HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[Andy]

I don’t know how folks can be hockey fans and not be able to see that Anderson is the exact type of player teams overpay for

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I agree. That tells a lot about NHL GMs.


His next RFA deal won't. Given what he can be - a safe bet for an all-rounded 2C - it would take something so dumb to bring him to negative value. We can't know what the future holds, though, so making predictions about his UFA deal is largely a waste of time.

For reference: I consider a player to have negative value when they are easily replaceable at a significantly lower cost. There might be Dubois replacements on offer, but certainly not at something like 5 AAV.

Then your take on Anderson is ridiculous. There are very few players like him. That is why GM's are after him even though he is not a complete player and has below average hockey sense.

 

[The Great Weal]

No.

Our guest from Winnipeg has proposed Dach + FLA 1st + cap dump + a prospect outside our top-8.

That's not the equivalent of 3 1sts.

You’re wrong, he proposed 2 trades if you reread what the poster said. Dvorak is worth a 1st, he wants an unprotected 1st for next year, and a prospect not named Slaf/Guhle/Mesar. A guy like Barron is worth a late 1st so that makes it 3 1sts.

As for the Dach trade, the 13th OA+2nd rounder prospect is essentially 2 late 1sts. So that’s also 3 1sts.

 

[Archijerej]

Then your take on Anderson is ridiculous.

His take on Anderson is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, because he expressed no desire to acquire that player in his trade proposals.

Why start an argument over it?

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I agree. That tells a lot about NHL GMs.


His next RFA deal won't. Given what he can be - a safe bet for an all-rounded 2C - it would take something so dumb to bring him to negative value. We can't know what the future holds, though, so making predictions about his UFA deal is largely a waste of time.

For reference: I consider a player to have negative value when they are easily replaceable at a significantly lower cost. There might be Dubois replacements on offer, but certainly not at something like 5 AAV.

But will he sign at 5M? I thought he would want more than that. I think PLD is already a cap dump TBH. He won't be worth his next contract.

 

[Archijerej]

You’re wrong, he proposed 2 trades if you reread what the poster said. Dvorak is worth a 1st, he wants an unprotected 1st for next year, and a prospect not named Slaf/Guhle/Mesar. A guy like Barron is worth a late 1st so that makes it 3 1sts.

As for the Dach trade, the 13th OA+2nd rounder prospect is essentially 2 late 1sts.

So, of the two proposals you pick the one that doesn't involve the 3 1sts.

There is really no reason to get agitated over an non-issue.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

There's nothing that says he will be really available for free in 2 years. Nothing. Montreal may have moved on from getting him and have no cap space available. He might have signed a multi-year deal somewhere else too.

I’m going off of the “fact” or “rumour” that he only wants to sign long term with the Habs.

Also Dach + Anderson + Dvorak would be a ridiculously high price to pay for PLD in the first place, makes no sense.

We don’t need PLD and we certainly don’t need to give up any assets for him. Dach might end up becoming the superior centerman.

We’re better off just staying the course and letting him fall to us for free if the stars line up for us in 2 years.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

What about a Dvorak for Alexandre Texier type trade?

If Petry goes to LA I'm thinking Matt Roy would be a real solid piece to bring back - LA probably want to keep him but Matt Roy will be a solid RHD for the next 5-6 years I think.

 

[Jack Skellington]

If they want Barron they can have him and Dvorak and that's it

 

[The Great Weal]

So, of the two proposals you pick the one that doesn't involve the 3 1sts.

There is really no reason to get agitated over an non-issue.

Lmao I talked about both proposals. It is a ridiculous asking price for Dubois and I like the player. Dvorak+2nd+Norlinder is pretty much the max I would do.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I’m going off of the “fact” or “rumour” that he only wants to sign long term with the Habs.

Also Dach + Anderson + Dvorak would be a ridiculously high price to pay for PLD in the first place, makes no sense.

We don’t need PLD and we certainly don’t need to give up any assets for him. Dach might end up becoming the superior centerman.

We’re better off just staying the course and letting him fall to us for free if the stars line up for us in 2 years.

I think Hughes made his decision when he traded for Dach. It doesn't make much sense to get Dach only to bury him in the exact same position as he was in on Chicago.

 

[Barriwhite]

His take on Anderson is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, because he expressed no desire to acquire that player in his trade proposals.

Why start an argument over it?

Did PLD and Anderson play on a line together when CBJ swept TB 3 years ago? If the Jets see things his way and don’t want Anderson, that’s fine with me.

 

[Adam Michaels]

After everything you posted, Barron is a no go for you?

Does that suggest that Barron will be some kind of top pair powerhouse or something? Because ya, if he is a can't miss top pair dman then I would be reluctant to make the trade. But we've signed UFA guys to spot fill top four roles and they did admirable jobs ie Edmundson, Chiarot.

If Barron is a 3/4 dman RD, I just think we can fill that hole for cheaper than the cost of losing out on PLD.

Money has to go back, so one of Anderson/Dvorak makes sense as they are useful for their contracts. Even a guy like Dadonov possibly because Peg could use him for playoffs or flip him at deadline for more assets. That helps out money and roster spots.

But then you enter the 1st Fla 2023 and a prospect. If the package is Dvorak, Dadonov/Armia, 1st Fla 2023, prospect...I'm willing to let that prospect be Barron. Obviously I'd prefer it to be a forward like Roy or Kidney but Peg should have their choice of anyone not named (speaking strictly of prospects): Guhle and Slaf,

Barron has the tools to be a Top-4 D. The fact he's an RD makes him crucial to the Habs right now. The Habs only have two right shooting prospects who have the potential to be the 1RD/2RD, and that's Mailloux and Barron.

