HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[Habs Halifax]

We are close....and if we believe the rumblings, people now, want to come to Montreal....
Our turnaround will be fairly swift.......goaltending will be an issue though.
Time to build a team out front, and not lay it ALL on the goalie anyhow.

Yup, and I am on record in the past at saying I rather find the goalie as the last piece vs the 1st piece. Leafs and Oilers have having issues with finding their long term goalie but both their prospect pools were weak when they started to rise up. Habs have a unique situation with how deep the pool is but so we have a Matthews or McDavid? No, we might never get it and it might take a decade of chasing the lottery pick and winning at the right time.

I think we can win with a deeper roster vs a top heavy roster and be a contender for years. Still lots of work to do yeah but it's on the right track

 

[sandviper]

I’ve seen a writer refer to Bergevin’s bad contracts near the end of his tenure as acts of sabotage. Just the lethal combo of several non elite assets getting overpaid and being granted excess term during a flat cap period.

To me, that Hoffman signing was cap sabotage. Like why? (and yes, I'm aware we couldn't score on the PP)

Of course, I don't think Bergy intended to F us over on the way out as his own incompetence did that for him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not sure how you can say it's anywhere close. The Habs side can maybe develop into similar quality if all goes well but fact is the Sens players are already reached the upside and young enough to suggest they'll get even better.

The fact a 28 year old Anderson or Pitlick had to be included shows how far they are in 'youth roster' players.

It's closer than you realize but it requires several of our younger guys to turn pro. The Sens are just a year or two ahead of us from their start point.

You can nit pick Anderson and Pitlick all you want. You're just not going to find exact ages to compare to and your missing the point cause you think a 28 year old Anderson is meh. I'm pretty sure the Sens would welcome that piece on their team.

"Anywhere close". So because it's not close, it's exaggerated to be massive?

 

[Habs Halifax]

To me, that Hoffman signing was cap sabotage. Like why? (and yes, I'm aware we couldn't score on the PP)

Of course, I don't think Bergy intended to F us over on the way out as his own incompetence did that for him.

Panic move by Bergevin in his contract year. Price going to substance abuse program, Weber retiring, and Danault walking.

He went on a shopping spree and this is where his long term vision flaws kick in. Once you loose pieces like Weber and Danault, and Price is facing issues that may affect his career, you need to take a step back and consider other options and direction.

Hoffman should have only been signed if Drouin was traded.

I'm still thinking the Habs don't need a typical long term rebuild......

Since 2018 we had the 1st overall, 3rd overall, 15th, 16th and 31st.
We had 49 picks, that's 14 more picks than what a team normally have, including 6 of them in the 1st 2 round.
We already have 11 picks (+4) next year including 2 x 1st round pick in our backpocket and we will draft high next year again.

If the plan of a rebuild is to draft high, gets tons pick and prospect......that part of the job is mostly done (assuming next year we finish 1-10). It surely don't need another 5 years.

We don't and Hughes has spoken about this several times. We can still gradually move up but still continue to stop pile picks and draft/develop well. We also have other pieces we can move for more futures.

It doesn't have to be all top 10 picks for a rebuild.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I'm still thinking the Habs don't need a typical long term rebuild......

Since 2018 we had the 1st overall, 3rd overall, 15th, 16th and 31st.
We had 49 picks, that's 14 more picks than what a team normally have, including 6 of them in the 1st 2 round.
We already have 11 picks (+4) next year including 2 x 1st round pick in our backpocket and we will draft high next year again.

If the plan of a rebuild is to draft high, gets tons pick and prospect......that part of the job is mostly done (assuming next year we finish 1-10). It surely don't need another 5 years.

Well, the key part of the rebuild isn't getting a lot of picks, its getting a lot of good picks. And that wasn't really a thing the Habs did until Gorton and Hughes took over.

You also need to draft and develop well, which wasn't a hallmark of Bergevin's tenure. For instance, Montreal had the 3rd OA pick in 2018 and 10 more picks in the draft (including 3 2nds and 2 3rds). And yet we don't know how much Montreal will get from that draft. Due to the offer sheet and trades, its basically Dvorak, Dach and a few prospects that may be able to be NHLers from that draft. Which is fine, but not as good as say Carolina, Edmonton or the Islanders.

The rebuild should be for as long as is needed to build a core that compete for a cup. Hopefully that happens sooner rather than later.

 

[HuGort]

Subban was much better for the Habs than Weber was. Subban is the best skater the Habs have had in decades.

