HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[JoelWarlord]

What if Dach or Mesar (or both) turn out to be top 2C? What if we draft Bedard in 2023?

Then you play Dubois on the wing and have the luxury of either having Slafkovsky and Dubois split across two lines, or using Dubois at C to run three top 6 C's on your top 3 lines in the playoffs if you need to. "What if we have too many good C's" is probably the single best problem to have in hockey.

What if he busts and we can no longer trade him away?

What? He's an established 24 year old with 239P in 361 NHL games and three 20G+ seasons in his career already.

 

[Justin11]

I would be as well. But someone within the Habs’ org appears to be pushing for this to happen.

I’d much rather see the same efforts deployed toward landing a young RH first pairing ceiling offensive PMD, which we don’t currently have outside of maybe Hutson realizing his full potential.

I'm guessing it's Molson, would only make sense.

I agree on landing a young RH first pairing D.

 

[cphabs]

Centers can be converted to wing, and it's irrational to plan on the Habs drafting Bedard.

That’s always worked out for us!

 

[Habs Halifax]

We paid a first and a second for Dvorak so we're not counting him as a first?
Dach was just obtained for 13th overall so him/Panthers first would also count as one?
That makes 2 firsts according to my math.....

OK, if you are counting Dvorak as a 1st, that works. Are we really complaining about that?

Dach has value. No doubt about it but let me ask you this... Chances he becomes as good as Dubois? We did trade Romanov for him.

So yeah, that is two 1st. You say no to this?

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'd prefer to give Dach a look than do anything for PLD. I'm not a huge fan of PLD and locking him into a long term deal north 0f 7million is the type of decisions that led us to the current cap mess situation we are in. Overpaying for good, not great players. I pass on PLD, let him quit on another team, somewhere else.

I can respect that argument. Player evaluation is key. My point all along is that if PLD is the right age and the right guy to be our 2C, then we should not be shy to make a fair offer to get him. I don't agree with the idea that we should wait until a guy is UFA to go after him. We should not be counting on UFA signings when 32 teams can make offers.

However, if there is concern about a player quitting on us, or being paid more than he is expected to produce, then you pass, no problem. We are allowed to say 'on passe à autre chose'.

By all means, let's give Dach a look, why else did we get him?

 

[Captain Mountain]

That’s always worked out for us!

Its the converting wingers to center which has been the issue.

 

[Runner77]

Based on some articles I have read the Jets lockeroom is not a very good one. Laine wanted out because of the treatment he received from Wheeler and Shitfly.

True but don’t forget that Dubois also wanted out of Columbus and he resorted to a shift of shame to force their hand. Hoping his next landing spot is the right one.

 

[Justin11]

I'd prefer to give Dach a look than do anything for PLD. I'm not a huge fan of PLD and locking him into a long term deal north 0f 7million is the type of decisions that led us to the current cap mess situation we are in. Overpaying for good, not great players. I pass on PLD, let him quit on another team, somewhere else.

Agreed. If Dach can do what I beleive he is capable of, we will have another top 6 center along with Suzuki.

 

[HabzSauce]

What if Dach or Mesar (or both) turn out to be top 2C? What if we draft Bedard in 2023? What do we do with a PLD that we don't need with a massive contract? What if he busts and we can no longer trade him away?

If he really wants to play in Montreal, I'd say we get him for free in two years, IF we need him then.

Getting him at a decent price now would be fine. Overpaying for him now does not make sense.

Those are a lot of IFs you got there. Not sure it's wise to pass on players like PLD for reasons like this.

I'd rather grab all the value we can if there is an opportunity for it. Worst case if Dach and Mesar hit their ceiling, then we just flip them for needs. Very good problem to have.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I can respect that argument. Player evaluation is key. My point all along is that if PLD is the right age and the right guy to be our 2C, then we should not be shy to make a fair offer to get him. I donMt agree with the idea that we should wait until a guy is UFA to go after him. We should not be counting on UFA signings when 32 teams can make offers.

