HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[Captain Mountain]

I was just thinking about how badly the NHL salary cap needs to go up, and go up ASAP. For the good of the league they need to loosen up constraints a bit.

They're not constraining anything, they negotiated a deal to prevent the cap from dropping. It should be well below 82.5 mil for the upcoming season. Its not the leagues fault so many teams suck at roster construction.

 

[CHfan1]

Or at the very least the NHL should have allowed for 1 compliance buy-out per team.

I’m pretty sure compliance buyouts would have added to the total player compensation adding more money that the players have to pay back in escrow; which is high to begin with and the reason the cap has stayed flat.

GM’s have known about the flat cap for over two years now.

 

[blarneylad]

I was just thinking about how badly the NHL salary cap needs to go up, and go up ASAP. For the good of the league they need to loosen up constraints a bit.

Get a franchise player tag. Where that player's salary hit doesn't count against the cap

I’m pretty sure compliance buyouts would have added to the total player compensation adding more money that the players have to pay back in escrow; which is high to begin with and the reason the cap has stayed flat.

GM’s have known about the flat cap for over two years now.

But they can't help themselves on UFA day. The worst is Vegas always has to get the "guy".

 

[tazsub3]

Get a franchise player tag. Where that player's salary hit doesn't count against the cap


But they can't help themselves on UFA day. The worst is Vegas always has to get the "guy".

Exactly and why we should not have any pity for them, nor should there be any exceptions.
in fact it should be so strict that those instance singing start to affect some players that stay without a job, this is the only way we would get a fair market correction.
As for vegas, they got all the luck any team can have to start, and all they did was to destroy it piece by piece , i just hope they would become bad for a long long time

 

[General Fanager]

I was just thinking about how badly the NHL salary cap needs to go up, and go up ASAP. For the good of the league they need to loosen up constraints a bit.

I don't see the owners doing that unless the players give up something on their side.....Like adding a year or 2 before UFA age,,,,something like that

 

[HABitual Fan]

I don't see the owners doing that unless the players give up something on their side.....Like adding a year or 2 before UFA age,,,,something like that

Will never happen this is working like it was designed to. If I have extra money this year and buy an expensive house and car without considering how I will pay the mortgage and loan in coming years that is on me and I shouldn't expect anyone to care or bail me out. The only change I see that the union and teams might look at is having LTIR not count against the cap. Injured player gets paid more money is freed up for other players teams don't get penalized for something out of their control. Would just need both financial and forfeit of 1st and 2nd round picks if player unretires

 

[ReHabs]

I don't see the owners doing that unless the players give up something on their side.....Like adding a year or 2 before UFA age,,,,something like that

UFA age should be lowered, not raised. It doesn't make any sense why a grown man has to be play for the team that drafted him when he was 17. ELCs don't make any sense either. If a young player is contributing, he should get what he's worth. All this does is deflate the wages of players and benefit tax evading billionaire owners.

 

[Sterling Archer]

UFA age should be lowered, not raised. It doesn't make any sense why a grown man has to be play for the team that drafted him when he was 17. ELCs don't make any sense either. If a young player is contributing, he should get what he's worth. All this does is deflate the wages of players and benefit tax evading billionaire owners.

The ELC is there to protect vets pay checks and avoid terrible contracts to rookie 18 year olds who never played a game.

It’s not going away.

 

[CHfan1]

The ELC is there to protect vets pay checks and avoid terrible contracts to rookie 18 year olds who never played a game.

It’s not going away.

The NFL finally brought in a rookie wage scale after handing out mega contracts to players like JaMarcus Russell and Sam Bradford. No way those players should have been able to get a bigger payday than proven veterans. I agree it’s not going away nor should it in the NHL.

 

[ReHabs]

The ELC is there to protect vets pay checks and avoid terrible contracts to rookie 18 year olds who never played a game.

It’s not going away.

The NFL finally brought in a rookie wage scale after handing out mega contracts to players like JaMarcus Russell and Sam Bradford. No way those players should have been able to get a bigger payday than proven veterans. I agree it’s not going away nor should it in the NHL.

Teams give bad contracts all the time, that's not an argument.

The player risks injury, risks traumatic brain injury, risks never playing a game again every time he steps on the ice -- the owner does not face the same downside risk.

