HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[Boss Man Hughes]

we wouldnt even get a 1st round pick for Allen no way Dallas offers a top prospect like Bourque

Bourque may be a glass body but they won't trade him unless it adds something they need to be a contender.

 

[sampollock]

Allen will stay a hab.. Price needs to give the habs a answer on health

 

[DAChampion]

Is anyone surprised by this?



Of course, it doesn’t take anything away from the usual, expected value from non first rounders to fill other needs in a lineup.

Also, one could argue about where the cutoffs were in defining a “star” but the gyst of the argument remains — Habs trading for a 3rd 1st rounder in 2023 remains the jugular.

Rounds are arbitrary cutoffs as the 25th overall is much closer to the 35th overall than to the 1st overall. But most of the "advanced stats" community probably doesn't know how to fit to a power law.

The other error (which may just be due to the tweet) is that the 1% success rate in the latter rounds needs to be compared to the success rate in the first round ... Is it 10%?

Lastly, forwards, dmen, and goalies need to be evaluated separately.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Rounds are arbitrary cutoffs as the 25th overall is much closer to the 35th overall than to the 1st overall. But most of the "advanced stats" community probably doesn't know how to fit to a power law.

The other error (which may just be due to the tweet) is that the 1% success rate in the latter rounds needs to be compared to the success rate in the first round ... Is it 10%?

Lastly, forwards, dmen, and goalies need to be evaluated separately.

Bader's stuff isn't that "advanced" relative to what teams actually have. Outside of his NHLe model (which is entirely point based), he's just counting goals, assists and points. Analytics departments around the NHL have access to a lot more information from other leagues. The information it provides is useful, but not nearly enough to make the kinds of conclusions he draws.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Allen will stay a hab.. Price needs to give the habs a answer on health

Allen will not be part of the Habs future. He's as good as gone. It's a question of when, not if.

 

[Lshap]

Don't know when or for who but I know these players will not be on this team past TDL:
Dadonov
Drouin
Allan
Byron

Possibly also gone but not as time sensitive:
Dvorak
Hoffman

Price - LTIR or retirement within next 2 years.

We should still be able to get some pretty good picks and prospects back for 2023 and then I'd say Habs will be ready to really start moving forward and try to become more competitive, once the deadweight is gone, cap is available and kids start taking more prominent roles.

Dvorak is an interesting player. There's a real possibility he has a strong season, which would make him worth keeping.

I've already shot my mouth off about Allen being worth re-signing. Reliable goalies are hard to find. We have one and could probably re-sign him for a very reasonable price. Caveats: Primeau takes the next step in development / Habs surprise us by trading for someone like John Gibson / Habs get an offer they can't refuse for Allen.

Other than those two players, I agree that trading away everyone else is a no-brainer.

 

[JuJu Mobb]

Kadri is out there.... NYI waiting for a drum roll or what?

Pffffff, forget Kadri.

Phil the Thrill Kessel is still available. He had offensive defenseman stats last year : 82gms 8g 44a 52pts.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Dvorak is an interesting player. There's a real possibility he has a strong season, which would make him worth keeping.

I've already shot my mouth off about Allen being worth re-signing. Reliable goalies are hard to find. We have one and could probably re-sign him for a very reasonable price. Caveats: Primeau takes the next step in development / Habs surprise us by trading for someone like John Gibson / Habs get an offer they can't refuse for Allen.

Other than those two players, I agree that trading away everyone else is a no-brainer.

I like Allan as a backup as well and he definitely gets the Rodney Dangerfield experience here for the most part. But as far as goalies go, Hughes made it obvious by stating the Habs didn’t have a no. 1 goalie lat year. So with Montebault signed 2 years, Primeau coming up and Price likely done, there’s no need for Allan and they can use his cap to try and find a serviceable no. 1 if need be. Allan is a luxury we don’t need and can’t afford. Thanks why I think he’ll be moved before end of this year.

 

[sampollock]

Allen will not be part of the Habs future. He's as good as gone. It's a question of when, not if.

I meant he is here this year for sure.

