HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[Boss Man Hughes]

I don't see Habs making this deal without sending money the other way. Whether that is in the form of Dvorak or Anderson.

For one, Habs would need to make more room on the cap to fit the potential PLD contract. But also, I don't see Jets send PLD without getting a center back. So I could see them want Dvorak to play behind Scheifele.

2 of Dvorak, Anderson, Armia, Hoffman have to go. If they trade Hoffman and have to pay to move him I wouldn't offer more than Dvorak, a prospect like Harris, and a top 10 protected 2024 1st. Of course they can have Armia if they want him too.

 

[BaseballCoach]

But the question is how are they going to cover Dubois' contract now. 7-8 million in contracts would have to go the other way. It's possible that Montreal couldn't make the trade on draft day because it was conditional on a Petry trade to open up cap space that fell through. Now it's possible that they need to move Hoffman in order to have enough cap space to do a Dubois deal.

That's ridiculous becaaue Winnipeg itself has space, so they take an expiring contract on top of the actual return and Habs just advance the timing of that expiring contract by one year. Or if Winnipeg prefers, they can take Arrmia or Hoffman or Savard if they could use them on the ice past this year.

Option A:
Dach or Dvorak or Evans (one center)
Pitlick or Pezzetta or Ylonen (one cheap bottom 6er)
one of Hoffman, Armia, Savard (vet contract)
bonus: Byron or Drouin if they wish, or one more B prospect or 4th round pick.

Option B if they want Anderson as centerpiece:
Dach or Dvorak or Evans
Anderson
Two of Armia, Hoffman, Savard

I really think we should not offer any 2023 firsts; in fact, I would like to get a third for Dadonov if he scores well this year. However if they must have a first:

Option C:
Later of two 2023 firsts (both top 10 protected)
Evans
Two of Armia, Hoffman, Savard
Byron or Drouin or any one prospect except 1st round picks, Hutson, Harris, Farrell

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

center core would look great and young if we can land Dubois

Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Caufield
Drouin - PLD - Anderson
Armia - Dach - Gallagher
Byron - Evans - Pezetta

i know people like to s*** on Drouin all day long but on a contract year with MSL here i think he has a better year if he can stay healthy hes still a skilled player its just mental with him

Dvorak + Norlinder + FLA 1st for PLD

Hoffman + pick for future considerations

Good except since they can't put restrictions on Florida's pick I would give them a 2024 1st

 

[Apfel Struble]

PLD is way better as a winger than as a center. If he was acquired, I'd definitely try him with Caufield and Suzuki on the 1st line

What worries me about that trade is that the Jets have deluded themselves into thinking they should contend. I'm not sure Florida's 1st is something they are interested in. They want roster players and Montreal is rather thin in that department. Dvorak is of course the main hypothetical piece but who else who you add? Edmunson, Evans and Ylonen/Harris? This would gut the center depth and I don't think it's enough for the Jets

Armia I would keep, if he plays like he did in his first 3 seasons in Montreal, he'll be worth a 1st at the trade deadline. Never underestimate the value of 6'3 defensively responsible players

 

[tazsub3]

What worries some fans is precisely that you included that he is Québecois. This reasoning leads some to fear that people want an overpayment to make sure he comes. So then the opponents use the term "entitled Québecois" and all rational focus is lost.

Let me know when people start fawning over the 28 year old former 1st round pick Québecer we actually got in exchange for for an entitled and disgruntled American. He's on the team, where is the parade?

but fans have to understand it is a elite management that we have now. i have no fear of media influence in that reguard.

 

[ML16]

24 is usually peak production for NHL forwards on average statistically. Plus he will be getting paid like a finished product so he better not be a project. Are you saying you're expecting him to greatly improve? It's not impossible, but it's statistically unlikely.


The Florida 1st is untouchable for me. Untouchable. Unless it is valued like David Pastrnak.

Depends on the long term contract’s Dubois is seeking, but if the latter would be satisfied by Suzuki-like terms (+/- 7.5M AAV), that would actually be a serious incentive for the Habs to acquire Dubois before 2024, even at the expense of a package including FLA’s 2023 1st.

