HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[JoelWarlord]

Montreal very specifically was trying to build a team who could win with Weber and Price. Bergevin said that many, many times. If they were actually rebuilding, they would have been moved in 2018. Montreal's not starting from square one, but they have a lot of bad contracts and a lot of holes. I'm fine with acquiring Huberdeau if there's a way to clear Price's contract completely off the books and moving most of their inefficient contracts. That's pretty unlikely though.

Of course, I fully agree they were trying to win with Weber and Price and that was the primary goal, but I just don't think that really matters in terms of where the decision making process goes in 2022, especially given the methodology was a soft rebuild/retool/reset or however you want to define it. We can imagine what we might have for additional futures if we traded Price/Weber/Petry/Danault) earlier, but Bergevin didn't, so here we are.

All I'm really getting at is that we're in a situation where in practical terms the legacy left was some nice young pieces from the "retool" phase, some medium term bad deals, and a big lump of solid midrange prospects and extra picks laying around from all the bargain bin deals and selling at the 2018 and 2020 deadlines (and then selling aggressively this year of course). The team only officially committed to a "full" rebuild with the new front office, and it's true we made the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, but today and in the future it is reasonable to act as if we've been in a soft rebuild since 2018 because we functionally have been in terms of the assets acquired during that period save for the summer 2021 veteran UFA shopping. The bad deals will take time to clear out, but it will improve by quite a lot as soon as next summer.

This is also a moot point, there's very little chance Huberdeau signs in Montreal even if they were interested in him. Habs fandom just seems to be where Leafs fandom was a decade ago.

I don't think we necessarily know that. I don't think it's moot to discuss the idea on a discussion board in any case because the specific name isn't exactly critical, it could be another player besides Huberdeau that fits the same archetype.

 

[Weltschmerz]

I'm concerned at how many posters are thinking about rebuilding in a simplistic way.

Say we continue to 'Tank' and 'Rebuild' and miss on all our draft picks? What if they don't develop well? What if we end up like Buffalo and we are awful for 10+ years?

What if we can't sign UFA's like Dubois & Huberdeau? What then?

The best course of action is balancing rebuilding and acting on things you can control.

What can you control? Trying to secure the assets you need to build a winner. Yes we need to draft as high as we can again, but it is comedy to think that we will be able to get Huberdeau or Dubois for 'Free' when they hit UFA.

Trade the assets you need to, to lock down your pieces WHILE you are rebuilding.

Tanking does not equal success.

Part of Buffalo beeing awful so long is that they (Murray) tried to force things to early, spending lots of assets on Kane, Bogo even ROR wasn't really a sucess story.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Look at @CHfan1 post there, he already proved you are wrong and I am right so there you go. Now the big question is how you respond to this? Accept it with humility and admit you were wrong or weasel your way out of it somehow while continuing the snarkyness? Maybe rethink the "method" of your madness? I'll wait.

Really it should've been obvious, and that's why I said I'm 99% sure, because there's never been a case where player has signed 2 contracts in the same day. I also knew about the January 1st date (there was talk about Goligoski agreeing on longer term to Minnesota but because of their cap issues they split it into 2 contracts but the second one couldn't be signed until January 1st), but was not sure if QO possibly takes it even further.

I say Suzuki has more untapped potential. He has 2 seasons less experience in the league and hasn't plateaud yet. If Suzuki scores 60p in the next 2 seasons, I'm inclined to say he's likely to be a 60 point player going forward too, just like Dubois is now.

And again, I'm not exactly thrilled to be giving 8M/yr contracts to 60 point players, I don't think that's a winning strategy.

I'm the one who brought up the possible qualifying offer as a possible reason the extension might not be at play. Not you. So spare me with your 99% confidence cause you provided no context into it. I'm the one who opened the door for you and you're ignoring it.

I still don't know if it's at play or not. The CBA is deep with little clauses you may or may not find. If accurate, looks like it's January that you can do the sign/trade.

If true, I'm not making the Dubois trade without an extension so it has to wait. I'm perfectly fine with it and it doesn't affect Dubois value on the ice. It only delays my strategy of getting the extension in place before you agree to the trade.

Suzuki and Dubois are close. Not the same type of centers and I would give the edge to Suzuki but that edge to you is a wider gap than me.

 

[le_sean]

I wonder if there are any discussions between Montreal and Calgary regarding Josh Anderson. We know Calgary pursued him heavily when he was in Columbus. With Tkachuk traded, they may want to replace some of his physicality.

I’d do it for Weegar (with an extension).

 

[habamillions]

Get another high end pick this year. Then this offseason go for guys like huberdeau and dubois if they really want to be here. But the way the defense and goaltending is this team will be like the leafs and everyone is laughing at that. Really hope guhle,harris,xhekaj types really become quality nhl'ers.

