HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[Spring in Fialta]

Exactly. Bergevin has no merit. Vegas gifted him the better option.

This is bullshit and anyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty knows it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Thing is, FLA 1st pick has value not only in the odds of a better or closely equivalent player to Dubois.
It's also a cost-controlled asset for a whole ELC + initial RFA deal.
In today's league, that's not negligible value and has to be factored in, especially considering our cap situation.

Not a dealbreaker personnally but I'd try to avoid including it in the package.

I'd try to avoid trading the pick but the Panthers 1st does not have better odds than becoming a better than Dubois.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

If that is the case, there isn't a good fit for this trade. Happy to move on.

Montreal would be stupid to walk away from a 24 year-old top-6 center who's gung-ho about their franchise. Colossally stupid.

 

[Justin11]

I beleive this PLD to Habs will not happen, at least not for now.

 

[Milhouse40]

Hughes said himself, he wanted Dach and Chicago was asking for picks so he went and found a team who wanted to trade their high pick. That’s the reason he went and get the 13th.

Dubois has nothing to do with it but some people close their ears and continue to think the deal was for him lol.

To be fair....Hughes could've said what?
''Dach was not our 1st option but our backup plan and we were going for another player but it failed''

 

[Saundies]

That's on Chevy for offering Laine and Rost thinking they can convince Dubois to stay.

Fans can say what they want and get into trade wars but Hughes and Gorton need to stay calm. Don't get into wars and hold the line... the line being we are interested but at a price we can afford based on the Habs rebuilding and salary in needs to match salary out.

Panthers 1st, and Kidney. Contracts like Dvorak and pick one from Dadonov, Hoffman, Armia, Byron, Drouin.

I might possibly have Eddy in play but the package changes.

I'd do that trade all day but will the Jets? You might be able to wait til the deadline for a better offer, or you could just keep him for two years.

KC is in an insanely hard place right now. Not only would you not want to accommodate him and move him here but you're not getting full value for him no matter what you do.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Lowball Winnipeg until eternity. Take them for everything they've got.

Don't give anything of real value for PLD. Certainly not the Panthers' 1st. I even heard Guhle's name thrown around. LOL. I wouldn't even include Mailloux in the deal.

Winnipeg wants to play hard ball? Let them. Who cares?

PLD's coming home regardless. We don't need him in the next two years. PLD is gonna sign with us in two years and then win the Stanley Cup and be a legend forever in Montreal and Quebec.

Winnipeg should have done their homework before trading for him.

 

[Sorinth]

Pretty sure the Jets thought he would extend as well. You're overlooking the mutual connection of the Habs interested in Dubois and Dubois interested in the Habs. The only way Dubois forgets about Montreal is if he gets the feeling we don't want him and/or we are only willing to underpay him.

Dubois could get $8M from many teams including the Jets but if the Habs are willing to give him $7M or $7.5M, he's going to still want to force his way to UFA.

This is a unique situation and we are ignoring it. Why? Cause of the past where other players choose other teams.

Or he's traded to a contender and gets really close to the cup and decides he'd rather stick with the contending team to try and win a cup. A million things can change over the next 2 years, there is zero guarantee that Dubois won't end up in a better situation then he was in in CLB/Peg and decide to stay there for the next 6-7 years and only come home to MTL after that.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Or he's traded to a contender and gets really close to the cup and decides he'd rather stick with the contending team to try and win a cup. A million things can change over the next 2 years, there is zero guarantee that Dubois won't end up in a better situation then he was in in CLB/Peg and decide to stay there for the next 6-7 years and only come home to MTL after that.

Apparently his new 2 year contract has a full NMC except for the Habs. So it's Habs or Jets for the next two years.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I just don’t see how you think the downside risk of a 24 yo who just matched his best statistical year and moving into his prime years, is likely to regress. Why do you base this on exactly?

I'm not saying he's likely to regress. I just see people penciling him in for 10+ years and I am not that confident.

I worry specifically that his defense is not a strength of his game, which limits his two-way upside. And I worry that he might be better suited on the LW, because of position value. And I worry about the circumstances of him leaving two teams already. And in general, he's currently a solid second-liner, and when I watch hockey it's not all that rare for solid second-liners to all of sudden to be better suited better for the 3rd line.
So it's not really that I see more downside than upside, I just see some people assuming all the upside will happen and discounting any possibility of any downside, and I think that is a dangerous way to look at any player.

