HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[The Great Weal]

...Dorion might in Ottawa...for not much more than the Pacioretty, though (and not the TO Vegas trade)...Chevy needs forwards, so he might bite in the 'Peg...Anaheim needs pretty much everything, so maybe...

Do the Sens really need more wingers? Debrincat, Batherson, Tkachuk, Giroux, Formenton, Joseph is already a pretty good top 9 for wingers. Jets are likely seeking a rebuild as they are trying to trade away Scheifele and Wheeler, PLD will also leave and they are only left with Connor and Ehlers. Anaheim is also probably not looking to be competitive so I don't see why they would.

Preds, Islanders and Flames make the most sense to me. Drouin at 50% is definitely a good low buy option for them.

 

[Engelwood]

No. If Kadri went there they're definitely a playoff team though. The D while not exciting is decent. They have Hellebucyk too.

Flanders, Ehlers, Connors, Kadri, Lowry is a good start up front, which is where a PLD trade comes in. If we send them Dvorak & Anderson it definitely improves their forward depth, and adds a face-off specialist to their lineup.

Dvorak can play wing too, so you can go:

Connor-Flanders-Perfetti
Dvorak-Kadri-Ehlers
Anderson-Lowry-Wheeler?

Not terrible. Really doubt Kadri goes to Winnipeg. Only Paul Stastny seems to ever go there.

I am doubting we give up Anderson in that trade. Our price on Anderson is too high and rightfully so, also Anderson played some of his best hockey with PLD). PLD is a guy who does not want to sign in WPG at all other than a 2 year deal. Honestly the trade in my eyes will be something along the lines of:
Dvorak + B-level Prospect(Mysak/Ylonen/Heineman) + 2nd + Armia + 4th(Pitts) next year

We end up having to give up a 4th so they take Armia's contract. They also have familiarity with him and the fans still really like him. If you can convince them to take Hoffman over Armia you take it and run.

Winnipeg does not really need another Defensive prospect they are still high on Heinola, Salomonsson and Bauer. But they are short in their forward group. *This is coming from a guy from WPG that hears about them way too much from friends.

Winnipeg goes If the gets Kadri
Connor - Scheifele - Ehlers
Dvorak - Kadri - Perfetti
Armia - Lowry - Appleton (This line would be tough to play against, puts Armia in the Copp position)
Harkins/Toninato - Morgan/Harkins - Wheeler(Can move up and down the line up and still on the PP)

No Kadri
Connor - Scheifele - Pefetti
Ehlers - Dvorak - Wheeler
Armia - Lowry - Appleton (This line would be tough to play against, puts Armia in the Copp position)
Harkins/Toninato - Morgan/Harkins - Rookie/UFA signing

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Do the Sens really need more wingers? Debrincat, Batherson, Tkachuk, Giroux, Formenton, Joseph is already a pretty good top 9 for wingers. Jets are likely seeking a rebuild as they are trying to trade away Scheifele and Wheeler, PLD will also leave and they are only left with Connor and Ehlers. Anaheim is also probably not looking to be competitive so I don't see why they would.

Preds, Islanders and Flames make the most sense to me. Drouin at 50% is definitely a good low buy option for them.

...I edited in the Preds...they might grab Floaty or Armia if nudged a little (retention)...then we can see how much Carolina would want to move Ethan Bear's contract, adding a cheap RD that can at least play on the bottom pairing if HuGo wants another righty...

 

[The Great Weal]

Another smart play would be retaining on Edmundson at 50% since I’m sure teams would love to have him for cheap for 2 years and then get Scandella back with an asset since Blues are in cap trouble.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Another smart play would be retaining on Edmundson at 50% since I’m sure teams would love to have him for cheap for 2 years and then get Scandella back with an asset since Blues are in cap trouble.

...that's not tanking, that's SEPPUKU...

 

[ReHabs]

Ok so you’ve decided we’re talking about 2018, just as we had finished 3rd last, should have started a rebuild but Bergevin kept going for his improvisation re-tool nonsense that led to the disaster we are in today ?

Good comparison, trading for PLD would probably make as much sense today as trading for RoR or Drouin would have make back then.

Rebuilding means building. Acquiring ROR would’ve meant the Habs didn’t need to huddle around a trash can fire like hobos and hope to win a reliable centre once their luck turns around.

In this case it means the Habs don’t need to hope and pray that 30 point lurch-like Kirby Dach who cannot use his body suddenly doubles his production, fixes his skating, and improves his performance.

It means the Habs can focus on supporting and improving other aspects.