I'd accept even three years ELC because the player is genuinely new to the professional men's league but this nonsense where a player is only free to ply his trade where he wants at 27 is ridiculous and only hurts players. If you want to use the term "proven veteran" then sure, after three years in the NHL a player is a proven veteran and should be unrestricted.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Teams give bad contracts all the time, that's not an argument.

The player risks injury, risks traumatic brain injury, risks never playing a game again every time he steps on the ice -- the owner does not face the same downside risk.

I'd accept even three years ELC because the player is genuinely new to the professional men's league but this nonsense where a player is only free to ply his trade where he wants at 27 is ridiculous and only hurts players.

They give bad contracts based on past performance, not on NO performance.

Tell the rest to the NHLPA and NHL who both wanted and agreed to this.

 

[Scriptor]

UFA age should be lowered, not raised. It doesn't make any sense why a grown man has to be play for the team that drafted him when he was 17. ELCs don't make any sense either. If a young player is contributing, he should get what he's worth. All this does is deflate the wages of players and benefit tax evading billionaire owners.

Yeah, okay...

The ELC is there to protect vets pay checks and avoid terrible contracts to rookie 18 year olds who never played a game.

It’s not going away.

Nor should it. It would just create unnecessary and unsubstantiated inflation in salaries, all based on speculation.

Before ELCs, bubbles created would only foolishly drive up salaries.

 

[ReHabs]

They give bad contracts based on past performance, not on NO performance.

Tell the rest to the NHLPA and NHL who both wanted and agreed to this.

The NHLPA is a joke. They gave up all their leverage when they accepted the salary cap. Now NHL top-end salaries are less than half of the other leagues’.

Nor should it. It would just create unnecessary and unsubstantiated inflation in salaries, all based on speculation.

Before ELCs, bubbles created would only foolishly drive up salaries.

God forbid players get paid what they’re worth in a free market system. We need a cartel of billionaire tax dodgers to artificially suppress wages of exciting young players — to avoid “a bubble”…

 

[Sterling Archer]

The NHLPA is a joke. They gave up all their leverage when they accepted the salary cap. Now NHL top-end salaries are less than half of the other leagues’.


God forbid players get paid what they’re worth in a free market system. We need a cartel of billionaire tax dodgers to artificially suppress wages of exciting young players — to avoid “a bubble”…

The NHLPA wanted this. Because it’s based on actual NHLers who want to protect their income and don’t want to give up a big chunk to a junior player.

The NHL wants this because it prevents bad ELC to guys like Daigle that could ruin a team for a long time.

I don’t see anything wrong with a 3 year ELC. If they show they’re the realm deal, you can load them up like they did with McDavid and Mathews. Not to mention you can still makes millions of dollars in bonuses if you actually earn them. Slafkovsky can make $13,350,000 on his ELC with his bonuses. Would you rather guarantee him that money??

 

[Scriptor]

The NHLPA is a joke. They gave up all their leverage when they accepted the salary cap. Now NHL top-end salaries are less than half of the other leagues’.


God forbid players get paid what they’re worth in a free market system. We need a cartel of billionaire tax dodgers to artificially suppress wages of exciting young players — to avoid “a bubble”…

Relax, defender of the working class. The system isn't exploiting players with a fair revenue sharing from the total revenue pie for the players implemented firmly since the Cap was instilled.

We are no longer in the past NHL era where, I would have agreed, the players were being exploited.

I'll take your disgust in the players' plight with a large grain of salt.

You can't build a team identity with earlier UFA status as you suggest. It takes years to develop players and teams would just develop players in time for them to move on to the highest bidder? Makes no sense. An exceptional player that plays as an 18-year old is a free agent as early as 24, turning 25 or just turned 25!

Make it younger? Why bother drafting at all, then. Just have bidding wars as soon as they turn 18, all based on speculation (Dominating against kids doesn't guarantee dominating in the NHL against skilled adults).

I'll just ignore you on this subject because you are taking some unnecessary moral high ground position based on Butkus and the conversation will be based on nothing.

 

[ReHabs]

The NHLPA wanted this. Because it’s based on actual NHLers who want to protect their income and don’t want to give up a big chunk to a junior player.

The NHL wants this because it prevents bad ELC to guys like Daigle that could ruin a team for a long time.

I don’t see anything wrong with a 3 year ELC. If they show they’re the realm deal, you can load them up like they did with McDavid and Mathews. Not to mention you can still makes millions of dollars in bonuses if you actually earn them. Slafkovsky can make $13,350,000 on his ELC with his bonuses. Would you rather guarantee him that money??