And finally, my main concern is that I see people discussing him almost like a prospect because he is 24, and while still young, all his cheap years are gone now and so he is contractually not any different from any other veteran because he will be paid like one. What I mean by that is it's not very useful to discuss any NHL player just by what he is without also including the AAV. Gallagher was a great player when he was making what was it? 3.5M? Heck he'd still be pretty good at that price. But at 6.5M he is a regular target on these boards. Every player's worth has to be judged in relation to his contract. I worry that PLD's next contract may be expensive - and make him not worth it, especially when you factor in the cost to acquire him..

 

[BenchBrawl]

My final offer is a 2nd round pick. Take it or leave it, Winnipeg.

I would even quietly suggest to PLD that he be ready to sit the next two years, to ensure he has absolutely zero trade value to any other team than us.

That's how Stalin would have done it.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Apparently his new 2 year contract has a full NMC except for the Habs. So it's Habs or Jets for the next two years.

It was a gag. Dubois hasn't signed any contract.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Apparently his new 2 year contract has a full NMC except for the Habs. So it's Habs or Jets for the next two years.

I'm pretty sure that was a joke tweet

 

[BenchBrawl]

My final offer is a 2nd round pick. Take it or leave it, Winnipeg.

I would even quietly suggest to PLD that he be ready to sit the next two years, to ensure he has absolutely zero trade value to any other team than us.

That's how Stalin would have done it.

I would even press Winnipeg to hurry up to accept it, lest I change my mind and bump it down to a 3rd.

 

[Saundies]

If you're the Jets, there are 4 options:

a) Sit him - doesn't do your team or him any good. You have a player at a key position not playing and haven't replaced him with anything. You could argue addition by subtraction attitude wise but on the ice, it's a net negative.

b) Keep him. Sign him for two years, he leaves - You lose him for nothing and have nothing to gain from the Laine trade.

c) Trade him to a team that's not MTL - definitely fine, but what value does a guy like PLD hold to these teams as a two year rental? You're still not going to get full value for him. Worth a 1st, certainly but if we're offering Florida's is it going to be better than that? If they're truly a contender, not likely. If these offers are more underwhelming than MTL's, do you do it anyway to spite the player? Maybe.

d) Trade him to MTL - you look like you give in to his demands, he gets exactly what he wants, and you probably get a lot less than he's worth. Potentially the best offer on the table, depending.

The problem is: none of these are really good options. But a decision has to be made.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It was a gag. Dubois hasn't signed any contract.

I'm pretty sure that was a joke tweet

I feel shame.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

this is what fellow fans aren't understanding. If we don't get him now, it won't happen in 2 years. PLD has gone all out to get to the Habs (will most likely sign a friendly 7x7) to solidify our 1A 1B Centers for the next decade.

Yo PLD, sorry brah they wanted Barron as well (we just couldn't do it), we'll hit you up in 2 ok?..... Hugo

When was the last time a legit Star, who becomes a core piece to go with: CC, Suzuki, Slaf... in essence gives us an impeccable top 6, allowing Hugo to focus on D and G for the next 2 years? - and then bam! we are going to make Cup runs. I can't ever recall (even UFAs) who are desperate to play for the Habs!! this deserves our open arms.

When was the last time a forward with a career high 61pts was deemed a 'legit star'?

 

[Takeru]

I'd try to avoid trading the pick but the Panthers 1st does not have better odds than becoming a better than Dubois.

That wasn't my point though. Of course the odds of Dubois being Dubois are 100% while a pick is a pick and carries uncertainty.

Let's throw numbers around, let's say you have 25% chance that picks becomes a close-to-better impact player as Dubois + ELC + 1st RFA deal. As well as being a more "universal" currency to be used in trades compared to PLD @ 7M$ or whatever. This is significant value brought to the table.

We agree on it not being a dealbreaker. My point was that should be the only futures that is part of the deal if it's put on the table.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

If you're the Jets, there are 4 options:

a) Sit him - doesn't do your team or him any good. You have a player at a key position not playing and haven't replaced him with anything. You could argue addition by subtraction attitude wise but on the ice, it's a net negative.

b) Keep him. Sign him for two years, he leaves - You lose him for nothing and have nothing to gain from the Laine trade.

c) Trade him to a team that's not MTL - definitely fine, but what value does a guy like PLD hold to these teams as a two year rental? You're still not going to get full value for him. Worth a 1st, certainly but if we're offering Florida's is it going to be better than that? If they're truly a contender, not likely. If these offers are more underwhelming than MTL's, do you do it anyway to spite the player? Maybe.

d) Trade him to MTL - you look like you give in to his demands, he gets exactly what he wants, and you probably get a lot less than he's worth. Potentially the best offer on the table, depending.