Another argument against your hardcore Love To Have a Bad Team Always stance is that in 2018 and thereabouts there Habs were in no position to rebuild. Weber and Price, you’re invested in them big time you cannot sell them and you cannot tank and rebuild in time to compete — you gotta go for it and add pieces when they become available. Bergevin didn’t do that until it was too late.

In our current situation we have a glut of NHL players who will not factor in be relevant in our future success (if/when it happens). The Jets need present day NHLers and also futures

So there is zero harm in shifting our NHLers and some of our excessive number of picks/prospects away for players/assets that will factor into our future success. It’s as easy and simple as that.

 

[Scriptor]

Byron should just retire imo, love the guy but he has only 1 year left on his contract anyway at 3.4M. At some point, he has to realize that the body does not want to cooperate anymore even though I am sure he would like to play this season. Sadly, not every player has the chance to compete until their late 30s, early 40s in this league.

I don't think Byron should give up 3.4M just like that. Keep trying to rehab but ride out the LTIR once you've proven you've tried. Retire at the end of the contract tp be realistic and stay in the best shape you can for the kids you have that you will want to enjoy life being around with.

 

[The Great Weal]

...I edited in the Preds...they might grab Floaty or Armia if nudged a little (retention)...then we can see how much Carolina would want to move Ethan Bear's contract, adding a cheap RD that can at least play on the bottom pairing if HuGo wants another righty...

Ya Ethan Bear is a good option. We could also try and get a pick from the Leafs by taking on Holl, I think he has a good chance to bounce back.

I'm ready to get wild and wacky with my trade proposals below:

Drouin (50%) to the Flames for a 2023 2nd
Edmundson (50%) to a team for a 2023 1st+prospect
Dadonov (50%) to a team for a 2023 2nd
Scandella+2024 2nd for future considerations
Holl+2024 2nd for future considerations
Allen for Francouz+2023 1st

So we got 4 1sts and 3 2nds for the 2023 draft, a 2024 1st and 3 2nds in the 2024 draft (will also have the room to get more picks once we offload all these guys and sign new guys).



Time for me to go to bed

 

[BaseballCoach]

Rebuilding means building. Acquiring ROR would’ve meant the Habs didn’t need to huddle around a trash can fire like hobos and hope to win a reliable centre

Rebuilding is indeed building.

The key piece for Buffalo was Poehling and the Habs blew the player evaluation...... yet again.

In our current situation we have a glut of NHL players who will not factor in be relevant in our future success (if/when it happens). The Jets need present day NHLers and also futures

So there is zero harm in shifting our NHLers and some of our excessive number of picks/prospects away for players/assets that will factor into our future success. It’s as easy and simple as that.

I largely agree. The question is what to give that isn't going to be needed later.

To me the answers include one center not named Suzuki, prospects without the plausible potential to be top 6 F or top 3-4D or starting G, and excess vets that might be useful on the ice but are excess to our rebuild.

By definition this also means NOT including any 1st or 2nd round picks.

So, I'm prepared to offer a package that includes:

A*. Exactly one center - Dach or Dvorak or Evans
B. Any prospect except Slaf, Nesar, Guhle, Barron, Hutson, Farrell, Roy, Dobes
C. Pitlick or Pezzetta, Byron or Drouin
D*. At least one other vet NHL winger except Caufield or Anderson or Dadonov
E. Any NHL D except Edmundson or Matheson i.e. Savard or Wideman
F. Monty or Primeau
G. One 3rd-4th round pick
H. One 5rd round or later pick

Of course not 8 assets but must include* one of A and one of D.

If shopping within these parameters does not work for Winnipeg, they can keep Dubois as a depreciating asset.

My logic is founded upon an evaluation that Dubois is a 2nd line C/LW. If I saw him as a 1C, i would add into the mix of options a first/second round pick or Dadonov or Anderson, and also Farrell, Roy and Allen

 

[ReHabs]

@BaseballCoach

In all honesty, I don't see Winnipeg as perfect trading partners because they're stuck in no-man's land and we don't know which direction they want to lean... but they do have a lot of cap space so that's as good as we can expect.

Your analysis on the trade package is solid.

Like you, I don't have any delusions about PLD. I simply think he's a good potential core player to acquire in exchange for player-assets that will not factor into our core in the future.

In the greater online Habs community (Until recently I was mostly posting on the Habs Reddit, which is akin to slamming one's head into a brick wall) Habs fans valuated Romanov as an untouchable, untradeable, core asset but they seemingly won't extend the courtesy toward PLD? Gimme a break. He would be one of the best forwards we've had since Kovalev, easily top5.

