HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[Spring in Fialta]

I think Gorton would want an expedited rebuild like in New York. There’s no reason to let this drag out longer than this season. You want Slaf and the 2023 1st rounder to be able to contribute to a good team while on their ELCs.

They obviously have that in mind. They traded the 13th overall for a 21 year-old. They gave up Lehkonen for a guy drafted in 2020. Dubois is only 24. As they rightfully said, they'll take a young player before a pick. They have no intention of lingering like Arizona or Chicago.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

I don't see Hughes being willing to give up any of our top prospects in a Dubois trade. We should still be able to make a solid offer due to our insane prospect depth

Poehling, Ylonen, Mysak, Heineman, Smilanic, Kidney, Struble, Fairbrother, Kapanen, Tuch, Norlinder, RHP etc. should be available in a Dubois trade.

Dvorak would obviously also be part of the offer.

Florida's 1st could also be available (top 10 protected)

Assuming Dubois is not interested in signing a long-term contract with any other team, we just need to make an offer that would beat what Dubois would return as a 2-year rental.

So you want to outbid contending teams to get a player that would only sign a long term contract with us, who will also be a UFA in 2 years?

 

[SlafySZN]

That doesn’t make sense lol. Hughes made a deal for the islanders 13th specifically to get Dach, he was searching for a team willing to trade a high pick because that was what chicago was asking. He said it himself. Kinda funny how people make scenarios with things Hughes already talked about.

 

[The Great Weal]

I'm probably one of PLD's biggest fans, but he's only hit 60 points twice in his career. I'm not giving up much for him. We need to use the premium assets for dmen help for when we want to compete.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

So you want to outbid contending teams to get a player that would only sign a long term contract with us, who will also be a UFA in 2 years?

Yes, if it's reasonable for us. Like the package I posted earlier.

 

[Archijerej]

Barron will definitely not be available. The habs are in major need of RD.

I'm sure we would rather keep him if we can, but I doubt he's untouchable in a deal for Dubois. Positional needs are real, but there are ways to address them. Anderson, for example, hardly has less value than Lehkonen had and teams have RHD prospects to trade.

Mailloux likely isn't available either because his trade value is low and his potential is very high.

Agreed. Mailloux is probably not that enticing due to development time lost.

Harris could be available, but I doubt Hughes would be happy to give him up after having traded Romanov.

See my comments regarding Barron.

Dvorak + florida's 1st (top 10 protected) + Poehling/Ylonen/Kidney + 2nd/Mysak/Heineman/etc.
is what I could see us offer.

That is again a quantity offer that the Jets won't bite, imo. They certainly want at least one future asset with a fairly high chance of hitting its potential. The players above are either just names that will likely never amount into anything, or prospects with projectable, but limited potential.

Dvorak is again the main part of the deal. That's not gonna fly.

We're definitely not going to pay fair value for Dubois.

I think you're going to be surprised, or even dissapointed. The nature of our leverage is that PLD is available without involving pieces that under different circumstances would have to be included (Suzuki/Caufield/Slafkovsky/Guhle). That doesn't mean the Jets are going to give him away for Dvorak +.

 

[Archijerej]

I'm probably one of PLD's biggest fans, but he's only hit 60 points twice in his career.

You realise this is still a better track record than our current best forward?

I'm not giving up much for him. We need to use the premium assets for dmen help for when we want to compete.

The premium asset to trade for a #1D is going to be selected in this year's draft.

 

[Draft]

Let me get this straight - if we trade for PLD and sign him. By the end of year 2 of our "rebuild" - so next offseason, we'll already have 3 forwards signed for ~8M (Caufield, Suzuki and PLD)? Plus, Gallagher for 6.5M long term.

Slaf isn't signed long term, our 2023 presumably high draft pick isn't signed long term - so that money still needs to go out. No #1D in sight, no long term goalie.

This seems like too much cap dedicated too soon in a supposed rebuild.

Do you realize how ideal it is to have three core pieces locked up long term for 7-8mil? These aren’t the jumbo contracts that are limiting Edmonton or Toronto. These are tradable contracts that are very easy to build around. The cap will continue to increase and it will become less and less of a concern as we near our competitive window.

