HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[le_sean]

Poor Toffoli, could find himself in another rebuilding situation and on the move again.

Man imagine the Habs somehow got the Flames 2023 pick instead for Toffoli. Though I’m happy with Mesar.

 

[John B]

Anderson spending a lot of time with Suzuki this summer...doubt he gets traded, seems very involved.

If he was going to get dealt, IMO it likely would have happened at the draft. The only other way I could see him traded is as part of a deal for Dubois. He's a good roster player with value and moving out his cap hit to make room for Dubois' cap hit (whatever that will be) would make sense.

 

[donghabs98]

Man imagine the Habs somehow got the Flames 2023 pick instead for Toffoli. Though I’m happy with Mesar.

Imagine 2 top 10 picks in 2023, that would be a nice dream

 

[Richiebottles]

Poor Toffoli, could find himself in another rebuilding situation and on the move again.

I wonder if this impacts the PLD situation at all?

Seeing the return + getting ready for a rebuild might nudge Winnipeg the right way.

 

[waitin425]

Imagine 2 top 10 picks in 2023, that would be a nice dream

I don't like to pray for player injuries....but pray for Barkov, Hubs or Ekblad to miss significant time.

 

[smirob]

I go back and forth on PLD...there's a great chance we get a good centre in the next draft...but if we can buy somewhat low on PLD i'm for it...but that might affect our chance at a good centre in the next draft.....

Really though with our defence next year - I think we get a good pick either way.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You strike when you know you can have it all set in motion. 24 year-old top-6 center is available and is dying to play for you? Do it. Don't avoid it because maybe later something better maybe yeah. You'll stay bad forever that way.

I don't really buy the "dying to play for us and only us" story, but even if by chance it is true, it doesn't mean we should send MORE assets to get this person because, what, he strokes our ego and it feels good?

 

[HomaridII]

Imagine if Matthew joins his brother in Ottawa! Crazy.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I don't really buy the "dying to play for us and only us" story, but even if by chance it is true, it doesn't mean we should send MORE assets to get this person because, what, he strokes our ego and it feels good?

What do you mean by more assets? Who's saying that? I'm saying if a fair/good deal can be done, do it. No one has claimed we should overpay for him. But to think that you only make this trade if you can get him at a deal that obviously pillages the Jets is stupid.

I don't think Dubois would refuse to play for any other team in his career and a Jets reporter has said that his value to other teams is lowered because he won't sign past 2 years with anyone else.

 

[donghabs98]

Columbus I could live with, but I would have also really hated Torts.

Winnipeg, however, I could not deal with. Awful city. Mediocre team. Douchebags in the dressing room. No thanks, get me out of there as quick as possible.

They gotta clean house both on and off the ice. Clearly there is an issue with the organizational culture as many players are requesting for a trade.

 

[Canadienna]

Anderson spending a lot of time with Suzuki this summer...doubt he gets traded, seems very involved.

Lol so cute.

Andersonnnn! So bigggg!

 

[SlafySZN]

You realise that nothing of the above proves that Dubois "has nothing to do with it"?

Okay we understand you want Dubois badly and want to believe they’ll trade for him. Hughes worked on a trade for weeks and even had to let go of a good piece like romanov in order to get the player he wanted. Don’t you think that if he wanted dubois so badly hughes would’ve made a trade for him? Don’t say something happened and the trade fell off because if hughes really wanted dubois from the start he would’ve let go on some pieces like romanov to get what he wanted no problem.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'll stop here because that's something that I'll always address before getting in the nit and grit of a deal. I think the philosophy that a team should acquire a player by window or timeline to be an extremely fallacious one that leaves you at a high risk of keeping your team bad and full of holes.

I'm generally on your side of that argument. What I meant in this case is that if there are two years until we have our full opportunities and flexibility due to the need to shed cap, then we don't necessarily have to acquire the 2C right away. The GM could target a 1st line player or a top 4 D or getting more 1st round picks in the deep 2023 draft. I agree that all methods of constructing a strong roster are on the table and that the rebuild should not be throttled to satisfy an arbitrary timeline or an arbitrary sequence of tactics, but there are limited resources at any one time. Just one examnple: if I believe that Dadonov can fetch a 1st at the deadline, I'm not willing to use him as a throw-in to get a deal done for a 2C where we are already dealing significant asssets.

 

[Takeru]

I'll stop here because that's something that I'll always address before getting in the nit and grit of a deal. I think the philosophy that a team should acquire a player by window or timeline to be an extremely fallacious one that leaves you at a high risk of keeping your team bad and full of holes. Before even getting into the idea of what a 1st round pick can fetch you (which have been extremely overrated at this point, especially outside of lottery picks) a team should never, never, never pass the opportunity to fetch a good player or fill a hole based on an idea of a window.