And that's an indictment of this organisation's conservatism in acquiring and fostering talent.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I am doubting we give up Anderson in that trade. Our price on Anderson is too high and rightfully so, also Anderson played some of his best hockey with PLD). PLD is a guy who does not want to sign in WPG at all other than a 2 year deal. Honestly the trade in my eyes will be something along the lines of:
Dvorak + B-level Prospect(Mysak/Ylonen/Heineman) + 2nd + Armia + 4th(Pitts) next year

We end up having to give up a 4th so they take Armia's contract. They also have familiarity with him and the fans still really like him. If you can convince them to take Hoffman over Armia you take it and run.

Winnipeg does not really need another Defensive prospect they are still high on Heinola, Salomonsson and Bauer. But they are short in their forward group. *This is coming from a guy from WPG that hears about them way too much from friends.

Winnipeg goes If the gets Kadri
Connor - Scheifele - Ehlers
Dvorak - Kadri - Perfetti
Armia - Lowry - Appleton (This line would be tough to play against, puts Armia in the Copp position)
Harkins/Toninato - Morgan/Harkins - Wheeler(Can move up and down the line up and still on the PP)

No Kadri
Connor - Scheifele - Pefetti
Ehlers - Dvorak - Wheeler
Armia - Lowry - Appleton (This line would be tough to play against, puts Armia in the Copp position)
Harkins/Toninato - Morgan/Harkins - Rookie/UFA signing

The Kadri lineup looks infinitely better, but I have serious doubts they're able to sign him.

 

[DAChampion]

YOU DON'T ACQUIRE GOOD PLAYERS BY ORDER. YOU ACQUIRE THEM WHEN THEY'RE AVAILABLE.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Instead of waiting until the deadline, I wonder if Hughes just retains 50% on Drouin and finds a taker for him this summer. He won't really have a chance to build value buried in the winger depth.

Drouin will be very difficult to move before the season. He's missed a lot of time the past two years, and had offseason wrist surgery. I cannot see teams taking him on, even at 50% salary, without first seeing if the wrist is still an issue.

Hoffman or Armia, even with two years left on their deals, may be easier to move before the season begins.

 

[FrankMTL]

Drouin will be very difficult to move before the season. He's missed a lot of time the past two years, and had offseason wrist surgery. I cannot see teams taking him on, even at 50% salary, without first seeing if the wrist is still an issue.

Hoffman or Armia, even with two years left on their deals, may be easier to move before the season begins.

Armia has three seasons left unfortunately....The only good news is that at 3.4 million, it can be moved a little easier, especially if he has a decent year.

 

[Archijerej]

We can't exactly afford PLD. He should wait til next summer when we'll have money.

We can and we will!

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I am doubting we give up Anderson in that trade. Our price on Anderson is too high and rightfully so, also Anderson played some of his best hockey with PLD). PLD is a guy who does not want to sign in WPG at all other than a 2 year deal. Honestly the trade in my eyes will be something along the lines of:
Dvorak + B-level Prospect(Mysak/Ylonen/Heineman) + 2nd + Armia + 4th(Pitts) next year

We end up having to give up a 4th so they take Armia's contract. They also have familiarity with him and the fans still really like him. If you can convince them to take Hoffman over Armia you take it and run.

Winnipeg does not really need another Defensive prospect they are still high on Heinola, Salomonsson and Bauer. But they are short in their forward group. *This is coming from a guy from WPG that hears about them way too much from friends.

Winnipeg goes If the gets Kadri
Connor - Scheifele - Ehlers
Dvorak - Kadri - Perfetti
Armia - Lowry - Appleton (This line would be tough to play against, puts Armia in the Copp position)
Harkins/Toninato - Morgan/Harkins - Wheeler(Can move up and down the line up and still on the PP)

No Kadri
Connor - Scheifele - Pefetti
Ehlers - Dvorak - Wheeler
Armia - Lowry - Appleton (This line would be tough to play against, puts Armia in the Copp position)
Harkins/Toninato - Morgan/Harkins - Rookie/UFA signing

While all this talk about PLD, Hellebucyk has come out & said he won't resign if Jets are rebuilding. If they don't make improvements this year & actually make the playoffs why would Hellebucyk sign an extension next summer? He won't. He's gone in 2024 too unless they trade him next summer when he refuses to sign an extension.

And, why would PLD sign an extension when he probably understands that it's unlikely Helle or maybe even Schiefele will?

So far Chevy has done f*** all this summer. Wheeler is impossible to move without 50% retention and even then they would likely have to give him away.