If you want to build a roster that can compete with every team year in and year out, getting a core group of forwards (4) signed to this level of contract is pretty attractive. It allows you to fill holes without being too top heavy, it allows you to put money into defence and goaltending. We’ll have to keep an eye out for Slaf and the 2023 pick if it’s any good, but I’d rather be spoiled by riches and have to trade one than pinch pennies in case it might happen.

 

[SlafySZN]

You realise this is still a better track record than our current best forward?


The premium asset to trade for a #1D is going to be selected in this year's draft.

Suzuki has been in the league 3 years, Dubois 6, it’s the only reason he has two 60 points season and suzuki hasn’t yet, but will soon enough.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Barron will definitely not be available. The habs are in major need of RD.
Mailloux likely isn't available either because his trade value is low and his potential is very high. I also doubt the jets would be interested in the controversy that would come with acquiring Mailloux.
Harris could be available, but I doubt Hughes would be happy to give him up after having traded Romanov.
Mesar sure.

Dvorak + florida's 1st (top 10 protected) + Poehling/Ylonen/Kidney + 2nd/Mysak/Heineman/etc.
is what I could see us offer.
It's more of a quantity package than quality, but its probably more than what Dubois would get as a rental.

We're definitely not going to pay fair value for Dubois.

That’s an insane price to pay considering we can get him for free with a bit of patience. This would be a giant mistake. Let’s stay the course and tank for Bedard.

 

[Scriptor]

Based on this years draft and a pick between 6-10 I’d still be expecting a 1st line centre
Dubois has 5 years in the league no - I think he’s pretty much reached his peak now which is a good second line centre.
Again if he could potentially be acquired for free in 2 years why waste the assets to acquire him now?

It's a bit wishful thinking to expect a kid who plays physical hockey (with all the inherent risks to playing that style of hockey), to keep signing 1-yr arbitration deals until he is an UFA.

The player would likely want the security of a long term deal right now, in a league where contracts are still guaranteed, short of a buyout where the player still gets 2/3 of the pay.

That's where Montreal could, while wasting trade assets to get Dubois, get the C/W to agree to a contract cap figure that ends top helping Montreal to remain competitive in three to four years when they will maximize the assets on the roster and attempt to acquire missing pieces beyond Dubois.

Dubois at 7.5M long term is, IMHO, a distinct possibility if Montreal offers maximum term while buying out two RFA seasons in the process.

On a 7-year contract right now, Dubois comes out of it as a player turning 31 on Hune 24th of that year, with the possibility of re-signing a lucrative medium term contract.

After signing successive 1-year contracts to be able to head towards Montreal as an UFA, the 7-year contract he would sign would make him 33 coming out of it and his options tom re-sign a final longer term, lucrative contract are greatly diminished.

IMO, he ends up signing a costly, shorter term contract with Montreal under that scenario, nothing as helpful to acquire the missing depth to go further in the playoffs.

Players like Dvorak and other assets we would give up would not be part of our core heading forward and while they would prevent us from acquiring other assets for the same players, the use of those trade chips for Dubois would be justified, IMHO and adding the Laurentians native to the lineup would only help further develop players like Suzuki and Caufield, plus Slafkovsky and Dach (if we keep Dach in the process), whether it be by playing on a line with them or by playing on a different line and adding the talented depth to make opponents juggle their best defensive forwards against different lines from our team instead of stacking their shutdown players always against Suzuki and Caufield.

 

[Scriptor]

Dvo + Anderson and FLA 1st is pretty fair imo.
They won’t do it but I think it’s fair.

Those who think this is worthless to WIN and that WIN would never do it are seriously misinterpreting the context WIN is working from.

Lately, WIN has dealt with disgruntled players they needed to trade because they didn't want to stay in WIN; Laine and Roslovic, amongst others. Right now, we have some concerns other veterans want to leave WIN -- beyond just Dubois.