I'd be reluctant to involve him in a trade. Considering the Habs targeted him for a reason in the Lehkonen deal.

There are players/prospects I'd be more reluctant to trade than Barron, but he's up there as a guy I'd be unsure to trade.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

His take on Anderson is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, because he expressed no desire to acquire that player in his trade proposals.

Why start an argument over it?

Because he used the same basis to evaluate Dubois.

 

[The Nightman]

I feel it’s not even worth discussing Anderson as part of a PLD deal. In classic MB fashion he gave up term, cap hit and tossed in a NTC for good measure when signing Anderson.

8 team no trade list, hard to imagine Winnipeg wouldn’t be one of those 8 teams.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

This is insanity

Why lose Dach, Dvorak, Anderson when we can get Dubois FOR FREE with some patience?

Those 3 are worth 3 first round picks + 3 prospects at the minimum!

You claim insanity in response to a post where I said clearly that it doesn't make sense considering our timeline and that I personally wouldn't do it. I was talking strictly from a value standpoint. Read the post first before being outraged. I might also add that quantity does not equal quality; I doubt Anderson and Dvorak can fetch more than a first round pick each and Dach's value is going to depend on how this year goes. It's a make or break year.

 

[Maukkis]

This is an excellent post. There are minor points I would take issue with, but they are not worth mentioning here. The trade you proposed, based around Dach, is the one I would make instantly. It solidifies our center line long-term, doesn't cost us any of our young core players/prospects (aside from Dach, of course) and does not disrupt the rebuilding of our D. We get rid of Hoffman's cap hit on top of that.

Meanwhile, Jets receive a potential top 6 center to replace Dubois, as well as a solid sweetener in future assets to mitigate the risk and as a compensation for helping the Habs to shed a cap hit.

Nicely done!

Thank you. I would personally take the first deal, because Dvorak is a better fit in our timeline over the next couple of years. I'm not so sure that the second one would ever be entertained, but I could also live with that deal. The problem with the Dach deal is that it does not give you cap relief in 24/25, but I don't think it can be arranged without taking this discussion to prospects that we need not bring up.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

You claim insanity in response to a post where I said clearly that it doesn't make sense considering our timeline and that I personally wouldn't do it. I was talking strictly from a value standpoint. Read the post first before being outraged. I might also add that quantity does not equal quality; I doubt Anderson and Dvorak can fetch more than a first round pick each and Dach's value is going to depend on how this year goes. It's a make or break year.

I doubt this is a make or break year for Dach. For example Troy Terry and Tage Thompson didn't look like NHL players until they were 24.

 

[Archijerej]

Lmao I talked about both proposals. It is a ridiculous asking price for Dubois and I like the player.

Yeah, I've only noticed now that, for whatever reason, you've equaled Dach (a 1st rounder) and a non-1st round prospect to two 1st rounders, based on on the pick number we've traded for Dach (13 OA). I'm not sure why would you do that, but good for you.

Should I assign the value of Dubois as "two late 1sts" based on the fact he was picked 3OA and add another 1st to account for the fact that he's a proven top-6C? See? 3 firsts!

What does the fact that Dubois was traded for Laine and Roslovic is worth? Maybe another 1st pick shold be added to his "value"?

Dvorak+2nd+Norlinder is pretty much the max I would do.

I already understand that you want nothing to do with this player.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Unless it is buying low on Dubois, no way you look at trading for him this season before you know what you are drafting with the 2 first round picks next year. You could be looking at a franchise center, with Suzuki slotting in at the #2. What do you do with Dubois then?

All the pressure is on Winnipeg, What value will they get to trade Dubois in his final year when the acquiring team is not guaranteed of signing him? Essentially he is a rental and they will get offered rental prices for him a 1st and maybe a prospect.

Even if I don't want him, the most I offer up is the '24 1st rounder top 10 protected a prospect like Mysak and a cap dump like Hoffman.

 

[sampollock]

But now a Winnipeg journalist, Murat Ates, who works for The Athletic, adds a layer and argues that the general manager of the Jets, Kevin Cheveldayoff, is in a very ordinary position to negotiate the rights of his striker.

“The major negotiating lever for Kent Hughes here, and which plays in favor of the Canadians, is that Pierre-Luc Dubois has just made it all extremely clear: he intends to sign with CH in two years. The return that the Jets could receive in a trade, with a team other than Montreal is therefore affected by this. (They know he will still end up in Montreal in 2024).

“Multiple very reliable sources have confirmed to The Athletic that wearing the Bleu-Blanc-Rouge uniform is a dream for Dubois and he is not shy to talk about it openly.

"I think that at a certain point, whether it's this summer or next, or even in two years, when he will be an unrestricted free agent, it seems inevitable at that point if you ask me if Pierre-Luc Dubois will be a Montreal Canadiens one day. - Murat Ates

 

[417]

I don’t know how folks can be hockey fans and not be able to see that Anderson is the exact type of player teams overpay for

It's even more shocking when you see Habs fans, in the middle of a rebuild, be so willing to include him as a throw-in when discussing trades.

 

[jaffy27]

That Florida 1st goes nowhere. At the very least it may help to move us up in 2023.

I would be fine including Dach in a package, say with Anderson.

Dach is staying…..they didn’t acquire him to trade him…..might as well send Romanov and the picks they gave up plus Dvorak and a Kidney/Norlinder type prospect for Dubois.

Of course this is IMHO

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

PLD is a cap dump reclamation project. He's the next Max Domi. Max Domi 2.0

 

[Archijerej]

Because he used the same basis to evaluate Dubois.

No, he didn't.