HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[le_sean]

OK, certain don't count........no worries! The math on his games played tell us he is a .66 ppg player. Again, this equates to 54 pts per season. True or not?
Let me guess, if he had gotten 80 pts in his rookie season, you would............want it counted. True, or not?
If I remember correctly what started all this was a poster, said he was a 65 pt player, and he has not been a 65pt player.....can he become one, of course, but just not yet.

I still can't believe rookie years don't count as real stats for players......gotta learn something new everyday eh....

So Sean Couturier is a 35 point player and not a 75 point player according to you? Since his first 6 seasons were that low it must mean the development afterwards was an aberration.

 

[salbutera]

So Sean Couturier is a 35 point player and not a 75 point player according to you? Since his first 6 seasons were that low it must mean the development afterwards was an aberration.

In all fairness, he was asked to be a checking line C and 1st PK since his rookie season

When he was moved to 1C his stats just took off

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[BLONG7]

So Sean Couturier is a 35 point player and not a 75 point player according to you? Since his first 6 seasons were that low it must mean the development afterwards was an aberration.

Love this.................let me help you here............
He has amassed 460 pts in 721 games................638 ppg equates to 52 pt seasons............He has hit 75 pts twice, and it was a few years ago......he is not a 75 pt guy or a 35 pt guy.....and in the last few years, he can't stay healthy....
You can't take the top line and cherry pick, and discount the rest. You just can't.
Let's not forget here in a few years, when he becomes like Gally, and he just can't get 30 pts anymore when his body starts breaking down, grant it this would be in the future, it will just lower his ppg over his career.

You have to look at the entire body of work and then calculate the stats...........not take out certain years.....doesn't fly.
You still didn't answer any of the questions asked of you? If Dubois's rookie year, he hit 80 pts would you not want that counted in your assessment? If you answer yes, then you can't discount his poor rookie season.

It's math...........just math
We can agree to disagree which is no big deal either.

 

[le_sean]

Love this.................let me help you here............
He has amassed 460 pts in 721 games................638 ppg equates to 52 pt seasons............He has hit 75 pts twice, and it was a few years ago......he is not a 75 pt guy or a 35 pt guy.....and in the last few years, he can't stay healthy....
You can't take the top line and cherry pick, and discount the rest. You just can't.
Let's not forget here in a few years, when he becomes like Gally, and he just can't get 30 pts anymore when his body starts breaking down, grant it this would be in the future, it will just lower his ppg over his career.

You have to look at the entire body of work and then calculate the stats...........not take out certain years.....doesn't fly.
You still didn't answer any of the questions asked of you? If Dubois's rookie year, he hit 80 pts would you not want that counted in your assessment? If you answer yes, then you can't discount his poor rookie season.

It's math...........just math
We can agree to disagree which is no big deal either.

20 goals and 48 points is a poor rookie season? Isn’t that similar to what Caufield had?

No I don’t count a rookie season as an indication of expected point totals of a player since I believe player development is real. He has developed into a 60 point player. He’s done it twice in 4 full seasons. Close to that in PPG in a 3rd. That’s enough for me.

 

[BLONG7]

Love this!! LOL.....................RFA's thinking they run the show!!
Somewhere Brian Burke is dying to change the CBA on RFA's!! lol
'

 

[Benstheman]

If Dubois really only wants to play for Habs, there are only two possibilities for Winnipeg. One that sucks real bad and one that sucks a bit less.

One that sucks real bad (and probably shouldn’t happen): he signs and play with Winnipeg until UFA. But nothing good will come out of this for Dubois nor the jets. If this is what’s happening, it’s because Cheveldayoff decides to make PLD’s life miserable and gut his team in the process.

One that sucks less : Trade to Habs for a reasonable package. I say reasonable because Habs have no cap space to sign PLD and that’s the only small leverage Winnipeg has. Either Habs will include two players with a certain value like Dvorak, Armia, Anderson or will pay Winnipeg to take a cap dump like Hoffman, Drouin, Gallagher, Byron, etc.

The other thing I wanna say is no GM in the league wants to make other GM’s look real bad. It’s not good buisness and can come back to bite you in the ass in the future.

Finally, no other team will trade for PLD without asking permission to talk with him and make sure he wants to play there, even as a two years rental. So if he really plans to play for Habs and only Habs, no other team will pay for him.

 

[BLONG7]

20 goals and 48 points is a poor rookie season? Isn’t that similar to what Caufield had?

No I don’t count a rookie season as an indication of expected point totals of a player since I believe player development is real. He has developed into a 60 point player. He’s done it twice in 4 full seasons. Close to that in PPG in a 3rd. That’s enough for me.

The math right now does not support your theory.
Sorry, it just doesn't
Let's give CC 4-5 seasons before we do his math totals!!
Again..............we can agree to disagree..............I am of the opinion, a guy who gets 39 goals, is still not yet a 40 goal guy................you have to get there before you say it.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

All it needed is a 1st overall pick to have people think we can now go for the cup in the next couple of years. People forget that it took Colorado, to name only one team, 10 years to win the cup. Slavkofsky isn’t even Landeskog or McKinnon. Crazy stuff going around these days.