He’s pretty much cooked now but Weber is retired.

Not sure about that. Habs win that trade in landslide. Last 4 years Subban been negative player with 9 million caphit Weber was beast in playoffs. Bubble also. His caphit never costs us a cent this year as he was in LTIR. Then he was traded for 20 goal scorer who likely be moved at deadline for first pick.

 

[HuGo Sham]

To me, that Hoffman signing was cap sabotage. Like why? (and yes, I'm aware we couldn't score on the PP)

Of course, I don't think Bergy intended to F us over on the way out as his own incompetence did that for him.

the hoffman signing was f***ing idiotic. he was coming off a PTO-1 year contract and Bergevin gave him 3 years @ 4.5? INSANE

 

[ReHabs]

Not sure about that. Habs win that trade in landslide. Last 4 years Subban been negative player with 9 million caphit Weber was beast in playoffs. Bubble also. His caphit never costs us a cent this year as he was in LTIR. Then he was traded for 20 goal scorer who likely be moved at deadline for first pick.

In the Weber era we won zero playoff rounds until last year. I think you're using two different standards to rate that trade and their careers. Or maybe you've forgotten Subban's heroics for the Habs?

 

[Wats]

It's closer than you realize but it requires several of our younger guys to turn pro. The Sens are just a year or two ahead of us from their start point.

You can nit pick Anderson and Pitlick all you want. You're just not going to find exact ages to compare to and your missing the point cause you think a 28 year old Anderson is meh. I'm pretty sure the Sens would welcome that piece on their team.

"Anywhere close". So because it's not close, it's exaggerated to be massive?

What am I not realizing?

It's massive because of comparisons like:

1. Dach (21) 26 point C vs Stuzle (20) coming off 58 point as mostly C in second half. Why are these 2 close? Please make me realize.

2. Chabot (25) vs Barron (21): literally a proven 25 min/game D who put up 55 points at 21 years old in NHL vs a prospect. Only way this is close if you took a time machine to future and guaranteed Barron becomes a top pairing guy.

3. Batherson (24) vs Anderson/Dvorak/whoever: Guy had 44 points in 46 games and it's big/physical on steal contract. The 2019 Anderson we are dreaming about from CBJ had 47 points in 82 games. IMO, this comparison is horrible and not close. I don't think anyone would even consider Anderson in this for a second.

I'll give you Caufield/Suzuki vs Norris/Debrincat. Maybe they haven't produced as much but at least they've shown something in the NHL to suggest it can be close. Even Slaf vs Tkachuk... its more I wish this will be close rather than it being 'close'. Guhle vs Sanderson I hope is close, means Guhle carries over his offense to pro hockey.

 

[ReHabs]

You mean in the season where we lost over 700 man games, also known as an NHL record?

Even with Ducharme, with a semi-healthy team, we are nowhere near talking about Wright or Slafkovsky.

How many of those games are Weber's games, Brook's, Teasdale's, etc?

 

[Habs Halifax]

What am I not realizing?

It's massive because of comparisons like:

1. Dach (21) 26 point C vs Stuzle (20) coming off 58 point as mostly C in second half. Why are these 2 close?

2. Chabot (25) vs Barron (21): literally a proven 25 min/game D who put up 55 points at 21 years old in NHL vs a prospect. Only way this is close if you took a time machine to future and guaranteed Barron becomes a top pairing guy.

3. Batherson (24) vs Anderson/Dvorak/whoever: Guy had 44 points in 46 games and it's big/physical on steal contract. The 2019 Anderson we are dreaming about from CBJ had 47 points in 82 games. IMO, this comparison is horrible and not close. I don't think anyone would even consider Anderson in this for a second.

I'll give you Caufield/Suzuki vs Norris/Debrincat. Maybe they haven't produced as much but at least they've shown something in the NHL to suggest it can be close. Even Slaf vs Tkachuk... its more I wish this will be close rather than it being 'close'. Guhle vs Sanderson I hope is close, means Guhle carries over his offense to pro hockey.

It's not massive. It's closer than you realize. You're getting caught in the 1/1 comparisons and not looking at the big picture in terms of the Sens being a year or two ahead of us at the start point.

 

[le_sean]

Do something…

 

[Habby4Life]

Yall act MSL is the god of coaching. He turned up Caufield last season and that's about it.

He still sure didn't manage to make Anderson or Gallagher relevant. Let alone the PP

I agree a 100%. He came in when the season was over, the games meant nothing, and allowed the guys to play. Anyone would have been a breath of fresh air after DD.

