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HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

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le_sean said:
Yeah, that’s definitely the same thing as him being hurt and not retired.
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The first year he doesn't suit up, he should count, because it's due to an injury and man games lost because of injury.

This year doesn't count because we know he is supposed to be gone for good. hell, he was traded as a LTIR, not as a probable lineup addition.

MarioLeMoose said:
Weber was great in Nashville, but as a Hab he’s the most overrated player we’ve had in some time. I’m glad he’s gone.
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Weber was not over-rated in. Montreal. Nobody claimed he was Norris material. He was still a shutdown, first pairing D up until the end of that Cinderella playoff run.
 
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How the hell did the trade proposal thread turn into another Subban/Weber pissing match lmao. Eh, I'll bite anyway.

Habs Subban was a beast and one of the best D in the league for a few years. Habs Weber was so-so overall but had a great final playoff run with us, he was nowhere near Habs Subban though. Like not even close.

Preds Weber was also a beast but that's not the player we got.
 
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BaseballCoach said:
The trade happened after the 2015-16 season. While you give credit to Subban for the improvement in Nashville's results from 7 game loss in round two to finals appearance in 2016-17, but actually a 2 point drip in the regular season, you should logically also credit Weber for the Habs improving from third-worst team to a team with home ice advantage in the first round, 21 more points in the regular season.

In fact, the Norris voters gave Weber more votes that year than Subban. Out of 167 voters, 45 voted for Weber in the top 5, and not a single voter gave Subban a vote.

The second year following the trade, Subban had his best season in a while, and then the following year, he was not good, and he was traded for cap dumps. Then, his three years in NJ were abysmal.

The trade was fine, but the follow-up to create a contender was a massive fail by Bergy.

I say the trade was fine,m given Subban's $9M cap hit for 6 years when he was already slowing down.

Had Bergy given Subban the 8 years times $6M we were told he wanted in 2013, he would have fetched more in any trade. Four years tsa $6M versus 6 years at $9M!! But Bergy played hardball with a 2 year bridge and paid the price later.
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I don't want to re-litigate the trade but you use two different standards when comparing the two players and it's obvious you're biased against Subban.

If you bring up Norris Votes, then bring up *all* Norris votes. If you want to quickly brush over Subban's tenure with the Preds you should mention how Weber was broken down and constantly injured with the Habs.

I wrote about the trade on my blog. We can hash it out there or in DMs.

Simply put, if you use the exact same rules to analyse both options I would happily be persuaded to your conclusion, but if you say things like "Weber got X votes for the Norris in this year!!" and intentionally fail to mention that Subban got Y votes in just the other year, it reeks of bias.
 
Scorey Perry said:
So-so I call him as a broadcaster Subban had skill to be one of all time great Habs. But he thought he was bigger than the team. Such a waste of skill.
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That criticism lands more on Bergevin than any Habs player. Bergevin thought it was the Bergevin show and his ego was as inflated as I’ve ever seen in a GM or coach in any sport ever.

Subban hardly compares.
 
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Scorey Perry said:
Subban sucks
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He don't suck if he was signed for a bottom pairing depth role at this stage. But he does suck if his cap hit is $9M and performed like he did over the last few seasons in a 20 min role.

However, I'm not sure he's the type we want with our kids. He's not going to go out of his way to help teach them anything and I think he belongs on a team like Tampa or the Avs. A contender where he plays bottom pairing and moves up in case of injury. Tryout contract or $1M. I think the Stars might make a play there.

We already signed our depth guy on RD. Wideman and he fits our rebuilding core cause he's not a complainer and a true teammate type
 
ExpatHabs said:
I don't want to re-litigate the trade but you use two different standards when comparing the two players and it's obvious you're biased against Subban.

If you bring up Norris Votes, then bring up *all* Norris votes. If you want to quickly brush over Subban's tenure with the Preds you should mention how Weber was broken down and constantly injured with the Habs.

I wrote about the trade on my blog. We can hash it out there or in DMs.

Simply put, if you use the exact same rules to analyse both options I would happily be persuaded to your conclusion, but if you say things like "Weber got X votes for the Norris in this year!!" and intentionally fail to mention that Subban got Y votes in just the other year, it reeks of bias.
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I have said it before. In 2017-18, Subban was better by far. Agreed. 3rd in Norris voting. We know these things.

But overall, Subban had 6 years at $9M left on his contract, and the final 4 years were between not good and abysmal.

Yes, Weber was injured for parts of his five seasons here. Forget the 6th, he was on LTIR all year. Bu he was still logging minutes whereas Subban was a joke at $9M.

I'm not biased against Subban, but it's clear Poile had to dump him after only 3 seasons, and got nothing back, negative value. The New Jersey tenure was embarrassing.

The Habs are not where they are today because of the Subban-Weber trade. They are where they are because Bergevin was a massive, massive fail at managing a team, from the coaches he hired on down.
 
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Habsolutely agree. Let’s get back to fantasizing.

Let’s say we have opportunity to land this top 9. up (or even with Fantili/Michkov/Dvorsky if no Bedard), it’s clear that UP the standings is the way to go from there. But unless exceptional development from kids… we still have a problem on defense, specially RD… how do we solve it?
- Leverage the high quantity of prospects we have through trade? (lot of B grade longshots but only few potential game breakers).
- We cross fingers that two of Barron/Mailloux/Norlinder/Harris/Hutson overkill development due to godmode coaching and support from development team?
- aim at big names from FA? (Dumba/Weegar In 2023? Pesce in 2024?)
- trust HuGo to find cheap, underated players through free agency, Flo-Panthers-style?
 