 

[HuGort]

we wouldnt even get a 1st round pick for Allen no way Dallas offers a top prospect like Bourque

I would keep Allen then. Get a 2nd at deadline. No sense trading him now for less. Especially with question marks Montreal has in net

we wouldnt even get a 1st round pick for Allen no way Dallas offers a top prospect like Bourque

I would keep Allen then. Get a 2nd at deadline. No sense trading him now for less. Especially with question marks Montreal has in net

 

[Sebastien]

I would keep Allen then. Get a 2nd at deadline. No sense trading him now for less. Especially with question marks Montreal has in net


I would keep Allen then. Get a 2nd at deadline. No sense trading him now for less. Especially with question marks Montreal has in net

Marc Andre Fleury got a 2nd round pick and that was based on who he's, not his game! Some of you are preparing to be disappointed again

 

[Sterling Archer]

I meant he is here this year for sure.

Part of it at least. Expiring contract and no playoffs will make him very tradable at the deadline.

 

[HabzSauce]

I like Allan as a backup as well and he definitely gets the Rodney Dangerfield experience here for the most part. But as far as goalies go, Hughes made it obvious by stating the Habs didn’t have a no. 1 goalie lat year. So with Montebault signed 2 years, Primeau coming up and Price likely done, there’s no need for Allan and they can use his cap to try and find a serviceable no. 1 if need be. Allan is a luxury we don’t need and can’t afford. Thanks why I think he’ll be moved before end of this year.

A tandem of Primeau and montembault would be a disaster.

The goalie market is hot trash right now. We would need a replacement if we get rid of Allen and/or price is still on LTIR.

 

[tazsub3]

Marc Andre Fleury got a 2nd round pick and that was based on who he's, not his game! Some of you are preparing to be disappointed again

Yea however salary cap had something to do with that. Allen is on a much better contract and more suiters might be there .
Cause by you saying that I ask you if you ever expected kulak to net a second ?

 

[Sterling Archer]

A tandem of Primeau and montembault would be a disaster.

The goalie market is hot trash right now. We would need a replacement if we get rid of Allen and/or price is still on LTIR.

I’m not saying that will be the tandem. I’m saying if, and it’s likely, the Habs are out of the playoffs by the TDL, Allan is gone. We won’t need him to play out the remainder of the season and lose him for nothing to miss the playoffs.

I also said, Hughes is looking for a no. 1 goalie which he already said Allan was not. So move one of the 3 backup goalies, you have and whose contract is up anyways to get an asset in return.

Why wouldn’t you trade him at the deadline if you’re out of the playoffs? I can’t think of a single reason why you wouldn’t.

 

[SwiftyHab]

Marc Andre Fleury got a 2nd round pick and that was based on who he's, not his game! Some of you are preparing to be disappointed again

That was based on his salary cap and Vegas’ desperation to move him

 

[Captain Mountain]

That was based on his salary cap and Vegas’ desperation to move him

It was also a conditional 2nd that could convert to a 1st and Fleury was only willing to go to a couple of teams and would have retired if he was traded elsewhere. Hell, he was considering retirement when he got traded to Chicago.

 

[FormerLurker]

If the medical reports on Price's knee are positive and if Vegas is indeed interested in him, then we could send him there without retention for Lehner (3x5M), Roy (5x3M), and Whitecloud (6x2.75M), which would be close to a salary neutral trade. Lehner goes on LTIR this year, giving us room to sign Dach, and we ride Allen/Monty in goal this season. Trade Allen at the deadline and Monty/Primeau finish the year. Then Lehner/Primeau in 2023-24.

We get two young cost-controlled depth assets in Roy and Whitecloud, both on long-term team-friendly deals. And Price gets a chance to win in Vegas, if he's healthy, and if he waives his NMC.

 

[Sebastien]

That was based on his salary cap and Vegas’ desperation to move him

No I am talking about when Minnesota dealt for him

Yea however salary cap had something to do with that. Allen is on a much better contract and more suiters might be there .
Cause by you saying that I ask you if you ever expected kulak to net a second ?