I conceded on the ELC (though I don’t see why an underperforming player on an ELC can ruin a team but a veteran won’t?) but the RFA stuff is nonsensical.

There is absolutely no justification for this model where a player has no choice where they’re drafted to play, has no ability to negotiate what he is worth (if above the ELC Salary Cap), and has no control over where he can play for seven years of his prime. It’s exploitative. And if he doesn’t want his RFA QO, he has no choice but to sit out half of a season and cannot even play if he wanted to. It doesn’t add up unless you view it as vestiges of an exploitative system that need correction.

I’d rather a team be given a free buyout and players be free to sign where they want. Then you don’t have the character assassinations that happen every time a RFA awkwardly tries to find a way to determine where they play. Look at all the things lobbed at Pierre Luc Dubois for having the audacity to say he wants to explore unrestricted free agency.


As for @Scriptor there is no need to continue the discussion if you’re going to be rude.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I conceded on the ELC (though I don’t see why an underperforming player on an ELC can ruin a team but a veteran won’t?) but the RFA stuff is nonsensical.

There is absolutely no justification for this model where a player has no choice where they’re drafted to play, has no ability to negotiate what he is worth (if above the ELC Salary Cap), and has no control over where he can play for seven years of his prime. It’s exploitative. And if he doesn’t want his RFA QO, he has no choice but to sit out half of a season and cannot even play if he wanted to. It doesn’t add up unless you view it as vestiges of an exploitative system that need correction.

I’d rather a team be given a free buyout and players be free to sign where they want. Then you don’t have the character assassinations that happen every time a RFA awkwardly tries to find a way to determine where they play. Look at all the things lobbed at Pierre Luc Dubois for having the audacity to say he wants to explore unrestricted free agency.


As for @Scriptor there is no need to continue the discussion if you’re going to be rude.

You can exploit me with $13M+ potential earnings anytime.

Also, they aren't in indentured servitude. Yes the team owns their rights but the players aren't forced to sign a contract, They don't have to play for the NHL team that drafts them and have options available to them. They can go to another league, they can request a trade and sit out, they can hold out and hope to get OS'ed, change careers and sell insurance if they like. Bottom line is these young players, RFA included still make millions upon millions of dollars and can/do get moved all the time when they no longer wish to play for their drafted team.

So I genuinely don't understand this workers rights nonsense you're going on about. They have options, aren't forced to play and make literal tens of millions of dollars. I think you might look for another soap box then the "poor, exploited professional athlete" to rant on about.

 

[EquabaleAce]

Here’s a thought:

Mtl: Hoffman, 3rd 23’
To
Min: Kulikov

For the Wild, they get a middle six winger who will help their power play for this year. Hoffman is an upgrade at LW to who is slated to play the 3rd line right now. They should be able to move Hoffman next season when the cap jumps and more of their prospects up front are ready. They also deal from a position of strength, opening a spot on the blue line for either Addison, Pert, or Lambos and having Goligoski flip sides depending on who’s in the lineup.

For us, we get a bit of cushion on the cap to sign Dach, while getting out of the last year of Hoffman, and alleviating the glut of forwards. It also creates the same possibility that the Wild get in Kulikov flipping from side to side when any of our young D need a spell. He can also munch minutes, and be flipped at the deadline to recover the pick that was added.

 

[ReHabs]

You can exploit me with $13M+ potential earnings anytime.

Also, they aren't in indentured servitude. Yes the team owns their rights but the players aren't forced to sign a contract, They don't have to play for the NHL team that drafts them and have options available to them. They can go to another league, they can request a trade and sit out, they can hold out and hope to get OS'ed, change careers and sell insurance if they like. Bottom line is these young players, RFA included still make millions upon millions of dollars and can/do get moved all the time when they no longer wish to play for their drafted team.

So I genuinely don't understand this workers rights nonsense you're going on about. They have options, aren't forced to play and make literal tens of millions of dollars. I think you might look for another soap box then the "poor, exploited professional athlete" to rant on about.

What worker’s rights soap box? I’m referring to a free market system! Players should get what they’re worth, even if they’re 21. There is no difference between a 21 year old 90pt scorer and a 29 year old 90pt scorer other than the 21 year old is artificially paid less.

