HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[MarkovsKnee]

If the Jets reneged on a deal to add more, that’s bush league stuff.

Exactly. Hughes should walk away.

 

[BaseballCoach]

. So if Gally waives his NTC to allow this offer to work - do you take it?

I would probably take it. Caufield has one more cheap year then will shoot up if he hits 35+ goals.

Dubois should be a solid 2C and we are rid of Gallagher while adding a furst in a good draft - a possible top ten pick.

Now look at Winnipeg side.

They trade an unprotected first for Caufield, which might be 50/50
and then they deal Dubois for Gallagher!!!

They would NEVER do it.

 

[Adam Michaels]

That's the Petry trade. Montreal had to wait til Pens moved money, so he was right. That was definitely set-up at draft, as there is a moment in Day 1 where Hughes goes over to Pens table and discusses things with Hextall.

The Dubois trade would have been a pre-trade like Romanov/Dach trade and announced at the draft with PLD in attendance.

You're right. But I believe it was on Day 2.

I remember seeing that. I also saw Hughes go over to the New Jersey table and talk to Tom Fitzgerald. I still remember Brodeur's face looking at the two of them chatting and had that "WTF are these two idiots talking about?"

When you consider that Pens traded Marino to New Jersey before Habs traded Petry to Pens, it's possible Hughes was checking in with both Hextall and Fitzgerald to get some info if they plan to complete the Marino/Ty Smith deal since the Petry trade depended on that one being done.

 

[Natey]

Anderson can be moved for a haul without retaining a cent on his contract whether you like him or not.

Acting like just getting rid of his contract is plus value is just plain wrong. That’s not even considering that Winnipeg has no leverage, Habs don’t need to trade for him.

Right. Patches for free, Anderson for a haul.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

They'll always say that, but even if that's true, having Dach as an option at the draft means you might want to spend a little less on Dubois. Maybe they've been asking about Dach but Chicago didn't decide until the start of the draft to accept.

There's this theory out there on the Jets board that Dach was acquired as part of a return to Winnipeg for Dubois but I don't believe that. I think Montreal wants Suzuki/Dubois/Dach for the long-term future but maybe tried to use the Dach situation to lower the price on Dubois.

You're right - the Dach theory makes no sense.
Jets owned the 14th pick and could've added another pick of their own to acquire him as opposed to adding the complexity of having us acquire him to flip him to them

 

[tbcwpg]

Just curious, What are your thoughts of PLD as an NHL C? How is his defensive game and ability to win key draws? It seems to me like he took shifts off when I saw him (mostly 2 years ago)... is that still the case?

I think he's just OK as a defensive C but it's been hard to tell with the mess the Jets have had in their own zone for years. The Jets system has made many players look worse defensively than they probably are, but I'd say Dubois as a defensive C is just adequate. He'll never win a Selke. He was also below 50% in face-off % last season.

He may take shifts off from time to time but lots of players do.

 

[Milhouse40]

This is intriguing

Brisson might be forcing their hands so the Jets elect themselves to go for arbitration.

And this is the big difference if the club decide to move to arbitration because the player refuse to sign his QO which seems to be the case right now, the player ends up deciding the terms for their arbitration, either it's one year or 2 years AND the team can't place the numbers lower than the qualifying offer on the table (In this case it's 6M$) so they are not starting at a good numbers here for negotiations, teams usually lowball their offers in arbitration and it usually ends up near the middle.

If Dubois decide the arbitration is going to be for 2 years.....the team can walk away but compare to when it's the player that elect to go to arbitration, even if the team walks away of a 2 years arbitration case, they are still force to give him that contract for one year and the player is UFA at the end of the season.

 

[bcv]

Right. Patches for free, Anderson for a haul.

Right. Vegas cap situation is the same as the Habs

You don’t seem to grasp the concept of leverage, both in the dubois offer you made and the patch trade.

I don’t really care to continue this debate anyway, your « arguments » wont change my mind.

 

[Archijerej]

From a Jets POV, I have a different read. I understand both sides will think that their guy didn't change it, but this is my scenario:

The Jets and Habs had a deal for Dubois ready. Maybe it depended on who was available at 7, but they had one.