 

[CaptainKirk]

This board is going to collapse when PLD get traded to another team and extends.

Everyone saying 'We will get him next summer, or we will get him as a UFA' will be shocked that we weren't able to get him for 'free'.

Smh.

We can always sign a different UFA next year.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

This board is going to collapse when PLD get traded to another team and extends.

Everyone saying 'We will get him next summer, or we will get him as a UFA' will be shocked that we weren't able to get him for 'free'.

Smh.

I wouldn't be shocked because I don't trust him. Any trade would have to be a sign and trade with only assets Habs can do without, like Dvorak, or forget him.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Saying he’s going UFA in 2 years
I bet you dollars to donuts he thought he’d be dealt already
Knows the hype for French Canadians in Montreal
So any team trading for him would have to extend him to probably more than market value
That’s an agents job Get the most $$$ for clients
Cheveldayoff didn’t bite

I don’t think you thought this through. By limiting who he wants to play for, he’s made himself LESS desirable to other teams coming with offers. The specificity of his request is actually detrimental. He didn’t say he just wants out. He said he wants to plan for the Habs. Now the Habs know they don’t have to blow their load on an offer like they would for other UFAs or in a trade and other teams, including Jets, would be hesitant to give him a huge offer because they know exactly where he wants to be, and it’s not there.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I’d do it for Weegar (with an extension).

Me too, I can't believe Calgary would though. As much value as Anderson may have in the NHL, its probably not 8th in Norris voting/analytics darling value.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I don’t think you thought this through. By limiting who he wants to play for, he’s made himself LESS desirable to other teams coming with offers. The specificity of his request is actually detrimental. He didn’t say he just wants out. He said he wants to plan for the Habs. Now the Habs know they don’t have to blow their load on an offer like they would for other UFAs or in a trade and other teams, including Jets, would be hesitant to give him a huge offer because they know exactly where he wants to be, and it’s not there.

It could be done to get other teams to overpay for his services figuring they have to make the offer more attractive than going to the Habs. Of course only an idiot GM would trade equivalent assets for him and then overpay him. Mike Grier and/or Chuck Fletcher come on down. The Price Is Not Right.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Part of Buffalo beeing awful so long is that they (Murray) tried to force things to early, spending lots of assets on Kane, Bogo even ROR wasn't really a sucess story.

Also spending money on Okposo, Skinner, Ehrhoff, Hodgson, etc.

Regier was a pretty poor GM near the end and Tim Murray and Jason Botterill were pretty bad throughout.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

At Mia’s worth a late 1st?!?

How quickly can that deal happen? Cattle prodding stick included (might help when he gets into deep funks, like 95% of the time).

Lol. He’s probably worth a 2nd + prospect. His cap hit is only 3.4 mil for the next 3 seasons, let’s say we were willing to retain 500k to get that down to 2.9 mil, that could be very attractive to a contender. He scored 16 goals in 58 games in 2020. A different team could be exactly what he needs.

 

[SlafySZN]

As i said 2 weeks ago and has been saying. Habs was never trading for Dubois.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It could be done to get other teams to overpay for his services figuring they have to make the offer more attractive than going to the Habs. Of course only an idiot GM would trade equivalent assets for him and then overpay him. Mike Grier and/or Chuck Fletcher come on down. The Price Is Not Right.

That makes no sense. PLD and his very smart agent are limiting their pool to one team. If he had just said I want out of Winnipeg and will figure it out again as a UFA, now your competing with 30 teams which no doubt would get you a higher contract.

Have you ever hear a player going UFA and saying he only wants to play for team X? No, because it’s a terrible strategy. Even if you only wanted to play for team X, STFU and let them bid for you as if they’re bidding against everyone else.

 

[BaseballCoach]

This board is going to collapse when PLD get traded to another team and extends.

Everyone saying 'We will get him next summer, or we will get him as a UFA' will be shocked that we weren't able to get him for 'free'.

Smh.

If you don't think he is worth something, just say that. Don't try to tell us that it's "dumb" to not wait in order to get him for free later.

Most people pay for things of value and hope for lesser value things to come for free.

Imagine the discussion trying to sign Huberdeau next summer.

"So Kent, how is the rebuild going?"

"We have the same three pieces we had after the draft last year."

"What happened? I heard you were going after Dubois?"

"Yeah, we thought of him, or Dobson or Provorov but our fanbase wanted us to wait and not use our Florida first and get Bedard first with our own pick."

"Well, the draft was last week and you didn't get Bedard with your pick. Was that a shock?"

"No, we're smart, we knew the chances were only 10% or so."

"So you held onto the Florida pick. Did that help?"

"Oh yes, I forgot him. We think we drafted a good 18 year old guy who could be a solid middle sixer in about 6 years."

