HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[Harry Kakalovich]

PLD has taken over this thread. Hopefully KH does the now unexpected and dumps vet salaries for picks and prospects...

 

[BaseballCoach]

I didn't. I don't view Anderson nor Dvorak as holding tremendous value, nor do I envision Dach as being anywhere close to PLD in the future. So yeah, trading two average roster players and a prospect who's struggled for 3 years isn't that steep of an asking price. You're overrating our assets and undervaluing PLD's value. There is a thin chance Dach will amount to anything close to PLD and based on his FO percentages, he might not be a center either. I probably wouldn't do the trade because it doesn't make sense considering our timeline, but it wouldn't be for reasons that the asking price would be too steep (assuming they want Dach, Anderson and Dvorak).

Just focusing on Dach, I evaluate him as the 10th best player of the 2019 draft (obviously not 3rd at this point). Dubois is the 10th best player of the 2016 draft. Dach has two more years of control. Neither may be best suited to be a center but could still be valuable.

As an aside, using this standard is why I would not trade GUhle for Duboism as I see Guhle as about #8-10 from 2020 with 7 years of control.

I agree that if Winnipeg does not see Dach as intriguing no deal with him as centerpiece works. I've posted elsewhere about what I think we could add to Dach, and it's not Anderson and Dvorak, but I don't want to repeat myself here.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

A Jets fan here, who has more or less lost his entire trust in the Jets' front office. No ill will, no bad intentions, just a bunch of opinions that I have come up with about this Dubois debacle.

I reckon that if a Dubois to MTL is to happen, it happens this summer - or it does not happen at all. Reasons?

1) No matter what, Dubois will play next year. As a 24-year-old, holding out to strong arm the Jets does not get him closer to UFA. Holding out would waste him a lot of money, possible even more in the long term. Further, I'd assume that the Jets have to get comfortable with the risk of Dubois pulling of his previous stunts again with us, because to get value for him from anyone, he has to either be traded now or to play ball before UFA. Thus, both sides are motivated to get a decision made sooner rather than later.

2) The Jets are in a position where waiting around is not an option. Hellebuyck has two years left on his deal, and contrary to (what seems to be) the consensus around HFJets, the team will enter a full-blown freefall immediately after he departs for a competitive organisation in July 2024. If this is to be prevented, we need to have a coherent, concrete, and believable vision on offer to Hellebuyck and our other UFAs in 2023/24. Having Dubois around is unlikely to help, if it brings uncertainty and instability with it.

3) GM Hughes is and will be under immense pressure to fix one of your worst long-term problems: your cap structure. Between Anderson, Gallagher, Armia, and Dvorak, there is almost 19 million of long-term cap space wasted and severely hindering the rebuild. None of those four represent good value for the money spent, nor do they really fit in with your plans for the future. Add in the much more valuable Evans, Suzuki, and a rough estimation of Caufield's next deal, and you have around 32-35 million of cap allocated towards what still is a rather mediocre group of seven forwards. That is a f***ing lot. And since all of that cap will be in the books when Dubois becomes a UFA, what do you think are the chances of fitting his large UFA deal in there (which he will go for, given that it might be his only chance of getting one)? What do those chances look like after factoring in the potentially enormous paydays of Slafkovsky and Dach? Please note that none of this takes into considerations the back end of the Habs, which... well, is also less than ideal. I'm sure some of you have noticed the problem: you might well think that Dubois wants to come to MTL anyway (and you would be right), but in two years' time, you might not have the option of getting him for free.

Is this to say that you should overpay now to not lose an asset that you don't have? Absolutely not. But if the Habs start planning around Dubois two years before he comes there, a lot can go wrong in that time. It could result in passing on a really good UFA deal next year to preserve cap space for July 2024. It could mean a bridge deal to Caufield, when a long-term deal could be reached instead. It could mean an increasing pressure to make moves under the gun, because Dubois' plan to go to Montréal is already telegraphed to anyone who cares to pay attention. That is also why I predict that the Habs will pass on Dubois if an agreement is not reached this year: Hughes seems smart enough not to allocate his assets on the basis of a promise that someone will come to play for him in two years. You don't even know which level of Dubois you'll get, so it would be foolish to even attempt making your own plans work around him. I would be livid if Cheveldayoff did that, but then again, I'm livid that he still has a job with the Jets anyway.