Hughes is presented with the opportunity to get Dach. Now he has some leverage over the Jets so he says "I've got a chance at another guy for a bit less". Now the guy who was in the trade is someone the Habs don't want to give up anymore. Is it a d-man prospect like Guhle or Barron that becomes less expendable now that you've had to move Romanov?

Jets balk on the new deal and the trade doesn't go through.

I think there's an equal likelihood of both, but we know Hughes and PLD's agent have been very public about him wanting to play for you guys, and the Dach trade seemed to come together quickly, so there's support to the idea that it was Hughes who tried to change the trade at the last minute.

Could've been Chevy as well. We may never know for sure.

Perhaps, but we had reports that it was Chevy who walked back on a deal (may have been wrong). Nothing about Hughes (doesn't mean it didn't happen).

Also, it doesn't seem like the Dach trade was a spur of the moment thing. Apparently, it was discussed weeks before the draft and agreed upon before draft night.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I mean...not sure what's shocking about that.

If the Habs want Dubois, they're going to have to include one of their 2023 1st round picks.

It goes without saying that you build protection around that 1st round pick.

Doesn't seem like breaking news...but I guess we here now.

Habs are not giving a top 5 upcoming first pick for a guy that wants to go to Montreal and that Jets won't be able to keep.

That would incredibly dumb to do that because that draft is absolutely top notch. Dubois value is not worth that much. We are talking a second line player and not a player like Seider

 

[DailyKaizen]

Is that when he and Sakic butted heads? I don’t recall all the details but man did Sakic show a lot of fortitude by standing his ground under an onslaught of pressure.

Too right, I think, on balance he was smart with that ordeal given the circumstances, it's not about have the best cards at the table but playing the hand you were dealt well.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

If the Jets reneged on a deal to add more, that’s bush league stuff.

There is no way HuGo reneged on a deal. If they agree to a deal they are happy with the return and wouldn't change their mind even if a better offer came along. The most likely scenario is that Chevaldayoff saw Dubois and his 100 friends in the loge and thought he could get more out of HuGo because they wouldn't want to ruin the show. Of course if he did badly miscalculated because there is no way HuGo was going to up their offer.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

If they can make a deal that doesn't involve:
Slaf
Suzuki
Cole
Guhle
Habs 2023 1st
...
Then fine, do it. Otherwise it is stupid to lose valuable assets and IMPROVE on a critical draft year where we need another top pick.

There is absolutely no way that any of those assets are used in a Dubois trade. Look at Trouba trade. Wanted NYR only because her wife wanted to go to med school there.

They got absolutely nothing from it . Unless you think Pionk is worth anything.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

There are reports that the Jets want a player that Montreal doesn't want to give up, I haven't seen one that says the Jets suddenly asked for a player that Montreal said no to. If there is please link it. I'm just saying it's a theory - it could also be the Jets trying to exercise the little leverage they have as you suggest.

It's based off a podcast by Martin Leclerc where he said PLD was at the draft because he expected to be traded, and then corroborated by local Athletic articles. It's all in French.

When Montreal announced the Romanov/Dach trades on the draft floor, PLD expected his trade to be announced too, but obviously it didn't happen.

So it got close enough for PLD to be there for an announcement.

To add, that's what the discussion is about. PLD not only being at the draft but actually renting out a hotel room for friends & family.

And, now Brisson is trying to up the pressure in Montreal by stating over & over again how PLD only wants to be in Montreal so the French media goes into a frenzy. Brisson is trying to force Hughes hand.

 

[Natey]

Right. Vegas cap situation is the same as the Habs

What does that have to do with anything? He could have been traded anywhere for futures. They couldn't even get a 7th for him.

Anderson, if traded this offseason, will have cap coming back similar to Matheson. He's not getting traded for a haul.

He's almost 7% of the cap and scores far less than 0.5 points per game with the 2nd most even strength icetime per game over the past two seasons, to go with over 2 minutes per game of PP time.

And he throws less hits per 60 than Paul Byron.

So he skates fast, hits at a lower clip than Byron, scores like a 3rd liner, and plays defensively like an AHL player. And that's going to return a haul?

I have one thing to say about that.... I hope you're right.

