HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[Harry Kakalovich]

We pick! Florida’s 1st.

Actually I think an offer sheet has to be the team's picks that signed the offer sheet

 

[26Mats]

I understand where your coming from. But my point is dedicating so much cap to just forwards means your a top heavy team. Our bottom two lines will end up shit. Our D past the top 2 will be shit. It's hard.

Look at what the Leaf's are having to do every year.

Yeah, you have to be careful who you give big money to.

Good thing is Suzuki, Caufield and Dubois will be in the 7-8M range, as opposed to the 10-11M range.

So I'm ok with Dubois in the 7-8M range. There is some risk. But there always is. If we land a better center than Dubois in the next few drafts, we can eith trade Dubois or move him to the wing. He brings size and much more physicality than Dach or Suzuki. And Dubois is only 1 year older than Suzuki. So he fits the window. And he's from here. Pretty good fit, imo.

 

[Destopcorner]

Thing is all his cheap contract years are gone. Even getting him now, guys are saying 7.5M for 8 years - that's a super hefty contract which would probably be immovable if PLD becomes a 45 point scorer or gets surpassed by another C and slides down the depth chart. Plus you probably have to pay pretty serious assets for the privilege to sign him to that albatross contract. And probably his best years will be done by 27ish and the Habs won't even be good until then.

Yeah players stop being good after 27... thanks for the laugh. With the salary cap going up, 7.5 will look like peanuts in 2 years for a prime PLD. And why tf would he ever become a 45pt player? You talk like he will regress like 7 fingers Gallagher but he's nothing like that. Having both your top 2 center locked 8 years for 15M is an absolute win in my book, much better than a 12million superstar ala Marner clogging the team cap structure.

 

[A Loyal Demidog]

We don't get to pick - it'd be ours which is a non-starter

Actually I think an offer sheet has to be the team's picks that signed the offer sheet

Really??? That truly sucks then!

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Suzuki is better but in the new nhl points are king and they’re both equal there
They’re both good players and pld is worth more than Dvorak norlinder and a 2nd

Value is relative. I wouldn't want to pay much for PLD at all. I don't think he's worth much to the Habs.

 

[Goldenhands]

Why don’t we just offer sheet PLD $6,302,230 for 2 years. This does 1 of 2 things: we get Dubois for FLA’s 1st and a 3rd round pick, or Jets keep Dubois till UFA. Win-win for us.

Obviously, we better sign all our RFAs ASAP in coming years lol. Sign Dach before making the offer sheet too lol!

Offersheeting is a kiss of the dead for a GM. Bergevin lost all respect from other GMs after the Aho one and it came back to kill him after that GMs are already struggling with the cap, the last thing they want is a bidding war on RFAs.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Do we get to pick which 1st round pick we lose? Or does it have to be Montreal's actual pick

It has to be Mtl's pick

Offersheeting is a kiss of the dead for a GM. Bergevin lost all respect from other GMs after the Aho one and it came back to kill him after that GMs are already struggling with the cap, the last thing they want is a bidding war on RFAs.

If MB lost respect of other GM's it had nothing to do with the offer sheet. Only Waddell would care.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I could be wrong but I thought his QO was based on last year's salary (6.65M) not his contract AAV?

It's very possible. I wasn't sure if it's AAV or actual salary. I do know his QO is 100% of it, though. So it's not a raise like those who made less than 1M.

Why don’t we just offer sheet PLD $6,302,230 for 2 years. This does 1 of 2 things: we get Dubois for FLA’s 1st and a 3rd round pick, or Jets keep Dubois till UFA. Win-win for us.

Obviously, we better sign all our RFAs ASAP in coming years lol. Sign Dach before making the offer sheet too lol!

The picks you give up in an offer sheet are your own.

Florida's pick would not be affected. It would be the Habs pick that would.

 

[A Loyal Demidog]

Offersheeting is a kiss of the dead for a GM. Bergevin lost all respect from other GMs after the Aho one and it came back to kill him after that GMs are already struggling with the cap, the last thing they want is a bidding war on RFAs.

Bergevin should have gotten thank you’s from Carolina for offering a more than reasonable extension to Aho! His offer sheet reeked of helping his ex-employee have an early summer.

 

[Archijerej]

Suzuki made Dubois his bitch last year in the playoffs. Suzuki is a vastly better player, isn't quitting on his team twice, and is younger. If you want a comparable look at what Jacob Trouba got since it's a similar scenario.