Offering a reasonably priced C like Dvorak, who is under team control for three more years, a rare power forward with speed like Anderson, still under team control for 5 more years is of huge value to a destination like WIN that has the highest mention in NMCs across the league.

Built to win now or, otherwise, to blow it all up and embark on a reluctant reconstruction, WIN would also get two players who can play right now for them, not hopeful prospects who haven't yet demonstrated anything for them.

Maybe adding a 1st round pick like Poehling, a young C prospect, on top of Dvorak could sweeten the pot enough to be tempting to WIN once they see not many offers from other teams are blowing them out of the water.

Dvorak + Andersdon + Poehling + FLA 2023 1st rounder (top-10 protected)

VS

Dubois

It seems like a lot to me, but I'd be willing to sacrifice those assets in a trade for Dubois, allowing a top-6 that either has Dubois at C or at wing on a line with Suzuki and Caufield.

Dubois - Suzuki - Caufield
Slafkovsky - Dach - Ylonen/Dadonov/Galkagher/Hoffman/Drouin

Pick and choose for the RW.

Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Caufield
Dadonov - Dach - Gallagher
Drouin - Dubois - Ylonen
Hoffman - Evans - Armia

 

[Scriptor]

Do you realize how ideal it is to have three core pieces locked up long term for 7-8mil? These aren’t the jumbo contracts that are limiting Edmonton or Toronto. These are tradable contracts that are very easy to build around. The cap will continue to increase and it will become less and less of a concern as we near our competitive window.

If you want to build a roster that can compete with every team year in and year out, getting a core group of forwards (4) signed to this level of contract is pretty attractive. It allows you to fill holes without being too top heavy, it allows you to put money into defence and goaltending. We’ll have to keep an eye out for Slaf and the 2023 pick if it’s any good, but I’d rather be spoiled by riches and have to trade one than pinch pennies in case it might happen.

Even on this 81.5M Cap, a cap breakdown of 50M for forwards, 25M for D and 6.5M for Gs is plenty to sign 1 F at 8M, another at 7.5M, one at 7M and a 4th one at 6.5M. That's 29M of 50M for those core assets, leaving plenty of money to round out the roster up front with more quality players, especially some on ELCs before needing to make choices further down the line.

25M on D, considering 3 x 3.5M Ds for depth on 2nd and 3rd pairings, a 1M rookie D to round out the 3rd pairing, that leaves you 13.5M for the top pairing, plenty of money to signa true #1D and a solid #2 D.

 

[Archijerej]

Suzuki has been in the league 3 years, Dubois 6, it’s the only reason he has two 60 points season and suzuki hasn’t yet, but will soon enough.

Dubois has entered the league at a younger age. I would very much like for Suzuki to be in a different tier, but so far this is not the case.

 

[Weltschmerz]

FLA 2023 1st rounder (top-10 protected)

so if Floridas pick would be 10 they get the Habs unprotected 2024 pick instead?

 

[BaseballCoach]

The Jets do not want our junk................Armia, Hoffman, Savard, good lord Drouin, or Byron............just put yourself in the Jets side for a second..............do not go to the main board with this, or they will find you.
The Jets don't leverage on this deal, but they are not taking junk for PLD.

I'll refine it a bit.

The Jets have cap space. The "junk" as you call it is in addition to a fair return. And the junk can play hockey on the ice.

How about:
Dach
Evans or Poehling
Armia or Savard or Hoffman or Byron or Drouin (just one)

Of course the key player is Dach. As a former 3OA with size, just 21yo, from the West, he has the clear potential to fill Dubois' shoes for a long time, 4 years of which are under team control. If they don't like him as the foundational piece there is no deal. So assume they like him.

They also get a competitive and useful two-way young C locked in at $1.7M for 3 years or if they prefer, a former 1st rounder C/LW that still has 4 years of control and is currently at $750k.

Then for the "cap piece", they can pick the hockey player they feel they can best use between 2 expiring contracts, one two-year contract and two three-year contracts. Just one.

Honestly I think this is a pretty fair return for a guy you can't keep long term, and had one good season out of two that you had him.