This. People think because we got the heavy goal scorer of 5 goals that we are now a new franchise. At this moment we have like 1 top 4 dman , no #1 goalies , 1 winger with the potential of 50+ points.

People are so crazy to switch gears after a weak draft. It's like Dach will be the savior of this franchise lol.

 

[le_sean]

The math right now does not support your theory.
Sorry, it just doesn't
Let's give CC 4-5 seasons before we do his math totals!!
Again..............we can agree to disagree..............I am of the opinion, a guy who gets 39 goals, is still not yet a 40 goal guy................you have to get there before you say it.

And Dubois has literally hit 60 points twice before the age of 24. I don’t need to do math, it’s literally right there.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Also Leafs fans wasting a first pick to get rid of Mzarek just to trade for a worst goalie in Murray

 

[ginomini]

The math right now does not support your theory.
Sorry, it just doesn't
Let's give CC 4-5 seasons before we do his math totals!!
Again..............we can agree to disagree..............I am of the opinion, a guy who gets 39 goals, is still not yet a 40 goal guy................you have to get there before you say it.

You don't use a players past stat when they were not as good yet to predict what the player will be next year. Thats not "just math" that's a stupidly blind use of math.

 

[Milhouse40]

I just want our picks back. Are any of those interested teams, willing to cough up?

From the above link:

“I can tell you that I know three teams that have talked to Kent [Hughes] more than once about him, and I’m sure there’s more,” the source said. “Look, do I think Kent wants to move him. …probably not, but he needs to free up cap space for other things he’s doing that he believes helps him now and in the future and obviously Dubois is one of those things.”

If the point of trading him is to get cap space.......I see very few teams wanting to go after Dvorak or at the very least pay a premium on him.....

If Colorado miss out on Kadri, they would be one of them for sure.
Ottawa could also be one of those teams......they want a push a could use a center with more experience.
Maybe Calgary but they have enough problems right now with Tkachuk

 

[sampollock]

Quiet on the front

Kent might be taking a break

 

[SlafySZN]

I understand that there's reasons to be skeptical of this whole story being true or not but this doesn't really make sense, Brisson would not need to go public and talk about his client wanting to play in Montreal just to drive a hard bargain against the Jets for more money, all he would have to do is say Dubois will test free agency unless the Jets make it worth his while to stay.

The reason agents normally don't talk about a specific team like this is because it doesn't give you any additional leverage in negotiations with the existing team beyond what you'd get by just saying "we will test free agency" and not rocking the boat too much, while it brings a lot of negative attention to the player and craters your leverage with the team you're leaking to the media since that GM feels way more comfortable to lowball you. It only really makes sense to do this if the player's priority is getting to a certain team ASAP even if it comes at a financial cost.

Brisson never said dubois would only want to play specifically in montreal. He said something like ‘’montreal is one of the place he would like to go’’ and he was speaking to a quebec media so…

 

[Runner77]

If the point of trading him is to get cap space.......I see very few teams wanting to go after Dvorak or at the very least pay a premium on him.....

If Colorado miss out on Kadri, they would be one of them for sure.
Ottawa could also be one of those teams......they want a push a could use a center with more experience.
Maybe Calgary but they have enough problems right now with Tkachuk

I’m hoping that at least one of his potential suitors sees him as more than cap space relief. He’s playing a premium position, is great at faceoffs and was hurt for two months last year. Let’s see what he does in a healthy year.

Quiet on the front

Kent might be taking a break

Kent doing elliptical flight patterns into those superimposed triangles in his ceiling.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Brisson never said dubois would only like to play specifically in montreal. He said something like ‘’montreal is one of the place he would like to go’’ and he was speaking to a quebec media so…

"Montreal is a place, a city he'd like to play in. That's all I can say about that".

You're right that he didn't technically say Montreal is the only city he'd like to play in, but an agent as experienced as Brisson representing a player named Pierre-Luc Dubois is not going to just make that comment to TVA Sports innocently. He 100% knows what he is doing, and wouldn't be saying anything beyond "our plan is to test free agency" if he didn't want to make that connection. If he somehow did it by accident he would have corrected the record some time in the past three days if they didn't want that message out there.

That doesn't mean he'll never change his mind or that he wouldn't extend with any other team under any circumstances, but right now that's what his camp is pushing and there is really no logical reason that they would do it beyond wanting to get to Montreal sooner rather than later.

 

[SlafySZN]

 

[Team_Spirit]

 

[sandviper]

Problem with some who have this ridiculous hard on for PLD… I think, within a vacuum, PLD is indeed worth a lot. In a trade, sure, he should fetch a top-10 pick, top prospect or a comparable aged player and stats…

However, why succumb to Winnipeg’s demands? He and his agent essentially lowered his trade value not just for us but for every other team.

As for PLD getting insulted or mad if we offer a crap package because it shows we don’t “value him”… well if he is insulted, he can go F off then because we should NOT give up much for him.

No matter what, to even consider PLD, at the minimum, $6m need to come off the books.

I would not mind PLD but the desperation of his fans is ridiculous. I’d offer a contract dump, maybe two, a forward prospect and maybe a 4th.