4) Finally, I would imagine that both GMs would want to find some kind of peace regarding this situation. The reasons are vastly different, but the pressure from fans, ownership, and media will remain strong regardless.

OK, on to the details of the deal, which we have now established is going to happen. Assuming that the Jets are only dealing Dubois here, I think the following can be stated:

- the Habs are not dealing Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, their own 1sts, or Mesar. Should be obvious to all.
- all players with trade protection are blocking any deal to Winnipeg, meaning that Petry, Edmundson, Anderson, Gallagher, and Dadonov are not in the deal either. Also, the first four are absolute non-starters anyway.

Given what I said above, you need to dump long-term cap to alleviate your future cap issues, and we need to have a semi-competitive roster in place next year. Unfortunately, we have no need, place, room or anything of the like for defensemen on expensive contracts (we have plenty of our own, trust me). Thus, the acceptable cap "dumps" are Dvorak and Hoffman, both of which are very usable at the NHL level. Dvorak makes the most sense as a C, but I would be open to taking on Hoffman (as well) to facilitate a deal. Note that I don't consider Evans as an option here, because that cap hit hardly needs to be offloaded, and Armia's third year with diminishing on-ice results is a non-starter without a serious incentive coming with him (meaning Guhle). Then, futures need to be included to bridge the gap, which depend on whether Hoffman or Byron are included. The more of your cap changes hands, the better the prospect going with them. I have this in mind as a baseline:

Dubois for Dvorak, Byron, FLA 1st 2023 (unprotected), and a prospect not named Guhle/Slaf/Mesar.

As some of you have cleverly noted, the first rounder has to be unprotected, because the protection could end up putting your own 1st in '24 to play, which I'm sure you would find unpleasant as hell. I don't think the Jets can pull off Guhle (especially with how unimpressive your D corps looks for the present and for the future), but the other prospects should be attainable.

What if Dach is in the mix, which I personally find unlikely? I would imagine it can be done: perhaps like this?

Dubois for Dach, Hoffman, FLA 1st 2023 (unprotected), and a prospect not in your top 8?

Hoffman needs to be in the deal now to dump more dollars, since I find it unlikely that you would give up both Dvorak and Dach. Since Dach is likely worth more that Dvorak, the prospect in question should be quite a bit worse than in the first proposal.

Both deals are reasonable: the Habs are not giving up indispensable pieces from the pool of assets that will one day form their core, and the cap implications are at least relatively stable in the next two years. The Jets are not subjected to cap implications longer than what they would pay for Dubois, and get a package of future assets that they could get from any team looking for a top rental next year.

I think these are very reasonable proposals honestly, I'd do it.

 

[Tyson]

Dubois is a good player with good upside. He size and skill are needed.
Sadly over the next couple of years we won't be able to rid ourselves of the countless rumors of whether or when we will have Dubois wearing Habs colors.

 

[Gandalf The Habs Fan]

A Jets fan here, who has more or less lost his entire trust in the Jets' front office. No ill will, no bad intentions, just a bunch of opinions that I have come up with about this Dubois debacle.

I reckon that if a Dubois to MTL is to happen, it happens this summer - or it does not happen at all. Reasons?

1) No matter what, Dubois will play next year. As a 24-year-old, holding out to strong arm the Jets does not get him closer to UFA. Holding out would waste him a lot of money, possible even more in the long term. Further, I'd assume that the Jets have to get comfortable with the risk of Dubois pulling of his previous stunts again with us, because to get value for him from anyone, he has to either be traded now or to play ball before UFA. Thus, both sides are motivated to get a decision made sooner rather than later.