However, if there is concern about a player quitting on us, or being paid more than he is expected to produce, then you pass.

By all means, let's give Dach a look, why else did we get him?

I agree with your philosophy in general. I disagree with the player. I'm not a fan of PLD, I would do what you suggest for another player who I believed was the right guy. I don't believe PLD is that guy, but I do think Dach could be.

 

[GalHabsGal]

Those are a lot of IFs you got there. Not sure it's wise to pass on players like PLD for reasons like this.

I'd rather grab all the value we can if there is an opportunity for it. Worst case if Dach and Mesar hit their ceiling, then we just flip them for needs. Very good problem to have.

Dont gorget Farrell, 1-2 more years in NCAA, and he can MAYBE jump to NHL, and become in 2-4 years a good 2C in NHL!

 

[Goldenhands]

I believe this gets done one way or the other and it gets done this summer.

There is a lot of smoke, the parties were close at the draft and talks resumed this week for a reason.

I believe Dubois’ camp are trying to force the Jets’ hand however, I was never a fan of players who openly discuss plans or hopes of playing for another team. It is clear in this instance that it’s not the Jets who leaked Dubois’ preference for Montreal but Dubois himself:

"Here is what I believe to be true about Dubois. I believe he quite sincerely does hope to test the UFA market in 2024. I believe he would like to play in Montreal in the long run and has not been shy about expressing that within team circles. I don’t think telling the Jets about his UFA plans is posturing in the slightest; I think it is the truth."

Quote comes from an Athletic article by Murat Ates from June 24th that was already mentioned here and that’s behind a paywall: Ates: Jets' uncertainty about core's future won't be solved by new coach

Couldn’t Dubois just have chosen to keep it between himself, his agent and the Jets? I think the Jets lose some leverage here — how could they want someone in their dressing who is openly stating that he wants to play for another team?

I’m not saying the Jets are going to give him away but they may just have to trade him before the start of the season, whether it’s to the Habs or someone else.

I was listening at a radio show the other day while driving back home and the animator was saying that Dubois told him he would love to play in Montreal and animator (Jeremy Rinville I believe) said that he felt the kid was pretty sincere about it.

I havent watched Dubois enough in the past couple of years but I do believe he still is a very good hockey player, would be great to have him!

 

[McPhees Moustache]

OK, if you are counting Dvorak as a 1st, that works. Are we really complaining about that?

Dach has value. No doubt about it but let me ask you this... Chances he becomes as good as Dubois? We did trade Romanov for him.

So yeah, that is two 1st. You say no to this?

Dach could surpass Dubois's level but I don't think I'd bet on it at this point - regardless of whether he breaks out or not Dach will always be more of a playmaker while Dubois is more of a well-rounded power forward style.

I wouldn't make the trade right now - just don't want to give up assets equivalent to 2 1sts for a player that could potentially be had for free in a couple years, even if the contract signed at that point may cost a little more.

 

[cphabs]

Its the converting wingers to center which has been the issue.

A new frontier for us! I can’t wait!

 

[General Fanager]

I dont see The Habs getting PLD without giving up one of the untouchables, unless The Jets want a big package of futures.....

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Slaf - Suzuki - Caufield
PLD - Dach - Anderson

Slaf - Suzuki - Caufield
Hoffman - PLD - Anderson
Armia - Dach - Gally

Pretty good lines. With some players off the books in the next 2 years, some spots could be replaced withbetter talent.

 

[yianik]

What I dont like about getting PLD now is if we trade assets for him then we can only justify that if we sign him long term.

To sign long term, PLD will want to get paid, but how much ? For what he has done so far, almost 30 goals, just over 60 points, in 5 years of hockey, I am not paying him more than $6.5M a year. I dont think he signs long term for that amount, but I dont have confidence that he can produce any better, so will not offer more if Im HUGO.

