HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[Sasha Orlov]

I don't think anyone is saying no to Dubois. Just not to give up assets for him that can be used to acquire other prospects when they can just sign him in 2 years. Also they need to move enough contract in the trade to cover his contract. And his contract should be reasonable (less than Suzuki's) or forget it.

I’m saying no to Dubois, he’s overrated and not the type of player you win with imo

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think anyone is saying no to Dubois. Just not to give up assets for him that can be used to acquire other prospects when they can just sign him in 2 years. Also they need to move enough contract in the trade to cover his contract. And his contract should be reasonable (less than Suzuki's) or forget it.

There are some saying no to Dubois. So only speak for yourself.

I get the asset narrative to acquire but not all futures hit and Dubois is already a hit that is better than Dach and only one year older than Suzuki.

Cost to acquire is a factor and the extension yes. I've talked about this a fair amount over the last few days as well.

 

[Archijerej]

Really dude….

Hoffman, Petry, Armia contracts are not the same sad Suzuki’s…

There are a few big contracts on our team that we all know Hughes would like to get rid of. We all know what those are and we all know it’s not Suzuki


Ok didn’t know this would be so offensive my god. We should alert the church elders!!

This is what you wrote:

"Goal is to unload heavy contracts and going after Dubois does exactly the opposite."

I took from it that a significant contract for a 24 years old Dubois would be an issue and and logically concluded that Suzuki's must be an issue as well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm personally excited to see what Dach can do in Montreal, I'm not really interested in flipping him for Dubois. If the Habs are set on trading for Dubois then I really hope Dach's not part of it. If Winnipeg won't accept Dvorak, Fla 1st + roster player/prospect (or something like that) then I'm ok to wait on him.

I think things in Chicago have been tough mentally the last few years with all the negative media attention and with Dach being rushed to too many responsibilities due to Toews' situation. Not to mention the major injury Dach had. I think the Habs team work with him this off season to strengthen his arm and sharpen his focus and see what he can bring.

I wonder what the Jets are asking? Scheifele is 2 years away and just said he wants to win which created some controversy in his exit meeting this year. If they move Dubois, some say they need D but they need both D and centers.

So how high or low are they on Dach? Dvorak is the cap contract and no, he don't suck or is negative value. My original offer was both Dach and Dvorak but yeah, I'd like to retain Dach. I've revised my offer to Dvorak, Panthers 1st, and Kidney over the last two days.

If they can't reach an agreement and they decide to delay the trade talks for the coming season, I hope they only sign Dubois to one year. I want the change at sign/trade and to get him to a fair cap hit. Otherwise, if they sign him to 2 years, I'm more worried about what he asked for after two years with a higher cap.

Saying "we can just sign him in 2 years" is wishful thinking. Yeah, he's interested and we would love to add him for free but not at $9M+ when the cap is approaching $90M.

 

[Team_Spirit]

People want to give less for PLD then what we got for Lehkonen or Chiarot? Seems realistic to me.

 

[NewEraGM]

Just avoid it and the problem goes away

I mean in the same way that you’re allowed to talk about it, I’m allowed to have my own opinion by saying that it’s useless to talk about it. You’re just going off a hope an prayer that it happens. So I’m not really going to avoid it…have a great day, let me know when the trade happens ok

This is what you wrote:

"Goal is to unload heavy contracts and going after Dubois does exactly the opposite."

I took from it that a significant contract for a 24 years old Dubois would be an issue and and logically concluded that Suzuki's must be an issue as well.

Suzuki is not 24 years old and Suzukis contract is already on team whereas dubois is adding a new one. Big difference

 

[HomeAndHome]

People want to give less for PLD then what we got for Lehkonen or Chiarot? Seems realistic to me.

Offseason RFA, who may have told his team that he wants to play for MTL, vs trade deadline deals for teams going all in.

My suggestion of Dvorak + FLA 1st + prospect/other roster player is if Winnipeg is ready to move him if they think his attitude will hang over the team all year. We've seen Dubois quit on his current team before. If they won't accept something like that it's cool with me to pass on Dubois for the time being.

We don't have all of the info., If Dubois truely wants to come to Montreal, and isn't just trying to leverage a contract, then he can come here in free agency or Winnipeg can suck it up and accept less for him.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

People want to give less for PLD then what we got for Lehkonen or Chiarot? Seems realistic to me.

There is NO realistic in a flat cap world or Pacioretty and Burns wouldn't have been tossed out with the garbage.

 

[HomeAndHome]

I wonder what the Jets are asking? Scheifele is 2 years away and just said he wants to win which created some controversy in his exit meeting this year. If they move Dubois, some say they need D but they need both D and centers.

So how high or low are they on Dach? Dvorak is the cap contract and no, he don't suck or is negative value. My original offer was both Dach and Dvorak but yeah, I'd like to retain Dach. I've revised my offer to Dvorak, Panthers 1st, and Kidney over the last two days.

If they can't reach an agreement and they decide to delay the trade talks for the coming season, I hope they only sign Dubois to one year. I want the change at sign/trade and to get him to a fair cap hit. Otherwise, if they sign him to 2 years, I'm more worried about what he asked for after two years with a higher cap.

