Trade Ideas

[izlez]

Not everyone can bulk up. Look at Hirose, Kailer, DDK or Djoos.

So the question is how much can they bulk up? I'm sure Kasper and Mazur will both come in heavier after a summer of working out, but is going to be 5 lbs or 15? If they gain 15 lbs like, Ray, and Joey then I'll re-evaluate. Pencilling them in right now is premature. Certainly for next season, I see both of them back in GR.

We've already seen it with Hirose, I really wanted to see him succeed, but I kept saying he wasn't gonna make it unless he gained weight. He gained like 5 lbs since the Wings picked him up, and he's an AHLer now. There's a huge gap between the AHL and NHL as far as athleticism, look at Czarnik. He's a PPG player in the AHL, and useless at the NHL level.


Interesting how smaller guys tend to get injured, isn't it?

Rat Face got concussed early in his career as well, but that was more of a height issue and not a weight issue. It's one of the reasons why he tends to lead with his elbow. Somehow the dirty PoS gets away with it.

Of course not everyone can bulk up, but I don't know that we need to be so focused on the occasional anomalies and act like its some unique hurdle to overcome.

I randomly picked 2010 and pulled some names I recognized:

	Draft	Today
Seguin	182	207
Zucker	174	192
Toffoli	183	203
Kuznetsov	172	207
Pysyk	174	198
Holl	170	194
Jarnkrok	156	190

Mazur and Kasper will gain weight because that's what professional athletes do. (I really don't know why we're even talking Kasper with different sources listing him at 187 and 192)

 

[Gniwder]

It is so weird that you have these concerns about forwards who are over 6 feet tall.

All the forwards you are comparing them to are several inches shorts, and the defenseman you are comparing them to that are similar heights are defenseman . Being a 185 lb forward in the NHL and being a 185 ln defenseman in the NHL are VERY different things.

I see no reason to believe Kasper won’t end up at around 6’1 and 190 lbs or more which I would categorize as not worrisome at all.

Plus the functional strength different people can achieve at the same weight is wild.

The point wasn't about position, it was about their inability to bulk up. I'm guessing you guys don't have friends that work out, how much weight a person can gain varies from person to person. Genetics factors into it, just like it does with "functional strength".

I quit working out when my muscles became stronger than my joints. Some people have limitations, aside from just weight gain.

Of course not everyone can bulk up, but I don't know that we need to be so focused on the occasional anomalies and act like its some unique hurdle to overcome.

I randomly picked 2010 and pulled some names I recognized:

	Draft	Today
Seguin	182	207
Zucker	174	192
Toffoli	183	203
Kuznetsov	172	207
Pysyk	174	198
Holl	170	194
Jarnkrok	156	190

Mazur and Kasper will gain weight because that's what professional athletes do. (I really don't know why we're even talking Kasper with different sources listing him at 187 and 192)

OK, what was their weight in their D+3 season? Because that's where Mazur is now.

He's gained 5 lbs in 3 years from what I can tell/

 

[19 for president]

I have zero concerns about Kasper playing in the NHL from a size perspective. It might impact whether he plays in the middle or not, but that’s about it.

Plus have you watched him play? His compete and ability to shield the puck is very very good. He is less of a perimeter player than a bunch of guys who weigh 10-20 lbs more than him (cough, Berggren).

And honestly that’s all a pretty similar story with Mazur, while we’re on this topic.

It's important to remember too that Kasper lost the entire summer training season. That is when guys usually work the most on strength and conditioning. I wouldn't be surprised to see him come to camp at 190, and he appears to have overall good strength. If he can stand up to the physicality of the AHL I'm not too concerned about the NHL because he isn't a perimeter player. The AHL is usually noted as being more physical than the NHL.

Also Kasper is listed at 183 on GR website. That isn't really super small. Putting on like 5-7 lbs isn't a terrible ask over a summer for one of these guys.


If we are talking about size, Aljo is the one I have the most concern about at the NHL Level. 6'0, 185 is tough in the NHL as a dmen. Smaller forwards can get by with some speed or play a more perimeter game. Dmen don't have that option unless they are Karlsson skilled and even then its an issue in the playoffs.

 

[Frk It]

The point wasn't about position, it was about their inability to bulk up. I'm guessing you guys don't have friends that work out, how much weight a person can gain varies from person to person. Genetics factors into it, just like it does with "functional strength".

I quit working out when my muscles became stronger than my joints. Some people have limitations, aside from just weight gain.




OK, what was their weight in their D+3 season? Because that's where Mazur is now.

He's gained 5 lbs in 3 years from what I can tell/

Yeah I know a decent amount about the subject. Kasper and Mazur are two different stories here, I don’t know why you were grouping them together in your original posts I was quoting.

6’1 183 lbs at 19 years old is not concerning.

6’0 172 lbs at 21 years old is somewhat concerning.

Again though, I think it matters what you can do at your respective weight. A guy like Gerbe could squat 500 lbs at 170 something pounds body weight. I’m not sure how strong these guys currently are at their weights.

Functional strength and play style can help mitigate size shortcomings a lot.

 

[letsgowings9999]

Söderblom has a year left in his ELC, successful playoffs this season and good offseason training, and we might have a new man in our hands in October.