2) The Jets are in a position where waiting around is not an option. Hellebuyck has two years left on his deal, and contrary to (what seems to be) the consensus around HFJets, the team will enter a full-blown freefall immediately after he departs for a competitive organisation in July 2024. If this is to be prevented, we need to have a coherent, concrete, and believable vision on offer to Hellebuyck and our other UFAs in 2023/24. Having Dubois around is unlikely to help, if it brings uncertainty and instability with it.

3) GM Hughes is and will be under immense pressure to fix one of your worst long-term problems: your cap structure. Between Anderson, Gallagher, Armia, and Dvorak, there is almost 19 million of long-term cap space wasted and severely hindering the rebuild. None of those four represent good value for the money spent, nor do they really fit in with your plans for the future. Add in the much more valuable Evans, Suzuki, and a rough estimation of Caufield's next deal, and you have around 32-35 million of cap allocated towards what still is a rather mediocre group of seven forwards. That is a f***ing lot. And since all of that cap will be in the books when Dubois becomes a UFA, what do you think are the chances of fitting his large UFA deal in there (which he will go for, given that it might be his only chance of getting one)? What do those chances look like after factoring in the potentially enormous paydays of Slafkovsky and Dach? Please note that none of this takes into considerations the back end of the Habs, which... well, is also less than ideal. I'm sure some of you have noticed the problem: you might well think that Dubois wants to come to MTL anyway (and you would be right), but in two years' time, you might not have the option of getting him for free.

Is this to say that you should overpay now to not lose an asset that you don't have? Absolutely not. But if the Habs start planning around Dubois two years before he comes there, a lot can go wrong in that time. It could result in passing on a really good UFA deal next year to preserve cap space for July 2024. It could mean a bridge deal to Caufield, when a long-term deal could be reached instead. It could mean an increasing pressure to make moves under the gun, because Dubois' plan to go to Montréal is already telegraphed to anyone who cares to pay attention. That is also why I predict that the Habs will pass on Dubois if an agreement is not reached this year: Hughes seems smart enough not to allocate his assets on the basis of a promise that someone will come to play for him in two years. You don't even know which level of Dubois you'll get, so it would be foolish to even attempt making your own plans work around him. I would be livid if Cheveldayoff did that, but then again, I'm livid that he still has a job with the Jets anyway.

4) Finally, I would imagine that both GMs would want to find some kind of peace regarding this situation. The reasons are vastly different, but the pressure from fans, ownership, and media will remain strong regardless.

OK, on to the details of the deal, which we have now established is going to happen. Assuming that the Jets are only dealing Dubois here, I think the following can be stated:

- the Habs are not dealing Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, their own 1sts, or Mesar. Should be obvious to all.
- all players with trade protection are blocking any deal to Winnipeg, meaning that Petry, Edmundson, Anderson, Gallagher, and Dadonov are not in the deal either. Also, the first four are absolute non-starters anyway.

Given what I said above, you need to dump long-term cap to alleviate your future cap issues, and we need to have a semi-competitive roster in place next year. Unfortunately, we have no need, place, room or anything of the like for defensemen on expensive contracts (we have plenty of our own, trust me). Thus, the acceptable cap "dumps" are Dvorak and Hoffman, both of which are very usable at the NHL level. Dvorak makes the most sense as a C, but I would be open to taking on Hoffman (as well) to facilitate a deal. Note that I don't consider Evans as an option here, because that cap hit hardly needs to be offloaded, and Armia's third year with diminishing on-ice results is a non-starter without a serious incentive coming with him (meaning Guhle). Then, futures need to be included to bridge the gap, which depend on whether Hoffman or Byron are included. The more of your cap changes hands, the better the prospect going with them. I have this in mind as a baseline:

Dubois for Dvorak, Byron, FLA 1st 2023 (unprotected), and a prospect not named Guhle/Slaf/Mesar.

As some of you have cleverly noted, the first rounder has to be unprotected, because the protection could end up putting your own 1st in '24 to play, which I'm sure you would find unpleasant as hell. I don't think the Jets can pull off Guhle (especially with how unimpressive your D corps looks for the present and for the future), but the other prospects should be attainable.

What if Dach is in the mix, which I personally find unlikely? I would imagine it can be done: perhaps like this?