Notwithstanding the risk that Dubois explodes, such a « premature » move would indeed likely save around 2M AAV on his next deal, if only because the salary cap will likely be readjusted in 2024, once the pandemic provisions will have been fully repaid.

Obviously, the most opportune timeframe for a Dubois deal would however be later in 2023 (TDL or draft lottery), so that his eventual acquisition doesn’t impair the Habs rankings too favourably for next year and, more importantly, so that the Habs don’t find themselves in a weak position to imperatively have to shed salary (Dvorak and +/- 4M winger) make a Dubois deal work.

With Dubois’ trade value basically dropping to a 1-year rental for 2024 contenders [« A quality » prospect + (late) 1st] and the cap flexibility and assets fetched at TDL 2023, the Habs can indeed circle back on Dubois at some point before the 2023 draft and put forward a (slightly) better, mutually beneficial, proposal based on the Jets’ primary objective next offseason : either compete one last time with Scheifele/Hellebuyck, or blow it up and initiate a rebuild/retool.

In the end, having both Suzuki-Dubois locked long-term under 8M would not only set up a complementary « 1-2 punch » for the next decade, it would also strongly dictate the financial structure of the future core, since hardly any player will then be in a position to ask for more AAV than them, besides maybe (hopefully!) the Habs’ 2023 1st and an impactful top-RHD in a few years!

 

[Natey]

No need to gut our team/prospects. If we cannot get him now for Dvorak/Anderson + FLA 1, and a B prospect (ylonen, norlinder) then we walk away and take our chances on signing him in 2 years.

It's our best time to shed salary. Dvorak + Anderson is a must for cap. Add in the FLA 1st and a prospect like Norlinder or Tuch.

Dadonov - Suzuki - Caufield
Drouin - Dubois - Hoffman
Slafkovsky - Dach - Gallagher
Ylonen - Evans - Pitlick
Pezzetta, Byron, Armia.

Shedding Dvorak + Anderson would let us sign Dubois, Dach, and Monty.

And we still have Byron, Dadonov, and Drouin coming off the cap the next year. Basically $14M, with only Caufield and Harris to sign.

The only bad contracts we will have left are Price, Gallagher, and Armia. Hoffman will be on his last year, so he'll be moveable especially if he can produce this season.

Ps. I'd prefer Slafkovsky in the AHL with Mesar, but everytime I hear Hughes talk, it really seems like it'll be the NHL to start.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

That's ridiculous becaaue Winnipeg itself has space, so they take an expiring contract on top of the actual return and Habs just advance the timing of that expiring contract by one year. Or if Winnipeg prefers, they can take Arrmia or Hoffman or Savard if they could use them on the ice past this year.

Option A:
Dach or Dvorak or Evans (one center)
Pitlick or Pezzetta or Ylonen (one cheap bottom 6er)
one of Hoffman, Armia, Savard (vet contract)
bonus: Byron or Drouin if they wish, or one more B prospect or 4th round pick.

Option B if they want Anderson as centerpiece:
Dach or Dvorak or Evans
Anderson
Two of Armia, Hoffman, Savard

I really think we should not offer any 2023 firsts; in fact, I would like to get a third for Dadonov if he scores well this year. However if they must have a first:

Option C:
Later of two 2023 firsts (both top 10 protected)
Evans
Two of Armia, Hoffman, Savard
Byron or Drouin or any one prospect except 1st round picks, Hutson, Harris, Farrell

Not moving Dach unless they take Gallagher.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's our best time to shed salary. Dvorak + Anderson is a must for cap. Add in the FLA 1st and a prospect like Norlinder or Tuch.

Dadonov - Suzuki - Caufield
Drouin - Dubois - Hoffman
Slafkovsky - Dach - Gallagher
Ylonen - Evans - Pitlick
Pezzetta, Byron, Armia

If it is indeed the best time to shed salary, then one of Armia, Savard or Hoffman has to be included. Winnipeg has more space than most teams, Don't wait and hope. Get one done at least.

Not moving Dach unless they take Gallagher.

Dach is not likely better than Dubois, and there is no first involved, and we move one vet contract - so what is the problem?

 

[salbutera]

I think Hughes has a huge opportunity to fleece the Jets right now and I wouldn't be surprised if he does.