Not sure why you believe every first-rounder is worth the same, but good for you.

Let me make it even more clear for you since you are struggling a lot with this.

OFFER 1: Dubois for Dvorak, Byron, FLA 1st 2023 (unprotected), and a prospect not named Guhle/Slaf/Mesar.

You already acknowledged that this offer includes 3 1sts.

OFFER 2: Dubois for Dach, Hoffman, FLA 1st 2023 (unprotected), and a prospect not in your top 8.

Dach JUST got traded for the 13th OA+. He's clearly worth more than Dvorak despite where he was drafted 3 years ago. That's an actual fact given Dvorak's return.

So there is a considerable difference between Dach (i.e 13th OA) and Dvorak (i.e 27th OA). So the "1st round value" is not similar at all just like how the value between a prospect like Barron is not the same as a prospect not in our top 8...

Also what happened to not getting agitated?

I've never doubted in your ability to make this even more complicated.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

It's very possible. I wasn't sure if it's AAV or actual salary. I do know his QO is 100% of it, though. So it's not a raise like those who made less than 1M.



The picks you give up in an offer sheet are your own.

Florida's pick would not be affected. It would be the Habs pick that would.

Fairly certain it's actual salary of the last year - I remember Matthew Tkachuk's recent contract being a big deal as it was a 3 year deal with a 5/7/9M breakdown that will force a minimum 9M QO for Calgary now

 

[Bomatane]

If Jets want that kind of package, they are not out of the "Woods" (sortis "Dubois") ... ha! ha!

 

[A Loyal Demidog]

The picks you give up in an offer sheet are your own.

Florida's pick would not be affected. It would be the Habs pick that would.

Nevermind! Never trading our 1st for anyone outside of McDavid lol.

 

[Saundies]

...Dubois is not what this team needs right now nor is it where we should be looking...we're not going to be a competitive team and PLD will cost good young assets that we've collected over the last couple of seasons that are just the right age and just the right players for when we will (hopefully) start becoming competitive again...if he wants in two years from now, great sign here...unless Chevy wants to get fleeced in another trade by sending PLD here for our aging players who won't be part of the core here soon, HuGo should take the hands-off approach to Dubois...or it's a Bargain Bin move all over again...

You’re acting like PLD is 28-29. He’s not, he’s a proven young asset down the middle. The fact that we’re just like “nah” makes no sense to me whatsoever. He has plenty of room to hit his prime and gore with the core

He’s not going to make us a playoff team or completely ruin the tank.

 

[Destopcorner]

...every player can be effective in their favored matchups, that means next to nothing...and I watch alot of Jets games, Dubois is not a "great" defensive player or even a "good" one, imo; he's average and inconsistent...as @Harry Kakalovich pointed out, he doesn't play PK and I imagine that's for a reason...

If you can contain Matthews at 21, you can do it against anyone anytime. Keep on hating, yall know our local boy is coming home and there is nothing you can do about it. Hugo is all brain and knows this team needs PLD so whatever you guys wine about, thank god management think differently.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

Fairly certain it's actual salary of the last year - I remember Matthew Tkachuk's recent contract being a big deal as it was a 3 year deal with a 5/7/9M breakdown that will force a minimum 9M QO for Calgary now

Did a little more digging - as of the 2020 CBA the Qualifying Offer will be 100% of the final year's salary to a maximum of 120% of the AAV (6M in Dubois's case)

Key Salary Cap Changes in new CBA | Puckpedia

The NHLPA and NHL voted to ratify the terms of the Memorandum of Understanding for a 4-year extension of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. You can find the full MOU HERE. While many of the key terms have been widely reported, there are a few interesting changes that have not been as widely...

puckpedia.com

 

[Tetragrammaton]

It is a high price to pay but it frees up money to sign PLD long term immediately, let's say same contract as Suzuki. He could get more in 2 years.

As for PLD vs Dach, it's more or less the same gamble as #13 vs Dach. But, to be honest, I'm not sure I would trade 2 NHL centers for PLD. That's not exactly the trade I'd be willing to make. I'd rather keep one of them as 3rd C.

In the end, the price for the trade will likely go down a bit while Petry may not go up.

If it does come to a right price, I would do the trade. Winnipeg probably needs players signed long term (+ prospects) so they don't want to leave in 2 years.

I would offer Dvorak and Anderson for PLD extended at a minimum of 6 years. I wouldn’t offer any futures. Even this would be a big mistake for us right now, we should be looking at drafting top 3 again next season.