 

[Adam Michaels]

There is absolutely no way that any of those assets are used in a Dubois trade. Look at Trouba trade. Wanted NYR only because her wife wanted to go to med school there.

They got absolutely nothing from it . Unless you think Pionk is worth anything.

That's exactly what I said. The PLD to Montreal rumor is similar to the Trouba to the Rangers rumor.

Trouba was an RFA also and only wanted to go to the Rangers. Like PLD now, Jets had no obligation to send Trouba to New York. But despite it all, they ended up trading him to the Rangers for Pionk + a 1st. Trouba was not going to sign with anyone else. So that worked in Trouba's favor because teams might not have been willing to give up more to get someone who had no intention of staying there.

 

[Habby4Life]

Caifield + Gallagher to Jets
Dubois + 1st 23 (unprotected) to Habs

PASS!!!

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

There is absolutely no way that any of those assets are used in a Dubois trade. Look at Trouba trade. Wanted NYR only because her wife wanted to go to med school there.

They got absolutely nothing from it . Unless you think Pionk is worth anything.

Pionk is worth something now and he is an adequate replacement for Trouba but he wasn't worth much at the time of the trade.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

That's exactly what I said. The PLD to Montreal rumor is similar to the Trouba to the Rangers rumor.

Trouba was an RFA also and only wanted to go to the Rangers. Like PLD now, Jets had no obligation to send Trouba to New York. But despite it all, they ended up trading him to the Rangers for Pionk + a 1st.

Here what would be my offer for PLD
Dvorak + 2nd 2023 + 2nd 2024 and Byron for cap.
Take or leave it or see you in 2 years Dubois.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

You're right. But I believe it was on Day 2.

I remember seeing that. I also saw Hughes go over to the New Jersey table and talk to Tom Fitzgerald. I still remember Brodeur's face looking at the two of them chatting and had that "WTF are these two idiots talking about?"

When you consider that Pens traded Marino to New Jersey before Habs traded Petry to Pens, it's possible Hughes was checking in with both Hextall and Fitzgerald to get some info if they plan to complete the Marino/Ty Smith deal since the Petry trade depended on that one being done.

I couldn't watch day 2. f***ing Rogers

 

[Sterling Archer]

Exactly. Hughes should walk away.

Or drop the gloves now and OS him.

 

[tbcwpg]

It's based off a podcast by Martin Leclerc where he said PLD was at the draft because he expected to be traded, and then corroborated by local Athletic articles. It's all in French.

When Montreal announced the Romanov/Dach trades on the draft floor, PLD expected his trade to be announced too, but obviously it didn't happen.

So it got close enough for PLD to be there for an announcement.

To add, that's what the discussion is about. PLD not only being at the draft but actually renting out a hotel room for friends & family.

And, now Brisson is trying to up the pressure in Montreal by stating over & over again how PLD only wants to be in Montreal so the French media goes into a frenzy. Brisson is trying to force Hughes hand.

Respectfully I don't see how a podcast and confirmed reports of him being at the draft, which are definitely true, lead to the Jets changed the deal. Either side could still have done that.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Here what would be my offer for PLD
Dvorak + 2nd 2023 + 2nd 2024 and Byron for cap.
Take or leave it or see you in 2 years Dubois.

If they reneged on a previous deal that's all I would offer. Otherwise I might go to a 2024 1st (top 3 protected) instead of the 2 2nd's.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

Habs are not giving a top 5 upcoming first pick for a guy that wants to go to Montreal and that Jets won't be able to keep.

That would incredibly dumb to do that because that draft is absolutely top notch. Dubois value is not worth that much. We are talking a second line player and not a player like Seider

Agreed - but if you're building protection into whichever pick you give them this year then you're opening the possibility of having to give up your 2024 1st.
Highly unlikely that the Panthers miss the playoffs but there's a wide range of possible value in trading that pick.
I'd personally rather give up something of known value than include either of the 1st round picks.
(I'd rather not trade for PLD at all right now but there is quite a bit of smoke out there.....)

 

[Adam Michaels]

Here what would be my offer for PLD
Dvorak + 2nd 2023 + 2nd 2024 and Byron for cap.
Take or leave it or see you in 2 years Dubois.

You also know who was the Rangers' GM in the Trouba situation? Jeff Motherf****n' Gorton!