Nico Cauzuki
Registered User
starting high would be asking for a 1st + C prospect asking a GM for 2 firsts for jake allen is insulting
i can see Allen getting a 2nd but hes not worth a 1stHF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80
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i can see Allen getting a 2nd but hes not worth a 1st
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
starting high would be asking for a 1st + C prospect asking a GM for 2 firsts for jake allen is insulting
I already told you it was a bit sarcastic. You're taking it too literal and continuing with it now with a belittle narrative. Comprehend it better eh. I gave you some clarity and good context and then you ignored it with more belittle narrative.
Allen is getting more than a 2nd if we trade him before the season starts. He's better than you realize or are willing to give credit for. Totally ignoring the context I provided into limited cap space and not many good goalies available. Sounds like you are living in 2019 still.
You can laugh at the sarcastic two 1st's post but you made it worse for yourself by saying Allen is just some back-up and Thompson who has played 20 NHL games is better.
A C prospect? Wow, you really added to that 1st rounder eh on the high starting price. Habs have little incentive to trade Allen for a 2nd rounder. Makes no sense and this is clearly a leverage value, not a fair one. How many times do I need to repeat it?
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
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I don't expect many trades until the deadline, if the Habs fans want some roster-based excitement before then, it is likely to come from waiver pickups.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
One move has to be made before the season starts though. If they don't, I see headaches in managing the cap. We do have several options but some are better than others. I do think Hughes is looking to move Hoffman or Armia. Or one of Drouin, Byron, Dadonov. Cost to move might be a problem though or we have to take back a contract at the same cap hit which defeats the purpose of moving them. Or do they end up moving Allen cause the offer is solid and it solves our cap where they are confident in Price cause they have more info? We can only speculate.
* If they didn't like Weber on LTIR before the season starts, they won't want Price on LTIR before the season starts. They likely will have 3 goalies on the roster cause if they put Allen or Monty on waivers, they will get claimed IMO and if we find out Price can't play more than a month, they have goalie issues.
* Another thing to note with Price is if he is open to going on waivers again (Waiving his NMC for the Seattle expansion draft)? Not sure of the exact rules but if he waives it, can they put his contract in the AHL and save a $1M on our NHL cap where Price doesn't play AHL? This being a temporary move while he trains and sees how his knee responds. If he still struggles, he goes on LTIR but that happens after the season starts and gives us ability to accumulate accrued cap space? Kind of like last season where we had ability to retain on contracts at the deadline. Weber was on LTIR before the season started but Price went on LTIR after the season started. Others got injured as well but our accrued cap space we had at the deadline was mostly due to Price on LTIR for the majority of the season
* Lets say Price is active and is on our roster. That's 3 goalies and after Dach is signed, they are over the cap if they run with a 23 man roster. Might be forced to go with a 21 or 22 man roster to start the season (get under the cap). I think Gorton and Hughes want to avoid this tight management all season long.
* Other options is someone goes on IR or someone else is buried in the AHL where you save $1M. Could be any one of Drouin, Dadonov, Byron, Hoffman, Armia. If someone wants to claim them, go right ahead.
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Nico Cauzuki
Registered User
Hes descent nothing special hes proved over and over that he cant keep the starting job for long stretches and we got him for a 3rd round pick what did he prove here to make you think he would be worth a 1st round pick
- Jun 24, 2012
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It’s not the most exciting summer from a roster turnover angle but at least HuGo didn’t go out there and do something stupid. They stayed the course within the parameters that the market permitted, which is more than acceptable given what they have to work with.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Just cause he can't keep the starting job, it don't mean he is just some back-up and someone who has played 20 NHL games is better.
Allen is a fringe starter. You put him on the Leafs in Campbell's situation last year and you get similar results. He's better than you give him credit for and make no mistake, teams are calling about him and for good reason. It's a very good value contract regardless of him being a 1B type goalie. Saying he is just some back-up is nonsense.
What we paid for him means nothing. Different cap hit and circumstances. Covid flat cap has really complicated things for a few years now and it has gotten worse this season. Then add the shortage of good goalies and this is why several GM's have circled Allen with his $2.8M cap hit. It's a value contract for one season. Stop ignoring it.