The MSL hype on here is so over the top. Let’s see how he does when the games matter.

If we win Bedard and trade for Dubois next summer:

Slaf - Suzuki - Caufield
Dubois - Bedard - Anderson
Farrell - Dach - Gallagher
Pitlick - Evans - Armia
RHP, Hoffman, Ylonen

The habs offense will be elite

Haha, this isn’t elite…

 

[Wats]

It's not massive. It's closer than you realize. You're getting caught in the 1/1 comparisons and not looking at the big picture in terms of the Sens being a year or two ahead of us at the start point.

You did the 1v1. Big picture is, until prospects actually prove to be good in NHL, they are behind the Sens in young talent. By a lot. In the year or two Sens also had few busts to reach the successful players. Habs will run into same issues.

Again, what am I not realizing? I'm just not assuming every good prospect in the system reaches perceived upside. It never happens, if you look back at even the most successful prospect pools, there will always be top guys who bust. That's just the reality. There needs to be a lot of good prospects to have a few make it. Maybe HuGo development system is much better than MBs, I just can't assume it to be omnipotent.

 

[SlafySZN]

Not sure how you can say it's anywhere close. The Habs side can maybe develop into similar quality if all goes well but fact is the Sens players are already reached the upside and young enough to suggest they'll get even better.

The fact a 28 year old Anderson or Pitlick had to be included shows how far they are in 'youth roster' players.

They forgot to add Caufield lol

 

[Habs Halifax]

You did the 1v1. Big picture is, until prospects actually prove to be good in NHL, they are behind the Sens in young talent. By a lot. In the year or two Sens also had quite a few busts to reach the successful players.

Again, what am I not realizing? I'm just not assuming every good prospect in the system reaches perceived upside. It never happens, if you look back at even the most successful prospect pools, there will always be top guys who bust. That's just the reality. There needs to be a lot of good prospects to have a few make it. Maybe HuGo development system is much better than MBs, I just can't assume it to be omnipotent.

We don't agree. Leave it at that.

They forgot to add Caufield lol

Yup, I had him there but was moving guys around and omitted it by mistake. Was suppose to be Debrincat vs Caufield. Both are missing

 

[Runner77]

Do something…

Did @sampollock borrow your HF account?

I’ve seen him write something similar.

 

[Runner77]

He can waive it all the wants but unfortunately no GM will come calling for him

Well yes, it was meant for levity. When Pacioretty went for future considerations, how could Gallagher’s contract be moved without swallowing a massive bitter pill? Just got to grin and bear it and look for other ways to create cap room.

 

[1909]

I don't think they were acts of sabotage, I think its a function of him really not believing windows are a thing. He just makes moves to get players he likes and patch holes.

They did sabotage any chance Montreal had to be competitive for the next few seasons however.

I have more confidence in the current management group since Gorton's calling card has always been acquiring elite talent.

Injuries to Weber, Price and Edmundson among many others + COVID cases + departures of Danault and Perry did not help at all. The signing if Hoffman + the te signing of Armia were awful. And the lack of vision about KK and lack of development did not help either.

 

[MarkyMarkov]

I'd rather have him than most of our wingers tbph.

This description makes him sound like Lehkonen.

 

[1909]

Like what? Make a dumb trade? No moves are really needed til TDL
Next summer Hughes will make moves to improve the on ice team

Right now it is almost next to impossible to make trades. If Hughes can get rid of one big (bad) contract and sign Dach to a reasonable deal, that will be quite something.

This description makes him sound like Lehkonen.

Lehki scores in key situations not Pool party.

 

[Sterling Archer]

This description makes him sound like Lehkonen.

Pretty much but bigger, faster with more offensive potential.

 

[MarkyMarkov]

Lehki scores in key situations not Pool party.

He wasn't doing that when he was Puljujarvi's age though.

I like the idea of taking a chance on him and offloading a salary on Edmonton like Armia but not sure they do it. Armia could be a good piece for them honestly, but the three years is a problem.

 

[David Suzuki]

Subban had a NMC that would have kicked in in July when he was traded in late June but with the past CBA, the Preds had option to void the NMC part so Subban lost it. If Subban stayed, he wasn't going anywhere unless he wanted too.

Sounds to me like Bergevin left it to the last minute and got an underwhelming return.

 

[le_sean]

Like what? Make a dumb trade? No moves are really needed til TDL
Next summer Hughes will make moves to improve the on ice team

They need to make a trade to move out salary. They can’t sign Dach.