Dubois for Dach, Hoffman, FLA 1st 2023 (unprotected), and a prospect not in your top 8?

Hoffman needs to be in the deal now to dump more dollars, since I find it unlikely that you would give up both Dvorak and Dach. Since Dach is likely worth more that Dvorak, the prospect in question should be quite a bit worse than in the first proposal.

Both deals are reasonable: the Habs are not giving up indispensable pieces from the pool of assets that will one day form their core, and the cap implications are at least relatively stable in the next two years. The Jets are not subjected to cap implications longer than what they would pay for Dubois, and get a package of future assets that they could get from any team looking for a top rental next year.

In my opinion there is clearly a fair deal that can be worked on. No overpayment and no underpayment. The Florida 1st has to be included. Dvorak has good value (2C-3C at good cap hit). He is still worth what the habs paid for. A valuable prospect that could be a steal (ex Harris/Farrell/Mailloux/Barron). Another player for cap reason and maybe a 3rd/4th/5th pick.

 

[Maukkis]

Would you do a hybrid? Dvorak, Hoffman, the worst of ours or Fla first. Similar to Arizona trade last year. Just in case Florida slides and wins lottery. Plus a prospect not in our top 8?

I wouldn't accept a deal where we take on your long-term cap, even if the player in question is a good one like Dvorak, without getting a shot at a premium asset. Florida is really, really unlikely to be bad enough to end up in the lottery, so that prospect needs to be someone like Barron or Mysak for some certainty.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Dubois for Dvorak, Byron, FLA 1st 2023 (unprotected), and a prospect not named Guhle/Slaf/Mesar.

Dubois for Dach, Hoffman, FLA 1st 2023 (unprotected), and a prospect not in your top 8?

I wouldn't do either of those. In the 2nd one Dach seems to be worth next to nothing.

I doubt it's a 4 to 1 trade - I think you take out the FLA 1st in both deals, and still I wouldn't do the second one.

 

[CHarlie]

I personally dont want to give up anything for PLD......I would rather keep my assets and gain more assets.....PLD can go play somewhere else.....If Hughes is forced to aquire PLD he is no better than Bergevin

 

[BaseballCoach]

Dubois is a decent 2C who can't win face offs. Five years in, his production has been just okay. I expect Suzuki to keep progressing in production , but question if PLD does. We actually would have been better off keeping Danault given his face off success , top tier defensive play, than trading for PLD with similar production to Danault.

I go back and forth here. But I think we are better off without getting PLD because of what we likely have to give up for him. I would rather save the assets for next year and especially the 2023 draft. draft.

Your second point is important as it is asset management which is foundational to success. The decision would have to be made with actual alternatives and not just any of us assuming they will be good or bad before hearing them.

Your first point is even more telling. ABSOLUTELY we should have kept Danault instead of Gallagher and we would have been at least FOUR, possible five, steps ahead of where we are now. These are the type of decisions that make or break a franchise, not "winning" a Torrey Mitchell trade, or grabbing a Rem Pitlick off the scrap heap.

The Combination of player evaluation, asset management and clear vision is what leads to success, and our new management team appears to have many times more of it than our old team. There is good reason to hope.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Dubois is a good player with good upside. He size and skill are needed.
Sadly over the next couple of years we won't be able to rid ourselves of the countless rumors of whether or when we will have Dubois wearing Habs colors.

Yeah he's worse than Vinny Lecavalier was...

I doubt PLD will have a good contract once he's signed. As soon as pen goes to paper he'll start looking more like a cap dump that the fans of whatever team has him will be eager to trade.

 

[Kaladin]

Do you realize how ideal it is to have three core pieces locked up long term for 7-8mil? These aren’t the jumbo contracts that are limiting Edmonton or Toronto. These are tradable contracts that are very easy to build around. The cap will continue to increase and it will become less and less of a concern as we near our competitive window.

If you want to build a roster that can compete with every team year in and year out, getting a core group of forwards (4) signed to this level of contract is pretty attractive. It allows you to fill holes without being too top heavy, it allows you to put money into defence and goaltending. We’ll have to keep an eye out for Slaf and the 2023 pick if it’s any good, but I’d rather be spoiled by riches and have to trade one than pinch pennies in case it might happen.