IMO, a team should never:

- Decide to acquire players by order (i.e., draft first then sign UFAs)
- Decide that a need is not immediate based on losing games/a rebuild (New York refused to do that with Trouba and look at them today - they're coming up)

You acquire players by the window of opportunity, not a deadset timeline of when you think you'll be competing. Because the former is exactly how you end up competing. Thinking you shouldn't acquire Dubois 'because we're not winning this upcoming season' is IMO, misguided in the extreme and you have zero guarantee that your pick will turn out (chances are it actually won't) or that as good/young a player will be available in the future. You strike when you know you can have it all set in motion. 24 year-old top-6 center is available and is dying to play for you? Do it. Don't avoid it because maybe later something better maybe yeah. You'll stay bad forever that way.

It really comes down to the nit and grit of the deal in this case (and in any case for that matter).

For sure availability and desire to play for your team matters.
But asset management and cap structure matter just as much.

You need the opportunity to be right in cost and cap space, only then should you make your move. Availability is but the first barrier towards a trade. Hence why you need to evaluate if the opportunity is indeed right in terms of cost.

Jumping at the first guy that becomes available regardless of cost and cap space needed to resign him screams bad asset management.

 

[DubDub]

Poor Toffoli, could find himself in another rebuilding situation and on the move again.

He probably would like to move on after losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

 

[Saundies]

Poor Toffoli, could find himself in another rebuilding situation and on the move again.

Wow, large.

Tkachuk for PLD - Laine trade 2.0

 

[SnapVirus]

Matthew Tkachuk traded this week. Imagine having him. Best forward we would have had since when? Lafleur? +100pts player and he is 24. Rivalry between two brothers in same division. Man I'd like that.

Anderson + Flo 1 y23 + Mtl 1 y24 + Gallagher + One of our prospect not named Slafkovsky/Guhle
vs
Tkachuk.

They get back a player who can physically do the same, two 1st rounders, and Gallagher who comes from Vancouver but would be closer to home (and to fit capspace).

Tkachuk - Suzuki - Caufield. Take my wife!!!

 

[Takeru]

Poor Toffoli, could find himself in another rebuilding situation and on the move again.

Flames are gearing up for the Bedard race if true :O

 

[DAChampion]

There are advantages to acquiring Dubois during the tanking years:

1) It helps build the team core.
2) It defines a direction for Hughes, he then needs to focus predominantly on the D, the forward corps will be in great shape.
3) It helps insulate Dach.
4) it's one more center for the team's wingers to develop with, for example Slafkovsky could play with Dubois and Anderson.
5) It may increase the deadline value of guys like Drouin, Dadonov, Byron, Hoffman, Armia, etc.

 

[Kosseca]

The ideal that Winnipeg is going to take scraps for Dubois is ridiculous. The price is high and will remain high. Winnipeg can sign him to a two year deal and move him next offseason or at the TDL in 2024. There is no bargain to be had here. If the Habs acquire him, they will be giving up a 1st rounder, a good prospect, and likely a good/solid roster player. Maybe even two roster players to make the cap work considering Dubois is likely to get in the $7M dollar range long term.

Well actually, it is all about supply and demand. PLD needs a contract now. He has quite a bit of power over the team since he can decline to sign with them thus forcing the team to trade him. Each week he remains unsigned, he's value diminish and he's a distraction to the rest of the team. So... trading him now is definitively in the Jets best interest.

Now as for value, if it is true that he only want to play in MTL, and his agent says as much to the other 31 teams... why would NYR or any other team pay through the nose to get him for only 2 yrs?? WIN should expect a return similar to a UFA rental, not a core piece to a young roster. The Jets are stuck... must trade him and nobody will see him as anything more then a UFA rental in terms of value. Win can mitigate the damage and try and play the pressure building around in MTL to get the deal done, but they wont get top tier return for him from anyone.

 

[hvac412]

He probably would like to move on after losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

I'd rather have Tkachuk over PLD any day of the week, c'mon Kent get it done

 

[EXPOS123]

I’d honestly trade Caulfield for tkachuck. Huge fan of his

 

[The Great Weal]

Man if only we got the Flames 2023 1st

 

[hvac412]

Imagine if we had drafted his brother instead of Bambi, and then possibly have the opportunity to get Matthew, one can only dream.

 

[BergevinBurner]

Any chance Ottawa goes for Matthew Tkachuk? I wouldn't mind seeing that happen lol