 

[calder candidate]

"Montreal is a place, a city he'd like to play in. That's all I can say about that".

You're right that he didn't technically say Montreal is the only city he'd like to play in, but an agent as experienced as Brisson representing a player named Pierre-Luc Dubois is not going to just make that comment to TVA Sports innocently. He 100% knows what he is doing, and wouldn't be saying anything beyond "our plan is to test free agency" if he didn't want to make that connection. If he somehow did it by accident he would have corrected the record some time in the past three days if they didn't want that message out there.

That doesn't mean he'll never change his mind or that he wouldn't extend with any other team under any circumstances, but right now that's what his camp is pushing and there is really no logical reason that they would do it beyond wanting to get to Montreal sooner rather than later.

He is speaking on TVA sport he not going to say he won’t play in Montreal and they ask specifically about Montreal, he said it want one of the city never said the only one and of course he want to make the connection to Mtl because that is going to generate 1000% more media coverage. The more coverage the more chance he has of breaking the bank or getting out of Winnipeg.

 

[WG]

Also Leafs fans wasting a first pick to get rid of Mzarek just to trade for a worst goalie in Murray

Nobody enjoys a good Leaf debacle more than me, but the Leafs didn't 'waste a 1st round pick' , they traded back about a dozen spots in a queer draft where valuations were all over the place. All things considered, Dubas wiggled off the hook at minimal penalty on that one.

 

[WG]

Problem with some who have this ridiculous hard on for PLD… I think, within a vacuum, PLD is indeed worth a lot. In a trade, sure, he should fetch a top-10 pick, top prospect or a comparable aged player and stats…

However, why succumb to Winnipeg’s demands? He and his agent essentially lowered his trade value not just for us but for every other team.

As for PLD getting insulted or mad if we offer a crap package because it shows we don’t “value him”… well if he is insulted, he can go F off then because we should NOT give up much for him.

No matter what, to even consider PLD, at the minimum, $6m need to come off the books.

I would not mind PLD but the desperation of his fans is ridiculous. I’d offer a contract dump, maybe two, a forward prospect and maybe a 4th.

*applause*

I'm in the camp of just wait two years and sign him for free as a UFA, and keep the various picks and prospects. And if he signs elsewhere in the meantime, fine, go find somebody else. But I wouldn't mind reconsidering in the 2023 off season, we'll see exactly what that Florida pick will be, and Montreal will have cleared a bunch of deadwood contracts so no concerns about how to fit PLD in money wise.

It is not all that likely, but what is Florida misses the PO and that unprotected pick becomes a 10-12 OV, in a much better draft than 2022? I'd rather use that and the Habs' presumed top 10 pick to add legit high end talent to the roster going forward vs trading it. If Florida makes the PO and the pick is 20-something then a Trouba deal (20ish OV + young player/prospect) should suffice.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

*applause*

I'm in the camp of just wait two years and sign him for free as a UFA, and keep the various picks and prospects. And if he signs elsewhere in the meantime, fine, go find somebody else. But I wouldn't mind reconsidering in the 2023 off season, we'll see exactly what that Florida pick will be, and Montreal will have cleared a bunch of deadwood contracts so no concerns about how to fit PLD in money wise.

It is not all that likely, but what is Florida misses the PO and that unprotected pick becomes a 10-12 OV, in a much better draft than 2022? I'd rather use that and the Habs' presumed top 10 pick to add legit high end talent to the roster going forward vs trading it. If Florida makes the PO and the pick is 20-something then a Trouba deal (20ish OV + young player/prospect) should suffice.

The earliest the Habs should consider getting PLD for is in 1 year. By that time, he's a year rental. The only reason I'd be open to trading for him is to dump a few contracts including Dvorak, Anderson, etc. If they aren't interested, just wait two years. There's no reason to sign him now. Hughes has stated Habs aren't gonna be competitive this year. Basically he knows Habs are terribly constructed and will suck so might as well wait and make PLD the bigish FA signing that every team makes when they're done tanking and ready to compete

 

[Runner77]

Problem with some who have this ridiculous hard on for PLD… I think, within a vacuum, PLD is indeed worth a lot. In a trade, sure, he should fetch a top-10 pick, top prospect or a comparable aged player and stats…

However, why succumb to Winnipeg’s demands? He and his agent essentially lowered his trade value not just for us but for every other team.

As for PLD getting insulted or mad if we offer a crap package because it shows we don’t “value him”… well if he is insulted, he can go F off then because we should NOT give up much for him.

No matter what, to even consider PLD, at the minimum, $6m need to come off the books.

I would not mind PLD but the desperation of his fans is ridiculous. I’d offer a contract dump, maybe two, a forward prospect and maybe a 4th.

Hughes is the incoming wave after Brisson has softened the target. Chevy is unfortunately a crusty SOB who is used to players posturing and threatening to escape the Peg.

What is a once in a lifetime top 6 local player actually wanting to play in his home city is just another barking clown show for Chevaldayoff. I’m hoping the stalemate continues well into next summer at which point we might be in a better position to negotiate.