In my view it's not really ideal because it's money poured exclusively into forwards. 30M by next offseason in forwards (Gallagher, Suzuki, Caufield and PLD). Let's assume slaf does well as a 1st overall pick and gets 8M in 3 years too (he's playing in the NHL), and 2023 is forward heavy so we'll probably end up with a forward. Say it's bedard, who gets 10M+ in 4 years.

By the middle of the suzuki, caufield and PLD contracts we could potentially have 48M in 6 forwards. I'll be generous and say we find a way to dump Gallagher by then, 42M in 5 forwards. Maybe it isn't a concern but it's a red flag too me.

I just feel like getting PLD would be a mistake at this point. I agree with others in this thread, rather save that space on the cap for a 1D.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I personally dont want to give up anything for PLD......I would rather keep my assets and gain more assets.....PLD can go play somewhere else.....If Hughes is forced to aquire PLD he is no better than Bergevin

That's emotion talking. If I see anything in Hughes, it is a strong penchant for logic. A logical manager considers all options then makes a decision. In that decision-making process all the factors people bring up on both sides are taken into account, but Hughes is not the type to focus on just one point, make a snap decision and close his mind.

 

[ArtPeur]

This is insanity

Why lose Dach, Dvorak, Anderson when we can get Dubois FOR FREE with some patience?

Those 3 are worth 3 first round picks + 3 prospects at the minimum!

There's nothing that says he will be really available for free in 2 years. Nothing. Montreal may have moved on from getting him and have no cap space available. He might have signed a multi-year deal somewhere else too.

 

[BaseballCoach]

In my view it's not really ideal because it's money poured exclusively into forwards. 30M by next offseason in forwards (Gallagher, Suzuki, Caufield and PLD). Let's assume slaf does well as a 1st overall pick and gets 8M in 3 years too (he's playing in the NHL), and 2023 is forward heavy so we'll probably end up with a forward. Say it's bedard, who gets 10M+ in 4 years.

By the middle of the suzuki, caufield and PLD contracts we could potentially have 48M in 6 forwards. I'll be generous and say we find a way to dump Gallagher by then, 42M in 5 forwards. Maybe it isn't a concern but it's a red flag too me.

I just feel like getting PLD would be a mistake at this point. I agree with others in this thread, rather save that space on the cap for a 1D.

I'm in between. I'd value PLD at 5-7 years $6.5-$7M to keep the balance needed to build the whole roster. And if we had 5 actual elite forwards and we thought 4 was better, we could trade one for an elite D. BPA, BPA, BPA.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

In my view it's not really ideal because it's money poured exclusively into forwards. 30M by next offseason in forwards (Gallagher, Suzuki, Caufield and PLD). Let's assume slaf does well as a 1st overall pick and gets 8M in 3 years too (he's playing in the NHL), and 2023 is forward heavy so we'll probably end up with a forward. Say it's bedard, who gets 10M+ in 4 years.

By the middle of the suzuki, caufield and PLD contracts we could potentially have 48M in 6 forwards. I'll be generous and say we find a way to dump Gallagher by then, 42M in 5 forwards. Maybe it isn't a concern but it's a red flag too me.

I just feel like getting PLD would be a mistake at this point. I agree with others in this thread, rather save that space on the cap for a 1D.

Yeah, signing PLD's next contract will probably be a mistake. He's a low-end top 6 player and he will clog up cap space.

If PLD was a UFA this season, I don't think the Habs would end up being the team to sign him.

 

[Maukkis]

In my opinion there is clearly a fair deal that can be worked on. No overpayment et no underpayment. The Florida 1st has to be included. Dvorak has good value (2C-3C at good cap hit). He is still worth what the habs paid for. A valuable prospect that could be a steal (ex Harris/Farrell/Mailloux/Barron). Another player for cap reason and maybe a 3rd/4th/5th pick.