So where I read people suggesting we sign him for $9-$10M, I think that is insane and have no interest. Its why I am thinking ideally he plays a couple more years and we see what he does. If he produces better and is going UFA then fine, will ante up. And if he signs long term elsewhere in the meantime ? Well, thats the way it goes and am fine with that.

 

[Tyson]

True but don’t forget that Dubois also wanted out of Columbus and he resorted to a shift of shame to force their hand. Hoping his next landing spot is the right one.

I agree that it doesn't look good for Dubois that 2 teams- neither he meshes with.

 

[Hannibal]

Keep in mind that he doesn’t want to re-sign a long contract in winnipeg. They’re getting more handcuffed by the day.

 

[417]

And that’s absolutely fair.

Their hands appear to be somewhat tied in this situation and it seems pretty apparent that PLD’s intention is to sign with us as a UFA in a few years which totally negates his trade value to any team hoping to use him beyond a 1-2 year window. And how much value will a disgruntled player being sent somewhere he doesn’t want to go, hold?

Oh I agree about the leverage part but just putting myself in the shoes of the Jets...I wouldn't let the Habs play that leverage, at lest not right now.

There's also no rush for them to move him now, they can play this out a little longer. There's no pressure point at this stage.

 

[Runner77]

I was listening at a radio show the other day while driving back home and the animator was saying that Dubois told him he would love to play in Montreal and animator (Jeremy Rinville I believe) said that he felt the kid was pretty sincere about it.

I havent watched Dubois enough in the past couple of years but I do believe he still is a very good hockey player, would be great to have him!

The interest from Dubois is certainly there and his agent has been communicating it:

Oh I agree about the leverage part but just putting myself in the shoes of the Jets...I wouldn't let the Habs play that leverage, at lest not right now.

There's also no rush for them to move him now, they can play this out a little longer. There's no pressure point at this stage.

I’d say it depends if the Jets view the presence of a player who manifestly has shown interest to play for Montreal, as an insurmountable detriment to their roster.

 

[Lazytrout]

When's the last time a local player of PLD's caliber tried this hard to force his way to the Habs? Did it ever even happen? Feels surreal.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Dach could surpass Dubois's level but I don't think I'd bet on it at this point - regardless of whether he breaks out or not Dach will always be more of a playmaker while Dubois is more of a well-rounded power forward style.

I wouldn't make the trade right now - just don't want to give up assets equivalent to 2 1sts for a player that could potentially be had for free in a couple years, even if the contract signed at that point may cost a little more.

Dubois will almost surely not be available in two years. That's ok. I'm not willing to pay two firsts for a player whose cheap years are over and is currently the 10th best player from his draft year (54 points per year average).

If the club feels he has the right character, I would like to see them pay a price of around one 1st (or equivalent) plus a small sweetener, and then sign him long-term for around $6.5M. If his character is deemed questionable, they would not be interested. We always come back to player evaluation. It's so important.

 

[Drive425]

Those are a lot of IFs you got there. Not sure it's wise to pass on players like PLD for reasons like this.

I'd rather grab all the value we can if there is an opportunity for it. Worst case if Dach and Mesar hit their ceiling, then we just flip them for needs. Very good problem to have.

I think ultimately the decision to move forward will depend on the cost. PLD in my opinion is not a need to have type of player and I want to believe Hugo have a structured plan to turn the organization around. He would definitely be a nice player to have but not at the expense of the rebuild plan that's in place.

The return to Winnipeg is the key here. Unless the trade is significantly in our favour and does not impact our draft/prospect pool I wouldn't do it.

 

[Playmaker09]

Dubois will almost surely not be available in two years. That's ok. I'm not willing to pay two firsts for a player whose cheap years are over and is currently the 10th best player from his draft year (54 points per year average).

If the club feels he has the right character, I would like to see them pay a price of around one 1st (or equivalent) plus a small sweetener, and then sign him long-term for around $6.5M. If his character is deemed questionable, they would not be interested. We always come back to player evaluation. It's so important.

Why not?

If he's determined to hit the market then no one can stop him. He'll take two 1-year arbitration deals and walk.