People here often talk about generational talent, I think we are at cusp of a generalational fleece, that once in a generation trade that a GM zero sum wins over the other loser losing GM

NYR should’ve fleeced Jets on Trouba deal, in a similar situation but didn’t .. Pionk has turned into as good of not better Dman + the 1st rounder netted Winter-peg Heinola.

Chevaldayoff’s been down this road a few times now, he knows how to play the situation as well…

 

[Natey]

If it is indeed the best time to shed salary, then one of Armia, Savard or Hoffman has to be included. Winnipeg has more space than most teams, Don't wait and hope. Get one done at least.


Dach is not likely better than Dubois, and there is no first involved, and we move one vet contract - so what is the problem?

Including Anderson + Dvorak is $10M in cap.

If they'd take one of the smaller contracts too, great. But I find that doubtful.

Savard is clearly wanted by management. He wants some veteran defense. Savard also isn't even that bad.

I'd gladly include Armia and one of 4ths as well lol

 

[Runner77]

Chevaldayoff’s been down this road a few times now, he knows how to play the situation as well…

Gorton’s no slouch and will provide the GM experience that Hughes doesn’t have.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Depends on the long term contract’s Dubois is seeking, but if the latter would be satisfied by Suzuki-like terms (+/- 7.5M AAV), that would actually be a serious incentive for the Habs to acquire Dubois before 2024, even at the expense of a package including FLA’s 2023 1st.

Notwithstanding the risk that Dubois explodes, such a « premature » move would indeed likely save around 2M AAV on his next deal, if only because the salary cap will likely be readjusted in 2024, once the pandemic provisions will have been fully repaid.

Obviously, the most opportune timeframe for a Dubois deal would however be later in 2023 (TDL or draft lottery), so that his eventual acquisition doesn’t impair the Habs rankings too favourably for next year and, more importantly, so that the Habs don’t find themselves in a weak position to imperatively have to shed salary (Dvorak and +/- 4M winger) make a Dubois deal work.

With Dubois’ trade value basically dropping to a 1-year rental for 2024 contenders [« A quality » prospect + (late) 1st] and the cap flexibility and assets fetched at TDL 2023, the Habs can indeed circle back on Dubois at some point before the 2023 draft and put forward a (slightly) better, mutually beneficial, proposal based on the Jets’ primary objective next offseason : either compete one last time with Scheifele/Hellebuyck, or blow it up and initiate a rebuild/retool.

In the end, having both Suzuki-Dubois locked long-term under 8M would not only set up a complementary « 1-2 punch » for the next decade, it would also strongly dictate the financial structure of the future core, since hardly any player will then be in a position to ask for more AAV than them, besides maybe (hopefully!) the Habs’ 2023 1st and an impactful top-RHD in a few years!

I wouldn't want to sign him to a contract like that. He's a good player but I don't think he will improve significantly and I don't see him as someone to build around. To me he is a decent 2C - hardly something to get FOMO about

 

[Captain Mountain]

NYR should’ve fleeced Jets on Trouba deal, in a similar situation but didn’t .. Pionk has turned into as good of not better Dman + the 1st rounder netted Winter-peg Heinola.

Chevaldayoff’s been down this road a few times now, he knows how to play the situation as well…

The whole thing with the Trouba deal is that everyone thought that the Rangers did fleece the Jets in the deal. Pionk was awful with the Rangers:



And Heinola (who, btw, hasn't done much in the NHL or AHL), was taken using the Jets own first which they traded with Brenand Lemieux and a 4th to the Rangers for renting Kevin Hayes.

Jets fans were asking for things like the 2019 2nd OA pick, Buchnevich ++ or multiple top prospects from the Rangers. A majority of posters on here (given how bad Pionk had been in New York) thought that the Jets got less for Trouba than they paid to rent Hayes.

And Gorton has been down this road before too and Hughes is a former player agent, they know how to negotiate from positions of stength and weakness.

EDIT: Pionk was also pretty bad last season and significantly worse than Trouba.

 

[Adam Michaels]

exactly , we are in a position of strength. if we can have him cheap (now or next year or after) like the rangers did. then i am all for it. if not the course we on is more then fine

Yup. The position of strength the Habs are in is that they don't have to do anything. Either trade PLD to us for this package we want to pay or don't trade him to us. We will stay the course.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

It's very simple for me to know which assets to give up. We are building a core of young players and we shouldn't give any of our top players in each position to ensure we aren't lacking somewhere.