"Let me get this straight - I'm 30 years old man, and you want me to sign for like 6 years with you guys and hope to win a Cup, when you consciously took a path with 10% odds of just being in the mix? And you tell me you're smart? Good luck to you, I hope to see the parade after I retire and your replacement puts together a winner."

 

[Runner77]

Lol. He’s probably worth a 2nd + prospect. His cap hit is only 3.4 mil for the next 3 seasons, let’s say we were willing to retain 500k to get that down to 2.9 mil, that could be very attractive to a contender. He scored 16 goals in 58 games in 2020. A different team could be exactly what he needs.

Hopefully, his World Championship mirage entices a GM however I doubt Hughes retains on a long term contract. He just seems to be open to doing it with expiring contracts, likely at the trading deadline since they’re cap starved again this year.

 

[SlafySZN]

That makes no sense. PLD and his very smart agent are limiting their pool to one team. If he had just said I want out of Winnipeg and will figure it out again as a UFA, now your competing with 30 teams which no doubt would get you a higher contract.

Have you ever hear a player going UFA and saying he only wants to play for team X? No, because it’s a terrible strategy. Even if you only wanted to play for team X, STFU and let them bid for you as if they’re bidding against everyone else.

He was asked about the habs and then said the habs would maybe be a team he would like to play for, nothing serious he didn’t say it was the only team he would play for ever.

 

[Adam Michaels]

That makes no sense. PLD and his very smart agent are limiting their pool to one team. If he had just said I want out of Winnipeg and will figure it out again as a UFA, now your competing with 30 teams which no doubt would get you a higher contract.

Have you ever hear a player going UFA and saying he only wants to play for team X? No, because it’s a terrible strategy. Even if you only wanted to play for team X, STFU and let them bid for you as if they’re bidding against everyone else.

Brisson never said he only wants to play in Montreal. He said Montreal is a place he'd like to play in.

 

[Runner77]

Delete (double post)

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

If you don't think he is worth something, just say that. Don't try to tell us that it's "dumb" to not wait in order to get him for free later.

Most people pay for things of value and hope for lesser value things to come for free.

Imagine the discussion trying to sign Huberdeau next summer.

"So Kent, how is the rebuild going?"

"We have the same three pieces we had after the draft last year."

"What happened? I heard you were going after Dubois?"

"Yeah, we thought of him, or Dobson or Provorov but our fanbase wanted us to wait and not use our Florida first and get Bedard first with our own pick."

"Well, the draft was last week and you didn't get Bedard with your pick. Was that a shock?"

"No, we're smart, we knew the chances were only 10% or so."

"So you held onto the Florida pick. Did that help?"

"Oh yes, I forgot him. We think we drafted a good 18 year old guy who could be a solid middle sixer in about 6 years."

"Let me get this straight - I'm 30 years old man, and you want me to sign for like 6 years with you guys and hope to win a Cup, when you consciously took a path with 10% odds of just being in the mix? And you tell me you're smart? Good luck to you, I hope to see the parade after I retire and your replacement puts together a winner."

If he asked about other players Hughes would say we were interested in them but the price was far too high. With what we would have to give up we would be no closer to being a contender.

 

[Runner77]

Brisson never said he only wants to play in Montreal. He said Montreal is a place he'd like to play in.

If I’m not mistaken, neither Dubois nor his agent said publicly that they’d be exclusively looking for a Habs contract. They’ve only expressed openness but that was in answer to a suggestive question.

 

[salbutera]

It’s clear as day after today’s presser, PLD is gonzo from Jets and Chevaldayoff’s trading him… not a question of IF but WHEN

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

That makes no sense. PLD and his very smart agent are limiting their pool to one team. If he had just said I want out of Winnipeg and will figure it out again as a UFA, now your competing with 30 teams which no doubt would get you a higher contract.

Have you ever hear a player going UFA and saying he only wants to play for team X? No, because it’s a terrible strategy. Even if you only wanted to play for team X, STFU and let them bid for you as if they’re bidding against everyone else.

I was looking more at trading for him after Jan 1. But it would make no sense unless they thought they had an idiot GM hooked and he might overpay on the contract to outbid Montreal hoping Dubois wil go for the bucks.

 

[Runner77]

It’s clear as day after today’s presser, PLD is gonzo from Jets and Chevaldayoff’s trading him… not a question of IF but WHEN

That much is clear. Maybe Chevaldayoff will just go for a Tkachuk type deal (not quite the same haul but similar structure) and let some other team figure it out.

I can’t see the Habs expending the quality assets it would take to land Dubois given their limited disposable quality depth but if Dubois is still available next year, who knows what the Habs will be able to afford by then.

 

[Adam Michaels]

If I’m not mistaken, neither Dubois nor his agent said publicly that they’d be exclusively looking for a Habs contract. They’ve only expressed openness but that was in answer to a suggestive question.

Exactly. Brisson didn't go out of his way to say that.