I think so too. However, it remains to be seen if Stastny re-signs with the Jets: if that happens, then it becomes a lot more difficult to fit Dvorak into the deal. That is up in the air, though.

I wouldn't do either of those. In the 2nd one Dach seems to be worth next to nothing.

I doubt it's a 4 to 1 trade - I think you take out the FLA 1st in both deals, and still I wouldn't do the second one.

Truth be told, I value Dach a lot less than Hughes apparently did. Then there is the matter of Hoffman being about a thousand times worse fit for us than Dvorak, which I think needs to show in the return too.

Also, I find it super unlikely that the acquisition of Dach was made to facilitate a Dubois trade. We had the pick #14 and did not have to trade a fine young player like Romanov mid-draft to get it. Surely we could have gone after Dach ourselves, if that was what we so badly wanted? If I had to guess, something unexpected fell through in an enormous fashion.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Dubois is a decent 2C who can't win face offs. Five years in, his production has been just okay. I expect Suzuki to keep progressing in production , but question if PLD does. We actually would have been better off keeping Danault given his face off success , top tier defensive play, than trading for PLD with similar production to Danault.

I go back and forth here. But I think we are better off without getting PLD because of what we likely have to give up for him. I would rather save the assets for next year and especially the 2023 draft. draft.

PLD for me is like a 1B. He was Columbus' 1C and in Winnipeg, he was at times the 1C and Scheifele the 2C and vice versa. Winnipeg's beat writer for The Athletic was on Marinaro's podcast yesterday and he said for long stretches, he was Winnipeg's most dominant player.

In the bubble, when Columbus beat the Leafs in the Play-In, PLD was the guy who took charge and carried the Blue Jackets to win that series.

His face-offs might not be the best, but he offers so much more than just face-offs. Suzuki isn't that good on the dot either after 3 seasons. But he does so many other things that benefit the Habs. Caufield is not good at board battles, but he brings other aspects that benefit the team.

I agree with you about the potential cost to acquire him. PLD the player, I want him, even the contract he'd want, I'd be good with it because I'd rather have guys like Suzuki, PLD, and Caufield take up cap space than have guys like Gallagher, Armia, and Hoffman do so.

But if Winnipeg is asking for a Suzuki, a Guhle or a Barron, then I pass on PLD.

Barron is an RD and Habs need to deepen that side of the D, especially when you consider that Petry could be gone at some point. Guhle is most likely the main reason Romanov was expandable because Habs probably feel like Guhle could be a better version of Romanov. And of course, Suzuki is as untouchable as it gets on the Habs.

 

[Habby4Life]

This is insanity

Why lose Dach, Dvorak, Anderson when we can get Dubois FOR FREE with some patience?

Those 3 are worth 3 first round picks + 3 prospects at the minimum!

Exactly, just trade Dvo & Andy and get more picks. In 2 yrs this team will be much better then if PLD hits UFA get him for free.

I don’t think PLD is anything special.

 

[FrankMTL]

I would need another full year of watching Dubois play. Love the player, but I'm afraid he is what he is in the sense that he's a a big physical forward who's talented but inconsistent. We have a lite version of that already.

 

[SlafySZN]

With PLD being at the draft and all.....that trade was definitely supposed to be for him and not Dach......very interesting turn of events

It was supposed to be Dach all along, not Dubois.

Hughes had to trade for a high pick to be able to get him because chicago asked for picks. He had to involve another team that wanted to trade their pick so the trade can work out.

And the trade was done days before the draft, not the same day.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Truth be told, I value Dach a lot less than Hughes apparently did. Then there is the matter of Hoffman being about a thousand times worse fit for us than Dvorak, which I think needs to show in the return too.

Also, I find it super unlikely that the acquisition of Dach was made to facilitate a Dubois trade. We had the pick #14 and did not have to trade a fine young player like Romanov mid-draft to get it. Surely we could have gone after Dach ourselves, if that was what we so badly wanted? If I had to guess, something unexpected fell through in an enormous fashion.

Yeah Hoffman has little value - I'm surprised you pointed to him. Anderson has like 20x the value that Hoffman has.