Next, we have to consider the impact Dubois can make on the habs. He's a legitimate big top 6 C/LW who has been a difference maker in the playoffs before. If you get the best player in the trade, then you generally win it.

With these considerations, the only players and assets I wouldn't include in an offer are Slaf, Suzuki, Cole, Ghule, Barron and a potential top 10 pick in this year's stacked draft class (I'd only give up a 1st this year if it's top 10 protected).

Everyone else should be considered depending on the package as I feel Dubois is a safe bet to have a greater impact with this core.

A combination of (not all of) Dvo, Anderson, Dach, Farrell, Roy, Harris, Norlinder, Mailloux, and draft picks definitely can entice Winnipeg.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

This is entirely fair but I wonder if you have the same criticism of Suzuki? He’s paid like a finished product but he’s more or less as productive as PLD.

Suzuki will be paid like PLD this year = he wasn't last year. But yes Suzuki next year will be pretty telling on his PPG potential. Big differences are that Suzuki is an extremely good defensive player, which PLD is not, and Suzuki screams professional, which PLD and his shenanigans with 2 successive teams do not. So even if they end up with similar PPG, Suzuki is the much better defensive player so a much better contract to sign, and I trust him way more to build around because of his A+ character.

BTW - last year was PLD's 23 year, which should be his PP60 peak, this next year should be his PPG peak. Suzuki is 22 will be 23 in August, so this should be his PP60 peak, 2023-24 should be his PPG peak. All things considered, judging from all these variables, I would say that Suzuki is quite a bit more valuable than PLD. And that's my problem with PLD's next contract - because he will get paid a bunch and I don't think he'll be worth what he's paid.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Suzuki and Caufield are never going to happen but neither can one underestimate a counterpart. Maybe Chevaldayoff will find a better return just flipping Dubois to another team and let them figure out if they can convince him to sign long term.

Jets reporter has reported that this isn't considered an option because teams know that Dubois will have no intention of re-signing with them past 2024.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

It's very simple for me to know which assets to give up. We are building a core of young players and we shouldn't give any of our top players in each position to ensure we aren't lacking somewhere.

Next, we have to consider the impact Dubois can make on the habs. He's a legitimate big top 6 C/LW who has been a difference maker in the playoffs before. If you get the best player in the trade, then you generally win it.

With these considerations, the only players and assets I wouldn't include in an offer are Slaf, Suzuki, Cole, Ghule, Barron and a potential top 10 pick in this year's stacked draft class (I'd only give up a 1st this year if it's top 10 protected).

Everyone else should be considered depending on the package as I feel Dubois is a safe bet to have a greater impact with this core.

A combination of (not all of) Dvo, Anderson, Dach, Farrell, Roy, Harris, Norlinder, Mailloux, and draft picks definitely can entice Winnipeg.

I don't think you can judge anything from looking at how good players are without looking at the contracts. It has next to nothing to do with modern sports in the cap era. A good player on a bad contract has negative value. An average player on a good contract has positive value. Just going out and acquiring good players without thinking about contracts will get you nowhere fast.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

No one has anointed PLD anything

It’s in context of retaining Suzuki and Caufield that all the speculation for PLD’s acquisition happens. As a supplementary piece of the ongoing and future core.

Some people insist he is a 1C. Others point out he is a 2C. It was in that context the comment was made.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I'd give up the 2024 1st for Dubois.

 

[Barriwhite]

I'd give up the 2024 1st for Dubois.

Me too. Unprotected, too. Going after Dubois means we’re accelerating the rebuild, and should avoid trading away our young Ds that are almost here. Sacrificing a 1st instead that’s two years away, and likely more than that from making any impact on the ice whatsoever, is consistent. I don’t think it tips the scale favorably for WPG though.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I would trade Josh Anderson and a 4th for PLD.

 

[Runner77]

I would trade Josh Anderson and a 4th for PLD.

Where do we sign?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I would trade Josh Anderson and a 4th for PLD.

Why would the Jets accept that? And why would the Habs only offer that when they, you know, actually want him?