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Florida is desperate to clear cap, if Price is unable to continue his career, would you do Bob retained at 50% for Price on LTIR? They gain 5M in cap room for the next 4 years, Montreal gets a 5M goalie saving 5.5M for 4 years without the LTIR gymnastics each offseason. Opens the possibility to retain on Bob and trade him as a 2.5M goalie as well to a contender that needs a starter. Florida does not have the draft capital to make TDL deals anyways, so they don't need to worry about the LTIR implications in that regard.
 
HABitual Fan said:
Florida is desperate to clear cap, if Price is unable to continue his career, would you do Bob retained at 50% for Price on LTIR? They gain 5M in cap room for the next 4 years, Montreal gets a 5M goalie saving 5.5M for 4 years without the LTIR gymnastics each offseason. Opens the possibility to retain on Bob and trade him as a 2.5M goalie as well to a contender that needs a starter. Florida does not have the draft capital to make TDL deals anyways, so they don't need to worry about the LTIR implications in that regard.
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I rather not. Just put Price on LTIR and be done with it (if Price has setbacks again and is a LTIR contract for sure like Weber).

It's not a bad idea if were closer to moving to contention but what does Bob do for us in our youth rise for the next 4 years? Maybe we can flip him for value later? That part might make sense.
 
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Sherwoo9 said:
Habsolutely agree. Let’s get back to fantasizing.

Let’s say we have opportunity to land this top 9. up (or even with Fantili/Michkov/Dvorsky if no Bedard), it’s clear that UP the standings is the way to go from there. But unless exceptional development from kids… we still have a problem on defense, specially RD… how do we solve it?
- Leverage the high quantity of prospects we have through trade? (lot of B grade longshots but only few potential game breakers).
- We cross fingers that two of Barron/Mailloux/Norlinder/Harris/Hutson overkill development due to godmode coaching and support from development team?
- aim at big names from FA? (Dumba/Weegar In 2023? Pesce in 2024?)
- trust HuGo to find cheap, underated players through free agency, Flo-Panthers-style?
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Yea I really dont know what is their plan with this cause the pipelines are really shallow on D. I was a bit surprised they went with 3 forwards with 1 26 and 33, clearly HuGo are dead set on going BPA at the draft.

That being said can we go back to trading futures for PLD ?
 
Habs Halifax said:
I rather not. Just put Price on LTIR and be done with it (if Price has setbacks again and is a LTIR contract for sure like Weber).

It's not a bad idea if were closer to moving to contention but what does Bob do for us in our youth rise for the next 4 years? Maybe we can flip him for value later? That part might make sense.
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Without a clear successor to Price, he would provide stability in goal while Primeau or someone else is getting NHL reps to be groomed as the starter. As well, as the team moves closer to contention it is important for team morale to not keep losing which they will with replacement level goaltending as they have now.
 
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Kent Nilsson said:
Yea I really dont know what is their plan with this cause the pipelines are really shallow on D. I was a bit surprised they went with 3 forwards with 1 26 and 33, clearly HuGo are dead set on going BPA at the draft.

That being said can we go back to trading futures for PLD ?
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I think we got to wait on Dubois now. I prefer not to trade for him now that he has the $6M one year deal and you can't do any extension till Jan+ now.

I kind of like this... A lot more information will be learned from now till then in many areas.

I'm a big Dubois fan but these things are a must list:
1) Futures are something we can afford
2) Salary in matches the salary out.
3) Dubois comes with extension and it's a fair long term deal. Not a bloated one
 
waitin425 said:
The Subban vs. Weber debate is so old it belongs in the History of Hockey thread on the main board :laugh:

The History of Hockey

forums.hfboards.com forums.hfboards.com

Can we please get back to our fantasies about Bedard, PLD and Huburdeau?

2023-24
Hubs - Suzuki - Caufield
Slaf - PLD - Bedard
Farrell - Dach - Anderson
Pitlick - Evans - Ylonen
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Fantastic but Bedard is never playing wing when he gets to the NHL.
 
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Getting some salary relief is going to be tough guys..............it will cost him a prospect or picks along the way.
No one wants to add money to their cap space right now.............
The deals don't seem to be there................let's see if Hughes can surprise us....
 
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BLONG7 said:
Getting some salary relief is going to be tough guys..............it will cost him a prospect or picks along the way.
No one wants to add money to their cap space right now.............
The deals don't seem to be there................let's see if Hughes can surprise us...
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Do we need salary relief at this point though?

Byron on LTIR covers Dach's signing
Price is an unknown, but might be on LTIR
Next year, without any trades we have +/-11M (not including cap inflation) to spend on Caufield, Harris, Pezetta and a backup goalie

Wait until some players show value and move some of: Dadanov, Drouin, Hoffman, Armia, Dvorak at TDL when teams have some cap flexibility.
 
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smirob said:
Do we need salary relief at this point though?

Byron on LTIR covers Dach's signing
Price is an unknown, but might be on LTIR
Next year, without any trades we have +/-11M (not including cap inflation) to spend on Caufield, Harris, Pezetta and a backup goalie

Wait until some players show value and move some of: Dadanov, Drouin, Hoffman, Armia, Dvorak at TDL when teams have some cap flexibility.
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Some good points, but I do believe there is at least one more move from HuGo to create some space.
Then, as the season progresses we should be able to dump some salary for picks, absolutely agree.
 
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BLONG7 said:
Some good points, but I do believe there is at least one more move from HuGo to create some space.
Then, as the season progresses we should be able to dump some salary for picks, absolutely agree.
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Agree, I think Dvorak will be gone (my money is on CGY)
 
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