The problem is: none of these are really good options. But a decision has to be made.

This is a situation where I'd be reaaaaally curious to see what discussions between the Jets and Dubois looked like just before/right after the trade. Every option on the table for them sucks at this point and a trade to Montreal is undeniably the best one unless another team can convince Dubois to sign long-term with them and that team can beat Montreal's offer.

That wasn't my point though. Of course the odds of Dubois being Dubois are 100% while a pick is a pick and carries uncertainty.

Let's throw numbers around, let's say you have 25% chance that picks becomes a close-to-better impact player as Dubois + ELC + 1st RFA deal. As well as being a more "universal" currency to be used in trades compared to PLD @ 7M$ or whatever. This is significant value brought to the table.

We agree on it not being a dealbreaker. My point was that should be the only futures that is part of the deal if it's put on the table.

25% is an extremely generous figure.

 

[BenchBrawl]

lol at people seriously contemplating giving up any valuable asset for PLD in this spot.

Winnipeg fleeced their own self by trading for him. Now they must pay, one way or another.

I may be willing to include Sean Farrell in the deal if they take on Brenden Gallagher's contract.

 

[Takeru]

If you're the Jets, there are 4 options:

a) Sit him - doesn't do your team or him any good. You have a player at a key position not playing and haven't replaced him with anything. You could argue addition by subtraction attitude wise but on the ice, it's a net negative.

b) Keep him. Sign him for two years, he leaves - You lose him for nothing and have nothing to gain from the Laine trade.

c) Trade him to a team that's not MTL - definitely fine, but what value does a guy like PLD hold to these teams as a two year rental? You're still not going to get full value for him. Worth a 1st, certainly but if we're offering Florida's is it going to be better than that? If they're truly a contender, not likely. If these offers are more underwhelming than MTL's, do you do it anyway to spite the player? Maybe.

d) Trade him to MTL - you look like you give in to his demands, he gets exactly what he wants, and you probably get a lot less than he's worth. Potentially the best offer on the table, depending.

The problem is: none of these are really good options. But a decision has to be made.

I see him bringing value to Flames/Preds/NJD/NYI which all have cap space to fit him.
Bruins/Wild/NYR could be in the mix as well if they're able to move salary in the deal.

No clue what those teams would offer compared to us but with some wanting to take the next step/seeing their window closing, they might be up for a two-year young rental.

 

[CaptainKirk]

If you're the Jets, there are 4 options:

a) Sit him - doesn't do your team or him any good. You have a player at a key position not playing and haven't replaced him with anything. You could argue addition by subtraction attitude wise but on the ice, it's a net negative.

b) Keep him. Sign him for two years, he leaves - You lose him for nothing and have nothing to gain from the Laine trade.

c) Trade him to a team that's not MTL - definitely fine, but what value does a guy like PLD hold to these teams as a two year rental? You're still not going to get full value for him. Worth a 1st, certainly but if we're offering Florida's is it going to be better than that? If they're truly a contender, not likely. If these offers are more underwhelming than MTL's, do you do it anyway to spite the player? Maybe.

d) Trade him to MTL - you look like you give in to his demands, he gets exactly what he wants, and you probably get a lot less than he's worth. Potentially the best offer on the table, depending.

The problem is: none of these are really good options. But a decision has to be made.

I think A would be pretty petty. We'll see. I think a combo of B & C is where they potentially get their best return. Sign him for 2 years. Put him in front of the camera and make him answer media questions. Keep him but make it difficult. Don't give in to his demands as it sets a bad precedent. Then at the Trade Deadline, trade him as a rental to a team trying to make a push for the cup. The risk is, how will he react? Will he have a productive season? Will he be a distraction? Will teams even want to trade for an uninspired player, knowing he wants to be elsewhere? Will that potential return be any better than what MTL is offering and if so, is it worth the headache for the season?

 

[Takeru]

25% is an extremely generous figure.

Ok sure, reduce it and throw in a confidence interval if you'd like.

That wasn't the main point though.

 

[Archijerej]

The beauty in them not liking it is that they can kiss our ass.

Yes, but isn't that true with every trade offer?

 

[Guy Larose]

PLD for Future Considerations, final offer.