Saying "we can just sign him in 2 years" is wishful thinking. Yeah, he's interested and we would love to add him for free but not at $9M+ when the cap is approaching $90M.

Ya, as good as Dubois is I'm not throwing the kitchen sink at him. He's young and skilled, which is super attractive because he can grow with the core of MTL, but he gives off some Drouin-esque vibes to me. No situation is the same, but I still would like PLD on Mtl, hopefully something can be worked out!

 

[ForeverHabs97]

Cmon Chi town give us your best assets for peanuts.

Give me the loot!!!

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Cmon Chi town give us your best assets for peanuts.

Give me the loot!!!

 

[waitin425]

Four MAIN moves and the rebuild is complete.

1. Trade Petry to Dallas for Logan Stankoven and whatever they need to dump cap

2. Trade Dvorak + Kidney + Florida 1st for PLD

3. Draft highest possible pick in 2023

4. Offersheet Laf at 7 mil next offseason (Lose 2024 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks)

Assets to sell or trade
Drouin - 2023 TDL
Allen - 2023 TDL
Dad - 2023 TDL
Byron - 2023 TDL

Acquire a mix of picks and prospects for the above as we will graduate a ton of prospects. Depending on 2023 draft pick, we can make room for them if they are NHL ready.

2023/24 roster

Laf (7) - Suzuki (7.875) - CC (7.875)
Slaf (950K) - PLD (7) - Anderson (5.5)
Farrell (950) - Dach (3)- Gally (6.5)
Hoffman (4.5) - Evans (1.7) - Armia (3.4)
Ylonen (1.1)

Guhle (863K) - Savard (3.5)
Eddie (3.5) - Barron (925K)
Harris (1.5) - Mailloux (863K)
Wideman (762K)

Primeau (3.5)
Dobes (863)

~83 mil in cap for active roster

 

[Adam Michaels]

This was their f***n' tease??

 

[Drive425]

There is NO realistic in a flat cap world or Pacioretty and Burns wouldn't have been tossed out with the garbage.

Patches deal is a real head scratcher though. With 1 year left on his contract could've been flipped for assets at the TDL. Smells of incredibly poor asset management by VGK.

Burns on the other hand with that boat anchor of a contract is why his return was garbage.

 

[BaseballCoach]

If PLD is just good enough to drop you 1 spot at the draft and you end up missing on Fantilli or Carlsson because of that it affects the future of your franchise dramatically. All of that just so you can overpay (both in assets and $) for an entitled quebecois player ?

Trading for PLD is dumb on so many levels.

Clearly you don't want the player, because he is, as you put it, entitled and Québecois. (As an aside, would he be acceptable to you if he were entitled but from elsewhere, say Slovakia?)

Your feelings and triggers aside, the right player to bet on is a legit issue. Of course, it is Hugo who will decide, not you or I, but deciding on that horse is the first step. I doubt that one of the levels they will consider to be a red flag is that he is Québecois.

Once the target is identified, they would evaluate whether the assets and $ to acquire their player are worth it (rather than just dismissively assume in advance that they are not).

I could discuss this some more, if you're open to a rational exchange.

 

[tazsub3]

I’m saying no to Dubois, he’s overrated and not the type of player you win with imo

I am saying yes for a player that what’s your go home to Montréal . By choice
It is a new era and such a move will be beneficial and kid has shown more then Mika did before the rangers got him

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’m saying no to Dubois, he’s overrated and not the type of player you win with imo

I would make the move but only if the trade is not a gold mine. Dvorak, Panthers 1st, and Kidney is as high as I go.

Over the last two years, Dubois has 7 more points and 3 more goals (pro rated numbers) vs Dvorak. Dubois is better than Dvorak but overrated? Depends on who you ask and what you think the overrated thresholds are.

Dubois and Anderson types are pieces you win with. We disagree there. These guys have way more value in the playoffs than the regular season

 

[SwiftyHab]

I would make the move but only if the trade is not a gold mine. Dvorak, Panthers 1st, and Kidney is as high as I go.

Over the last two years, Dubois has 7 more points and 3 more goals (pro rated numbers) vs Dvorak. Dubois is better than Dvorak but overrated? Depends on who you ask and what you think the overrated thresholds are.

Dubois and Anderson types are pieces you win with. We disagree there. These guys have way more value in the playoffs than the regular season

I’m hesistant to move Florida’s 1st. That might be a lottery pick this year

 

[Kent Nilsson]

This is what you wrote:

"Goal is to unload heavy contracts and going after Dubois does exactly the opposite."

I took from it that a significant contract for a 24 years old Dubois would be an issue and and logically concluded that Suzuki's must be an issue as well.

Yesterday, I read that Bergevin as of now has won the Drouin for Sergachev trade because Sergachev is now overpaid and thus Bergevin ended up saving us money. Do you think we should trade Guhle for PLD in case Guhle ends up overpaid ?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Patches deal is a real head scratcher though. With 1 year left on his contract could've been flipped for assets at the TDL. Smells of incredibly poor asset management by VGK.

