in the NHL he will sacrifice a lot of offence. We already saw at the U18 how Fantilli could not control the game at center when there is competition.

 

[HuGort]

Calgary will be a serious contender if they manage to trade one of their bottom pairing defenders (Kylington, Zadorov or Valimaki) for middle six scoring help. They’d have 3 really good lines as opposed to relying on the top line like last season.

I was thinking about trading Dvorak. But can't see Kent moving him at start of season where Dach and Monahan both ? at center. Maybe at deadline when more is known.

Habs have first pick at waivers anyway. Maybe get depth on D then?

They will have Suzuki, Dach, possibly Dubois, 1st line c form 2023 draft, Monahan, Mysak, Beck, Evans. No need for Dvorak. If someone is willing to overpay move him.

Dubois rather sign as UFA. Going to costs a lot, then could rent out his cap space next year. For extra year of Dubois, probably cost 2 or even 3 first picks

 

[DAChampion]

It's been written plenty, he's playing as center now because he dominates all aspects of the game at his current level. He looks like a winger when you apply the limiting factors of good competition, Maxpac style (he's an awkward playmaker and the decision-making is not quite there). In others words, we can draft him in the hope he's a center, or we can draft a real center like Carlsson or Dvorsky.



Nope, not at all.

Centers are high in hockey IQ....

People get confused about the best-on-best scenario vs. the league scenario. Crosby on the Olympic team was a winger, Crosby in the NHL is a center. Bedard might be in that same style, too much iQ to hide him on the wing in the NHL. Fantilli's skills seem to connect into a power winger, at center in the NHL he will sacrifice a lot of offence. We already saw at the U18 how Fantilli could not control the game at center when there is competition.

I recall Crosby centering Eric Staal and ... Either Iginla or Nash at the Olympics, did the lines change?

I was thinking about trading Dvorak. But can't see Kent moving him at start of season where Dach and Monahan both ? at center. Maybe at deadline when more is known.

Habs have first pick at waivers anyway. Maybe get depth on D then?


Dubois rather sign as UFA. Going to costs a lot, then could rent out his cap space next year. For extra year of Dubois, probably cost 2 or even 3 first picks

I'm guessing that Hughes is open and willing to trade Dvorak but he's waiting for a satisfactory offer.

 

[SOLR]

I recall Crosby centering Eric Staal and ... Either Iginla or Nash at the Olympics, did the lines change?


I'm guessing that Hughes is open and willing to trade Dvorak but he's waiting for a satisfactory offer.

What Olympics we are talking about? I'm thinking of Crosby with Bergeron and Marchand.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Trade or free agency.

What is the insecurity regarding next year? Think we are competing? I will tell you if Dach doesn’t step into the 2c role we won’t be competing with Dvorak there in his stead.

What is the insecurity with Dvorak? A perfectly fine 3C who can kill penalties and win faceoffs, and who is only 26 and costs less than a similar guy in Free Agency would.

Even if Dach steps up, we still need another middle 6 center. Dvorak can be traded when someone is ready to grab that role from him.

 

[DAChampion]

What is the insecurity with Dvorak? A perfectly fine 3C who can kill penalties and win facedoffs, and who is only 26 and costs less than a similar guy in Free Agency would.

Even if Dach steps up, we still need another middle 6 center. Dvorak can be traded when someone is ready to grab that role from him.

Dvorak is being paid a lot for a 3C (Bergevin brought him in as a 2C), and the team already has Suzuki, Dach, Monahan, and Evans.

If the Habs are still healthy at the 20-game mark or so I expect Dvorak to be traded for futures.

 

[SOLR]

What is the insecurity with Dvorak? A perfectly fine 3C who can kill penalties and win facedoffs, and who is only 26 and costs less than a similar guy in Free Agency would.

Even if Dach steps up, we still need another middle 6 center. Dvorak can be traded when someone is ready to grab that role from him.

Don't think there is insecurity, I think it's all about getting more 2023 draft assets and that's why you trade him. With Monahan in the picture now, it certainly feels like he's more expendable.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Don't think there is insecurity, I think it's all about getting more 2023 draft assets and that's why you trade him. With Monahan in the picture now, it certainly feels like he's more expandable.

Monahan has become more damaged than Drouin and Byron.

If he defies the odds and is healthy and productive all year AND we bring him back, Dvorak could be expENDable.

However, don't kid yourself that Dvorak is too expensive for what he brings. A contract at 1/19 of cap for his role is reasonable. If Monahan scores 0.54 ppg expect him to sign for much more than $4.45M and he is 2 years older than DVO.