It wasn't salary cap..some of you here are holding on to reason of the past to believe Jake Allen is worth something like thus when he's not. GM'S don't view G like this anymore . You know who Edmonton gm is right?

 

[Skip Bayless]

Pffffff, forget Kadri.

Phil the Thrill Kessel is still available. He had offensive defenseman stats last year : 82gms 8g 44a 52pts.

Pair him with Jordan Harris and let him teach the kid how to play defense

 

[HabzSauce]

I’m not saying that will be the tandem. I’m saying if, and it’s likely, the Habs are out of the playoffs by the TDL, Allan is gone. We won’t need him to play out the remainder of the season and lose him for nothing to miss the playoffs.

I also said, Hughes is looking for a no. 1 goalie which he already said Allan was not. So move one of the 3 backup goalies, you have and whose contract is up anyways to get an asset in return.

Why wouldn’t you trade him at the deadline if you’re out of the playoffs? I can’t think of a single reason why you wouldn’t.

We still need a goalie for next year and onwards though. If we trade Allen who we going to replace him with?

UFA 2023 for goalies looks like dogmeat. I'm not saying we have to keep him especially if we get a good offer at TDL, but we do need to figure out who the hell is going to replace him.

I don't agree that we have two backups in Montembault and Primeau either. Montembault is borderline backup, and Primeau is the same. Allen is a TRUE backup goalie and among the best in the league. So if we trade him, that leaves us with two 3rd string goalies basically.

 

[Sterling Archer]

We still need a goalie for next year and onwards though. If we trade Allen who we going to replace him with?

UFA 2023 for goalies looks like dogmeat. I'm not saying we have to keep him especially if we get a good offer at TDL, but we do need to figure out who the hell is going to replace him.

I don't agree that we have two backups in Montembault and Primeau either. Montembault is borderline backup, and Primeau is the same. Allen is a TRUE backup goalie and among the best in the league. So if we trade him, that leaves us with two 3rd string goalies basically.

We don’t have a staring goalie. Allan is not a starting goalie. Habs extended Monty for 2 years and Primeau is presumably the next in line to have a shot at being the starter. Allan serves no purpose other than to be a backup on a team with no starting goalie. He’s on an expiring contract and if he’s the only saviour goalie we have, Habs are f***ed with or without him.

 

[HabzSauce]

We don’t have a staring goalie. Allan is not a starting goalie. Habs extended Monty for 2 years and Primeau is presumably the next in line to have a shot at being the starter. Allan serves no purpose other than to be a backup on a team with no starting goalie. He’s on an expiring contract and if he’s the only saviour goalie we have, Habs are f***ed with or without him.

Allen is the closest thing we got to a starter goalie. We don't NEED a starter for 2023 but we do need a half decent goalie (like Allen).

Primeau and Montembault are not the answer for 2023 in my opinion. Not even close - that would be the worst goaltending duo in the league especially behind our D corpse. I'm not high on Primeau at all.

We do not have to keep Allen, but we do need to replace him with SOMEBODY other than the two 3rd string goalies we currently have.

That's the only thing I'm considering before I'm moving Allen. We'd have to acquire somebody via trade most likely - a good quality backup like Allen. If Hugo doesn't think they can bring in another good quality backup like Allen at the very least, then I don't think they trade him (unless they're offered a 1st).

And if they keep him past TDL, I also see them resigning him in the summer time.

 

[austin316]

Don't know when or for who but I know these players will not be on this team past TDL:
Dadonov
Drouin
Allan
Byron

Possibly also gone but not as time sensitive:
Dvorak
Hoffman

Price - LTIR or retirement within next 2 years.

We should still be able to get some pretty good picks and prospects back for 2023 and then I'd say Habs will be ready to really start moving forward and try to become more competitive, once the deadweight is gone, cap is available and kids start taking more prominent roles.

Respectfully disagree. Those players will hardly produce any return, and whatever it will be will be extremely minimal.

 

[Tyson]

No matter what happens with the Habs this season when it comes to goaltending, one thing is clear...leave Primeau in Laval the entire season and play him 55 games +. He needs to build off of a terrific playoff run.