I think the deal that makes some sense is an Anderson for PLD trade straight up or close to it.
But ultimately I doubt the deal happens. Hughes traded for Dach - he made his choice.

 

[BaseballCoach]

There's nothing that says he will be really available for free in 2 years. Nothing. Montreal may have moved on from getting him and have no cap space available. He might have signed a multi-year deal somewhere else too.

The "get him for free later" crowd is mostly filled with people who just don't like Dubois. If you really like a player, you try to find a way to get it done and if it does not work, you move on.

I like that girl, there's something about her, but she is going to school in Winnipeg, and has a boyfriend right now she is apparently not ready/willing to marry. My friends are worried I may not be able to win her over now, and I may not be able to keep her afterwards because I still have two years of school left and am in life building phase. Other mutual friends are telling me she kind of likes me and is from Montreal.

Should I take the advice to wait until her current relationship ends (looks like two years IF NO ONE ELSE MAKES A MOVE) and at that point if the people who say she likes me and wants to move to Montreal are right, she'll come running!

If I took the advice to not reach out, it would logically be that I don't really think she could be part of my life when I finish building it.

 

[Colezuki]

Yeah Hoffman has little value - I'm surprised you pointed to him. Anderson has like 20x the value that Hoffman has.

I think the deal that makes some sense is an Anderson for PLD trade straight up or close to it.
But ultimately I doubt the deal happens. Hughes traded for Dach - he made his choice.

I think part of the reason that isn’t being floated is supposedly Andy and Dubois we’re friends in Columbus and they’d want to rekindle the relationship

 

[blarneylad]

PLD for me is like a 1B. He was Columbus' 1C and in Winnipeg, he was at times the 1C and Scheifele the 2C and vice versa. Winnipeg's beat writer for The Athletic was on Marinaro's podcast yesterday and he said for long stretches, he was Winnipeg's most dominant player.

In the bubble, when Columbus beat the Leafs in the Play-In, PLD was the guy who took charge and carried the Blue Jackets to win that series.

His face-offs might not be the best, but he offers so much more than just face-offs. Suzuki isn't that good on the dot either after 3 seasons. But he does so many other things that benefit the Habs. Caufield is not good at board battles, but he brings other aspects that benefit the team.

I agree with you about the potential cost to acquire him. PLD the player, I want him, even the contract he'd want, I'd be good with it because I'd rather have guys like Suzuki, PLD, and Caufield take up cap space than have guys like Gallagher, Armia, and Hoffman do so.

But if Winnipeg is asking for a Suzuki, a Guhle or a Barron, then I pass on PLD.

Barron is an RD and Habs need to deepen that side of the D, especially when you consider that Petry could be gone at some point. Guhle is most likely the main reason Romanov was expandable because Habs probably feel like Guhle could be a better version of Romanov. And of course, Suzuki is as untouchable as it gets on the Habs.

After everything you posted, Barron is a no go for you?

Does that suggest that Barron will be some kind of top pair powerhouse or something? Because ya, if he is a can't miss top pair dman then I would be reluctant to make the trade. But we've signed UFA guys to spot fill top four roles and they did admirable jobs ie Edmundson, Chiarot.

If Barron is a 3/4 dman RD, I just think we can fill that hole for cheaper than the cost of losing out on PLD.

Money has to go back, so one of Anderson/Dvorak makes sense as they are useful for their contracts. Even a guy like Dadonov possibly because Peg could use him for playoffs or flip him at deadline for more assets. That helps out money and roster spots.

But then you enter the 1st Fla 2023 and a prospect. If the package is Dvorak, Dadonov/Armia, 1st Fla 2023, prospect...I'm willing to let that prospect be Barron. Obviously I'd prefer it to be a forward like Roy or Kidney but Peg should have their choice of anyone not named (speaking strictly of prospects): Guhle and Slaf,

 

[bcv]

We are not tanking for Bedard regardless of Dubois.

Do people pay attention to how Gorton had operated in New York?

Yeah? He picked 2nd overall and then 1st overall in back to back years, sounds like the Habs are right on track..