All the “solutions” you propose involve or require a talented player not playing in the NHL. What if he doesn’t want to play in a 5000 seat college arena? He just doesn’t play in the NHL until his rights expire? That’s ridiculous.

The NHL is the only show in the world. No other league compares. It should be liberated not restricted.

 

[CHfan1]

What worker’s rights soap box? I’m referring to a free market system! Players should get what they’re worth, even if they’re 21. There is no difference between a 21 year old 90pt scorer and a 29 year old 90pt scorer other than the 21 year old is artificially paid less.

All the “solutions” you propose involve or require a talented player not playing in the NHL. What if he doesn’t want to play in a 5000 seat college arena? He just doesn’t play in the NHL until his rights expire? That’s ridiculous.

The NHL is the only show in the world. No other league compares. It should be liberated not restricted.

The NHL system allows top players to get big contracts at 21, which is all guaranteed money. Also the duration a ELC can last decreases as the player gets older. A league like the NFL they can’t even enter until they have completed their junior year of college.

These players all just signed big contracts at 21:

Kotkaniemi - 8 years $38.6 million
Tkachuk - 7 years $57.5 million
Hughes - 8 years $64 million
Hughes - 6 years $47.1 million
Svechnikov - 8 years $62 million
Heiskanen - 8 years $67.6 million.
Hischier- 7 years $50.8 million

Other things:

- The players signed this CBA

- They agreed to the 50-50 revenue split with the owners. If the salary cap goes up it just means the players are paying more back in escrow because of this

- Overall revenue in the NHL is a lot less than other big North American leagues

 

[General Fanager]

What worker’s rights soap box? I’m referring to a free market system! Players should get what they’re worth, even if they’re 21. There is no difference between a 21 year old 90pt scorer and a 29 year old 90pt scorer other than the 21 year old is artificially paid less.

All the “solutions” you propose involve or require a talented player not playing in the NHL. What if he doesn’t want to play in a 5000 seat college arena? He just doesn’t play in the NHL until his rights expire? That’s ridiculous.

The NHL is the only show in the world. No other league compares. It should be liberated not restricted.

It will go back to the way it was before. All the stars wanted to play for The Rangers or some other rich team and the small market teams became farm teams for them....

 

[Sterling Archer]

What worker’s rights soap box? I’m referring to a free market system! Players should get what they’re worth, even if they’re 21. There is no difference between a 21 year old 90pt scorer and a 29 year old 90pt scorer other than the 21 year old is artificially paid less.

All the “solutions” you propose involve or require a talented player not playing in the NHL. What if he doesn’t want to play in a 5000 seat college arena? He just doesn’t play in the NHL until his rights expire? That’s ridiculous.

The NHL is the only show in the world. No other league compares. It should be liberated not restricted.

Did McDavid and Mathews get short changed when they signed their contracts at 21? What am I missing here?

Part of a free market economy is the owners having the right NOT to hire you. So it goes both ways. If players not happy, they don't have to play and if owner not happy, he doesn't have to pay. Do I really have to explain this to you? Playing in the NHL is not a right, it's a privilege. Yu don't like it? Go somewhere or do something else.

 

[Sebastien]

Here’s a thought:

Mtl: Hoffman, 3rd 23’
To
Min: Kulikov

For the Wild, they get a middle six winger who will help their power play for this year. Hoffman is an upgrade at LW to who is slated to play the 3rd line right now. They should be able to move Hoffman next season when the cap jumps and more of their prospects up front are ready. They also deal from a position of strength, opening a spot on the blue line for either Addison, Pert, or Lambos and having Goligoski flip sides depending on who’s in the lineup.

For us, we get a bit of cushion on the cap to sign Dach, while getting out of the last year of Hoffman, and alleviating the glut of forwards. It also creates the same possibility that the Wild get in Kulikov flipping from side to side when any of our young D need a spell. He can also munch minutes, and be flipped at the deadline to recover the pick that was added.

Minnesota declines so easy. They aren't taking on Hoffman contract. Dmitry isn't waiving.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Nobody wants discount Jagr?!

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

UFA age should be lowered, not raised. It doesn't make any sense why a grown man has to be play for the team that drafted him when he was 17. ELCs don't make any sense either. If a young player is contributing, he should get what he's worth. All this does is deflate the wages of players and benefit tax evading billionaire owners.

I don't know, when these players reach free agency, they make it rain. How do you explain KK's 8 year deal then?