 

[Legend123]

so if Floridas pick would be 10 they get the Habs unprotected 2024 pick instead?

What a disaster that would be

 

[MarkovsKnee]

We heard before the draft that Dvorak & Anderson seemed to be on the verge of being traded. Most seemed to think to Ottawa or NJ, but maybe it was to Winnipeg for Dubois.

Dvorak, Anderson & 13th OA. According to another Athletic report, it was Winnipeg that pulled out of the deal after they asked for someone Montreal was unwilling to trade. Guesses seem to be Guhle or Barron.

 

[dinodebino]

We heard before the draft that Dvorak & Anderson seemed to be on the verge of being traded. Most seemed to think to Ottawa or NJ, but maybe it was to Winnipeg for Dubois.

Dvorak, Anderson & 13th OA. According to another Athletic report, it was Winnipeg that pulled out of the deal after they asked for someone Montreal was unwilling to trade. Guesses seem to be Guhle or Barron.

View attachment 569833

Pat is usually coy when it comes to that type of public pressure. With PLD, he’s been acting like Scott Boras! Verrry unusual in his case.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Pat is usually coy when it comes to that type of public pressure. With PLD, he’s been acting like Scott Boras! Verrry unusual in his case.

Probably because Dubois doesn't actually want to go back to Winnipeg, and wants to be traded this summer. He realizes that putting in an official trade request when he just did that to Columbus 2 years ago would look really, really bad; instead he announces he won't sign a long-term deal in the hope they trade him anyway.

Apparently, he was expecting to be traded at the draft. Can you imagine instead of the Dach deal Bettman announced a trade for PLD? Place would have gone nuts.

Or maybe Dach was part of a package for Dubois? Or, Jets wanted Dach after Montreal made the deal.

Who knows but it seemed like a trade was in place & Winnipeg nixed it.

 

[Archijerej]

That’s an insane price to pay considering we can get him for free with a bit of patience. This would be a giant mistake. Let’s stay the course and tank for Bedard.

We are not tanking for Bedard regardless of Dubois.

Do people pay attention to how Gorton had operated in New York?

 

[Vachon23]

I'm probably one of PLD's biggest fans, but he's only hit 60 points twice in his career. I'm not giving up much for him. We need to use the premium assets for dmen help for when we want to compete.

Suzuki only did it 1x

 

[Archijerej]

Dvorak, Anderson & 13th OA. According to another Athletic report, it was Winnipeg that pulled out of the deal after they asked for someone Montreal was unwilling to trade. Guesses seem to be Guhle or Barron.

I really want Dubois, but even for me that's too rich.

 

[OldCraig71]

If we get Dubois it makes more sense why we drafted Slaf. Molson is not sitting through a 3-5 year rebuild and once some of the bad contracts are unloaded we will see our management team become more active in free agency starting next summer. This will be the last season of focusing on a top 5 pick.

 

[BLONG7]

I'll refine it a bit.

The Jets have cap space. The "junk" as you call it is in addition to a fair return. And the junk can play hockey on the ice.

How about:
Dach
Evans or Poehling
Armia or Savard or Hoffman or Byron or Drouin (just one)

Of course the key player is Dach. As a former 3OA with size, just 21yo, from the West, he has the clear potential to fill Dubois' shoes for a long time, 4 years of which are under team control. If they don't like him as the foundational piece there is no deal. So assume they like him.

They also get a competitive and useful two-way young C locked in at $1.7M for 3 years or if they prefer, a former 1st rounder C/LW that still has 4 years of control and is currently at $750k.

Then for the "cap piece", they can pick the one they feel they can best use between 2 expiring contracts, one two-year contract and two three-year contracts. Just one.

Honestly I think this is a pretty fair return for a guy you can't keep long term, and had one good season out of two that you had him.

This one makes more sense, but still not sure, the Jets bite...............they probably should, but who knows...

The other thing that comes into play, and Hughes knows it..............no other team will bite, because he is openly talking about going ufa in two years, and wants to play with the habs.
Kudos to PLD for wanting to come...............most young franco players seem to shy away from Montreal and all the pressure.