I don’t see any teams offering up much because they know he is coming to MTL. Maybe at the trade deadline on his last year they could get a contender to bite on him.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Yeah players stop being good after 27... thanks for the laugh. With the salary cap going up, 7.5 will look like peanuts in 2 years for a prime PLD. And why tf would he ever become a 45pt player? You talk like he will regress like 7 fingers Gallagher but he's nothing like that. Having both your top 2 center locked 8 years for 15M is an absolute win in my book, much better than a 12million superstar ala Marner clogging the team cap structure.

Statistically forwards peak at 24 and their prime is 24-28. I don't think the Habs will be seriously competitive for a few years. It doesn't seem like a good fit to me. I'd rather pass on PLD.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I would offer Dvorak and Anderson for PLD extended at a minimum of 6 years. I wouldn’t offer any futures.

Why does he need to be extended already ?

Also, not sure why people are so quick to deal Andy. You're going to notice him missing. Dvorak, too, but we can't send them bums.

It's gotta be a combination of right now players, tomorrow players and next week players.

So, NHL, prospect and draft pick(s)

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Why does he need to be extended already ?

Also, not sure why people are so quick to deal Andy. You're going to notice him missing. Dvorak, too, but we can't send them bums.

It's gotta be a combination of right now players, tomorrow players and next week players.

So, NHL, prospect and draft pick(s)

Nahh hard pass. I don’t even wanna give up Dvorak and Anderson.. but maybe I could live with it. No prospects or futures, we need them.

He would have to come extended and on a good cap hit for me to even consider trading for him.

At the end of the day, giving up anything for him is probably the wrong move right now. I think patience is our best option here. He will be ours for free, things like this rarely happen to us, we should just let him fall right into our lap.

 

[ArtPeur]

I would offer Dvorak and Anderson for PLD extended at a minimum of 6 years. I wouldn’t offer any futures. Even this would be a big mistake for us right now, we should be looking at drafting top 3 again next season.

I don’t see any teams offering up much because they know he is coming to MTL. Maybe at the trade deadline on his last year they could get a contender to bite on him.

I'm not sure why you say it would be a big mistake. We're not looking to compete anyway. The proposal you're making would still set us at center for years though. We can ride Suzuki/PLD/Dach/Evans and be really fine. If we draft another C in 2023, that guy could replace Dach or someone else in 5 years. To some extent, it's worth a shot. It still depends on the price to pay. I know I've said I was willing to add Florida's pick in the past but I might switch to our 2nd round.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

I'm not sure why you say it would be a big mistake. We're not looking to compete anyway. The proposal you're making would still set us at center for years though. We can ride Suzuki/PLD/Dach/Evans and be really fine. If we draft another C in 2023, that guy could replace Dach or someone else in 5 years. To some extent, it's worth a shot. It still depends on the price to pay. I know I've said I was willing to add Florida's pick in the past but I might switch to our 2nd round.

Alright, I could get onboard with it, as long as management makes sure we still finish at the bottom next season.. we need that top 3 pick or at least top 5. So at the minimum Petry would also need to go to guarantee that our defence sucks.

 

[JoelWarlord]

The whole "we can just get him for free in 2 years" thing sounds really silly to me. There are few things more expensive in the NHL than the contract needed to secure a "free" 26 year old top-six C with size as a UFA. The other thing to me is any trade would have to include Dvorak, and if upgrading from Dvorak to Dubois is enough to ruin our tank, we should be willing to pay a huge price for Dubois he'd have to be a top 20 player in the league to have that kind of impact.

Even if we have 100% certainty he would sign with Montreal in two years, what do you think the price is going to be when he's a UFA at the exact time Boston has a glaring hole at C, Kopitar is expiring, etc. I realize we could also walk away too but that gets tricky in the event Dach doesn't pan out and you're in a situation where prospects have developed and the team is ready to go but needs a 2C.

Johnny Gaudreau is a Columbus Blue Jacket, a lot of things can change in 2 years.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

The notion that the habs tank for next season will be ruined if they acquire Dubois is wrong.

From last year's roster, we lost: Romanov, Chiarot, Lehkonen, Toffoli, Dvorak (dubois trade), maybe Petry, maybe Price

For this year's roster, we added Dach, Dadonov, Dubois, maybe Slaf

That team still looks worse on paper despite acquiring Dubois. The defence especially will be very bad.

 

[Adriatic]

What an awesome pool day!! Has the PLD trade been announced yet??