Dvorak is being paid a lot for a 3C

LOL

 

[Habs Halifax]

We’re looking to trade some of our players at the deadline. If we put them on waivers at full salary and someone takes them we lose them for nothing. If no one takes them, that that shows the rest of the teams that no one wants them and we lose bargaining leverage at the TDL. Better to trade now before the season starts just from an asset management perspective then lose things for free or little return

Defenseman and centers return the most at the deadline. And also players with value contracts or are in their prime like Toffoli and Lehkonen.

First of all, We are not going to loose a player through waivers cause most of our guys cap hit it too high in this flat cap.

Second of all, Lets say we do loose someone like Hoffman, Armia, Byron, Drouin, Dadonov on waivers. That's a good thing. Not a bad thing. We are not getting 1st and 2nd round picks for these guys at the deadline. Maybe a 2nd but that's wishful thinking.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Defenseman and centers return the most at the deadline. And also players with value contracts or are in their prime like Toffoli and Lehkonen.

First of all, We are not going to loose a player through waivers cause most of our guys cap hit it too high in this flat cap.

Second of all, Lets say we do loose someone like Hoffman, Armia, Byron, Drouin, Dadonov on waivers. That's a good thing. Not a bad thing. We are not getting 1st and 2nd round picks for these guys at the deadline. Maybe a 2nd but that's wishful thinking.

We start the season with 14F, Byron on IR and Pezzetta in minors. Or we waive one vet who sucks at camp. Or there is one more injury and we don't have to choose yet.

Hoffman or Armia will not be traded at the 2023 deadline.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dubois would be 2C and Monahan staying would be 3C, so yeah can move Dvorak.

But neither thing is sure.

If there is any trade for Dubois, Dvorak is in that package IMO. Jets are thin after Scheifele up the middle and he needs a new contract soon as well.

Jets would want a young center too. Kidney would be the logical choice.

 

[SOLR]

Monahan has become more damaged than Drouin and Byron.

If he defies the odds and is healthy and productive all year AND we bring him back, Dvorak could be expENDable.

However, don't kid yourself that Dvorak is too expensive for what he brings. A contract at 1/19 of cap for his role is reasonable. If Monahan scores 0.54 ppg expect him to sign for much more than $4.45M and he is 2 years older than DVO.


LOL

Didn't say he was expensive. He's cheap for what he offers and that's why he will get traded, regardless of Monahan's health (or production). Getting a good return for Dvorak is a lot more strategically important than playing him.

 

[Runner77]

Dvorak is being paid a lot for a 3C (Bergevin brought him in as a 2C), and the team already has Suzuki, Dach, Monahan, and Evans.

If the Habs are still healthy at the 20-game mark or so I expect Dvorak to be traded for futures.

I know Hughes provided assurances about Monahan’s health further to the Habs’ due diligence but, I would much rather wait and see how durable and mobile he may be.

Who knows, if the coach would rather have him as a winger say to someone like Dach. With all the medical issues Monahan has been through, I prefer to be more cautious about his possible impact and deployment this season.

 

[26Mats]

I know Hughes provided assurances about Monahan’s health further to the Habs’ due diligence but, I would much rather wait and see how durable and mobile he may be.

Who knows, if the coach would rather have him as a winger say to someone like Dach. With all the medical issues Monahan has been through, I prefer to be more cautious about his possible impact and deployment this season.

Yeah it would be shocking if all of a sudden Monahan were able to be effective again after all those injuries.

Even if he is healthy Flames fans seem to think he should have been converted to a winger even in his prime. They say he mainly creates offense by parking himself in front of the net and finishing all the work Gaudreau used to do.

So I say maybe he works on Dach's wing, and can take the draws if Dach still can't. But, if he's too washed up, I don't want him playing with Dach. I'd also be interested to see if he can finish up Cole and Suzi's plays. That combo could potential get his trade value up by the deadline.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Getting a good return for Dvorak is a lot more strategically important than playing him.

Not if he is part of the team Hughes wants to contend with.

DVO can be 3C if Dach is a strong 2C, and then we just have to focus on using our firsts to acquire strong D and a goalie,who should easily fit in our cap.

 

[Steve Shutt]

We start the season with 14F, Byron on IR and Pezzetta in minors. Or we waive one vet who sucks at camp. Or there is one more injury and we don't have to choose yet.

Hoffman or Armia will not be traded at the 2023 deadline.

Pezzetta would need to pass through waivers to be assigned to Laval