Like Calgary, Jets are on the verge of crashing down the standings.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Can't wait for the PLD nonsense to be done so I can stop reading the same 5-10 posts ad nauseum. I know the mythos has already begun because many view him as an honourary Hab already, 'beats entire teams in the playoffs by himself', but he's only good, not great.

Isn't there some young RHD a hack journalist can pretend we've already got a deal in place for?

 

[waitin425]

I feel like those arguing against PLD are simply stuck on the idea of having the best possible odds at Bedard. If I could have Bedard over PLD I would take that in a heart beat......but even without PLD we only have a CHANCE at Bedard. I would rather at this point take a chance on the sure thing.....PLD.

As for those saying..."that's not a proper rebuild".

Well yes it is. The kid is only 24. An established 60 point centre with some room to grow. He fits the rebuild perfectly if our window for competing is 4-8 years out.

PLD for Dvorak, B+ level prospect and Florida 1st should be more than enough.

If this forward lineup doesn't represent a rebuild, I don't know what does....

Drouin - Suzuki (22) - Cole (21)
Slaf (18) - PLD (24) - Andy (28)
Dad - Dach (21) - Gally
Pitlick (25) - Evans (26) - Armia
Hoffman

Average age of what I would consider our core forward group is ... 23.12

Continue with the strategy of trading and retaining on expiring assets at the TDL to create cap space.

Drouin, Hoffman, Dad, Gally and Army should all be made available for the right price, with the goal of moving them within 2 years. Replace them with current prospects on ELC's; Roy, Farrell, Mesar and whoever we pick in 2023 and this core gets younger.

I am fully on the PLD train. Let's get him!

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Archijerej]

No need to rush to get Dubois. Let just wait when he is UFA.

It's been explained already why this is not a great idea.

If we don't want Dubois, that's fine, but we should really don't expect he'll just fall into our laps and at affordable cap hit in two years.

 

[CaptainKirk]

PLD for Dvorak, B+ level prospect and Florida 1st should be more than enough.

I am fully on the PLD train. Let's get him!

If it were that easy, he'd be a Hab already. The problem is the Jets don't want what we're offering. They likely want a Suzuki or Ghule+. That's not happening. So that's why we wait.

 

[waitin425]

If it were that easy, he'd be a Hab already. The problem is the Jets don't want what we're offering. They likely want a Suzuki or Ghule+. That's not happening. So that's why we wait.

Agreed. I want him but not at the cost of our other core pieces. Wait for two and acquire him then. Jets are going to take what we give essentially and teams looking for a two year rental won't spend a crazy amount knowing his intentions already. We are in a glorious position with regards to this scenario.

 

[Adam Michaels]

No need to rush to get Dubois. Let just wait when he is UFA.

If the price is reasonable, I'd rather trade for him and get him here sooner.

But the position Montreal is in is that they don't need to give in to anything Winnipeg wants. Habs can stay the course and leave things as they are. They continue to trade players to create room on the cap.

And then in two years, when they have the cap space and PLD becomes a UFA, they can see if the fit is there. If he ends up being traded somewhere else and he signs an extension there, Habs still have the cap space and could look elsewhere.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I feel like those arguing against PLD are simply stuck on the idea of having the best possible odds at Bedard. If I could have Bedard over PLD I would take that in a heart beat......but even without PLD we only have a CHANCE at Bedard. I would rather at this point take a chance on the sure thing.....PLD.

As for those saying..."that's not a proper rebuild".

Well yes it is. The kid is only 24. An established 60 point centre with some room to grow. He fits the rebuild perfectly if our window for competing is 4-8 years out.

PLD for Dvorak, B+ level prospect and Florida 1st should be more than enough.

If this forward lineup doesn't represent a rebuild, I don't know what does....

Drouin - Suzuki (22) - Cole (21)
Slaf (18) - PLD (24) - Andy (28)
Dad - Dach (21) - Gally
Pitlick (25) - Evans (26) - Armia
Hoffman

Average age of what I would consider our core forward group is ... 23.12

Continue with the strategy of trading and retaining on expiring assets at the TDL to create cap space.

Drouin, Hoffman, Dad, Gally and Army should all be made available for the right price, with the goal of moving them within 2 years. Replace them with current prospects on ELC's; Roy, Farrell, Mesar and whoever we pick in 2023 and this core gets younger.

I am fully on the PLD train. Let's get him!

I think most who don't want PLD right now at a heavy cost (myself included) see him as a second liner who is more of a complimentary piece. I don't think he is someone to build around.

 

[Frozenice]

Doesn’t the NTC kick in after he becomes a UFA, which he won’t in the next 2 years?