What does he return in a trade? It's not going to be just a 2nd rounder. It's a leverage stand point the Habs are taking and should take it. What's your angle? Play the role of the other GM and talk about what's fair and ignore the flat cap and shortage of good goalies? Come on man
HuGort
Registered User
You aren't getting a 1st or 2nd when Marc Andre Fleury just got a 2nd round pick at deadline. Stop acting like Teams want him because they don't. He doesn't have much value
Nico Cauzuki
Registered User
You seriously need to stop repeating yourself
and im gonna stop arguing with you you lets just agree to disagree because no way Allen is worth more then a second imo and i dont feel like going back and forth about itAgree thats why i said he might fetch a 2nd now but no way he gets a 1st
A team like Vegas thats looking to go all in are not looking at Allen and saying thats our goalie hes a good back up but hes not a #1 they should be looking at Varlamov but they would need to move some cap
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Captain Mountain
Formerly Captain Wolverine
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You can get a 2nd for him if he's playing well and healthy. The only reason MAF only got a 2nd was because he had a NTC and was willing to retire if he went somewhere he didn't want to play. It was also a conditional 2nd that could have turned into a 1st.
Kudo Shinichi
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- Apr 20, 2012
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An Allen trade is probably the easiest way to acquire cap space to re-sign Dach.
Have to wait for Price's situation to clear up first though
Have to wait for Price's situation to clear up first though
Trading Allen would mean that they need to find a replacement first. Price will likely be on LTIR for good, so the Habs have the space to sign Dach.
Yeah if Minnesota makes western conference finals. Teams don't value G and that's a fact. It's why it's so rare to it doesn't happen anymore to see G selected in 1st round
1909
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The easiest way is to wait until the end of the Camp. Price might be put on LTIR. OR-AND Byron. Enough $$ to sign Dach and Primeau. If both Price and Byron are healthy, trade someone like Byron or Hoffman, or Armia or Drouin.
Captain Mountain
Formerly Captain Wolverine
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Have you not been paying any attention at all for the last few years? Teams absolutely value goaltenders. Teams don't draft goalies in the first round as much because they take a long time to develop and are exceptionally difficult to project in their teens. But every team serious about competing needs either an elite goalie or at least two goalies that can reliably start for long periods of time.
Captain Mountain
Formerly Captain Wolverine
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Montreal also doesn't NEED cap space to sign Dach. They'd just need to ice a 22 or occasionally a 21 man roster. And they'd be far from the only team needing to do that.
sampollock
Registered User
It doesn't mean teams will spend assets for it. Jake Allen is average to below average. Teams would look at other G for starters besides him. Stop acting like the gm must get a 1st for him because it's irrational
Captain Mountain
Formerly Captain Wolverine
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sampollock
Registered User
No GM (in his right mind) would give up a 2023 1st round pick for Jake Allen, especially this early in the season.
In any event, without a clearer picture of Price’s future, dealing Allen before TDL 2023 seems hardly worth it…
Unless the Habs trade Allen AND fetch a similarly paid veteran G to shelter Montembault/Primeau.
For instance, if Price is LITRed and provides 10.5M in cap flexibility (+/- 8.5M after signing Dach), the Habs could : trade Allen with 50% retention for a (presumably late) 2nd round pick to a contender needing a quality backup / 1B ;
all the while acquiring another 2nd round pick as incentive to take on a veteran G around 3M* to shelter Montembault.
* Seeing as Dallas doesn’t have enough cap at the moment to sign both Oettinger and Robertson, the Stars should be eager to cap dump Kuhdobin - and since the latter is worst than Allen, the Habs would doubly benefit from another top-64 pick and a better draft position all together!
In any event, without a clearer picture of Price’s future, dealing Allen before TDL 2023 seems hardly worth it…
Unless the Habs trade Allen AND fetch a similarly paid veteran G to shelter Montembault/Primeau.
For instance, if Price is LITRed and provides 10.5M in cap flexibility (+/- 8.5M after signing Dach), the Habs could : trade Allen with 50% retention for a (presumably late) 2nd round pick to a contender needing a quality backup / 1B ;
all the while acquiring another 2nd round pick as incentive to take on a veteran G around 3M* to shelter Montembault.
* Seeing as Dallas doesn’t have enough cap at the moment to sign both Oettinger and Robertson, the Stars should be eager to cap dump Kuhdobin - and since the latter is worst than Allen, the Habs would doubly benefit from another top-64 pick and a better draft position all together!
There are a few GM's who are arguably not all there. And one of them (Vegas GM) needs a goaltender.
Sterling Archer
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2006
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No one is going to blow away anything to get Allen. He’s a serviceable no. 2 who very good in that role. But as Hughes even said, he’s not a no. 1.
lol make it even worse, Vegas got fleeced for Patches. Think they’re giving a 1st for Allen? Lol.
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