Burns on the other hand with that boat anchor of a contract is why his return was garbage.

Burns contract was bad. But they retained 33% which makes it reasonable.

 

[Saundies]

The thing with Dubois is that it's obvious he wants to play here. He's made it clear to Winnipeg that he's leaving if he signs a bridge, and Brisson told RDS yesterday that he couldn't comment on wanting to be a Hab specifically for obvious reasons, but "Montreal is a city he would like to play in."

This isn't a Tavares situation where you have Darren Dreger saying "I think he'd want to play there maybe kinda sorta possibly" and then we don't get a meeting. This is his agent, while he's playing for another team, saying that publicly to the French media.

If you're Winnipeg, do you say "hmmm... okay let's sign him to a bridge and then lose him for nothing in 2 years" or do you move him? Any team that picks him up knows that they won't be able to sign him long term and will purely be using him as a rental at this point. Winnipeg very well might do that, as their reporter said the other day.

But if you can get him sooner rather than later and it doesn't hamper your future, I'd say do it.

 

[Takeru]

...the offersheet was ridiculously low for a player the caliber of Aho and it was reliant on Carolina being too cheap to deal with the upfront money owed on it...a stupid gamble that he made even worse with the loss of KK/trading MORE than we got for losing KK for Dvorak...tripling down on moronic, the Bargain Bin Way...

Feels like if there’s an opening for the gm job in vegas, Bergevin would be top candidate

 

[Takeru]

No need to rush trading anyone. So that could be a positive. You're not stuck a la Vegas where you have to give up valuable assets just to get rid of them.

You have guys with term.

For Petry, while he wants out, he did say he enjoyed playing for MSL. So that could be a motivation.

I think Petry's fate is determined by Klingberg's. With Brent Burns traded, once Klingberg is signed, a team that struck out on both could turn to Montreal.

But Habs don't need to move Petry. If the offers are underwhelming, then he starts the year with the Habs.

Exactly.
While it would be nice to see some players coming off the books sooner than later, there’s no incentive to get rid of them right away.

As long as we can afford to sign Dach, we can just roll with the same boring old lines from last year. There’s already a lot of guys bound to come off the cap next year, this is when we’ll start making more roster tweaks I think. Sucks but we’ll have to be patient.

 

[calder candidate]

How come? Even if you don't see him as a top line center, a #2C is usually still a part of the core when laying out a template for building a team. Especially if he's in the 21-40 range leaguewide, which is how I would rank Dubois at his best.

What is a core? I'd say it's your #1 goalie, two of your best defencemen, two of your best centermen + one or two other forwards. This may vary, of course. Some teams have won having more of a journeyman types in some of those roles (goalie, #2C, for example), but the general idea is sound I think. Now, if you want to make a distinction for a micro core of say, 2-3 players, then yeah, Dubois is likely not that, but I doubt anyone is advocating paying the price equal to a top-3 player on a contending team.

PDL is older than our core and will make a lot more money + you will have to give up 3 asset pick and prospect (which are all younger than PLD or our core)… This will be worst than Toronto signing Tavares because they got him for free has a UFA imagine the leafs without Tavares. The money they had to give out, the moves the had to make to be cap compliant and they were never able to assemble a good enough D core or goalie or dept up front because of it

Our goalie situation is now pretty bad, our defense is even worst yes we have lot of propect but half of them won’t make the NHL and we probably won’t have any legit #1 and most of them might be top 4 at best. And I like a lot of our FW but Suzuki, CC and Slaf everyone else is either unproven, injury risk, not part of the future core and overpaid.

Yes PLD is good yes he fit in but he isn’t the missing piece let assemble the reste of the puzzle and than you make a move, if he really want to come here he will be a UFA in 2 year and sign in MTL.

 

[Takeru]

The thing with Dubois is that it's obvious he wants to play here. He's made it clear to Winnipeg that he's leaving if he signs a bridge, and Brisson told RDS yesterday that he couldn't comment on wanting to be a Hab specifically for obvious reasons, but "Montreal is a city he would like to play in."

This isn't a Tavares situation where you have Darren Dreger saying "I think he'd want to play there maybe kinda sorta possibly" and then we don't get a meeting. This is his agent, while he's playing for another team, saying that publicly to the French media.

If you're Winnipeg, do you say "hmmm... okay let's sign him to a bridge and then lose him for nothing in 2 years" or do you move him? Any team that picks him up knows that they won't be able to sign him long term and will purely be using him as a rental at this point. Winnipeg very well might do that, as their reporter said the other day.

But if you can get him sooner rather than later and it doesn't hamper your future, I'd say do it.

Considering this situation, I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing him in.
Key is how you define hampering the future.
For me the cost would have to be dirt cheap (cap dumpish player going the other way, low end pick or one of our many lower tier prospects). Otherwise better off just waiting it out.
Also have to consider the fact our salary cap is still very much a mess, so throwing another 7M$+ guy into the mix without clearing out salary would be iffy to me.