Other way round mate. 2 years and 4 million a year for Sprong. Then trade him at the 2026 TDL and promote Danielson.

I think people jumped the gun on Byfield, people always expect that top-3 picks starts dominating instantly. And looking at his game amounts, he definitely had some injuries slowing him down. This season is Kakko's 6th professional season and i think this is what you get on Kakko. And considering that Rangers are cup contenders, i don't see them trading Kakko for picks. I could take Turcotte off the waivers list but i wouldn't pay for him, we got better prospects.

We got talent, what we don't have is a 100-point guy and player like that isn't necessary to have. This team what we already have, has scored 6th most goals in NHL and this team has 2nd or 3rd most comeback victories in the league.

Perron can get you a 3rd round pick, Ghost.... MAYBE a 4th round pick, Määttä would bring a 2nd round pick but Wings could get that or a 3rd at least during the next off season. Sprong a rental, a 3rd max. Reimer, nothing. Kostin, nothing. Fischer, a 6th round pick. And those players what Wings could select with those picks cannot help the Wings until 6-7 years from now. If they ever even can make it in the first place and Wings wont fall in the standings anymore than 2 or 3 spots. In this draft class there is no difference between 14th and 17th overall picks.

It's better to keep this team together and keep fighting for a playoff spot. We make it or we don't.

4 per for sprong is too rich considering hes mostly on the 4th line here

I'm just willing to take a chance on a turcotte etc.. cause we need to luck out and fine a high offensive guy . I dont think its sustainable me to maintain this scoring next season with this current lineup

I can see perron at 50% retained from a cup contender getting a 2nd . Hes got winning experience and sprong with his low salary and performance for a bottom line I think can also get a late 2nd. Maybe I'm naive but I think his low salary will be available

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Hanifin - Seider
Edvinsson - Axel Sandin Pellikka
Walman - xx

This D core would be absolute filth

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Hanifin - Seider
Edvinsson - Axel Sandin Pellikka
Walman - xx

This D core would be absolute filth

Where is Wallinder?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Where is Wallinder?

Traded 4 Hanifin

 

[SantosHalper]

Interesting how smaller guys tend to get injured, isn't it?

Well that's one theory and guys like Lemieux, Lindros, Forsberg, Pronger, Primeau, Deadmarsh, Franzen, Daze, Horton, Couturier, Seabrook, Backes, Kesler, Öhlund, Hatcher, Clowe, Souray, Krupp never got injured.

And who's the current NHL ironman? Andrew Cogliano, 5'10'' & 179lbs

4 per for sprong is too rich considering hes mostly on the 4th line here

I'm just willing to take a chance on a turcotte etc.. cause we need to luck out and fine a high offensive guy . I dont think its sustainable me to maintain this scoring next season with this current lineup

Offense costs money and you can add PP2 role in there too. Kakko or Turcotte doesn't provide the shot what Sprong brings. Sprong will be cheaper than any UFA in that point scale.

We have high offensive guys Cat, Ray who's flood gates are just opening, Larkin PPG and now Kane is healthy too. Depth scorer like Sprong adding 40-50 points and im interested to see what Berggren can do next season. Ras, Compher and Copp in 40-point territory. We still gonna have that depth in next season too, it's not impossible to repeat this. We need better goaltending and tighter defense next season and W's will rack up.

 

[Gniwder]

Well that's one theory and guys like Lemieux, Lindros, Forsberg, Pronger, Primeau, Deadmarsh, Franzen, Daze, Horton, Couturier, Seabrook, Backes, Kesler, Öhlund, Hatcher, Clowe, Souray, Krupp never got injured.

That was a different era. Back then teams didn't even draft players shorter than 5'11". It's funny you throw those names out when size mattered even more back then. Smaller players went the college route because they knew they wouldn't get signed.

Long before McPhee (5'10" 170lbs) became a GM, he won the Hobey Baker. He played 115 NHL games. Bruce Boudreau wasn't always fat, he weighed in at 170lbs and played 141 games, while averaging half a point per game. Back then that wasn't enough reason to keep a small guy on the roster, Bruce was pretty much an AHL all star his entire career.

 

[ricky0034]

Well that's one theory and guys like Lemieux, Lindros, Forsberg, Pronger, Primeau, Deadmarsh, Franzen, Daze, Horton, Couturier, Seabrook, Backes, Kesler, Öhlund, Hatcher, Clowe, Souray, Krupp never got injured.

And who's the current NHL ironman? Andrew Cogliano, 5'10'' & 179lbs

Offense costs money and you can add PP2 role in there too. Kakko or Turcotte doesn't provide the shot what Sprong brings. Sprong will be cheaper than any UFA in that point scale.

We have high offensive guys Cat, Ray who's flood gates are just opening, Larkin PPG and now Kane is healthy too. Depth scorer like Sprong adding 40-50 points and im interested to see what Berggren can do next season. Ras, Compher and Copp in 40-point territory. We still gonna have that depth in next season too, it's not impossible to repeat this. We need better goaltending and tighter defense next season and W's will rack up.

i'm actually shocked that he's apparently still around

if you'd asked me 5 minutes ago I would have sworn he retired like a decade ago

 

[SantosHalper]

That was a different era. Back then teams didn't even draft players shorter than 5'11". It's funny you throw those names out when size mattered even more back then. Smaller players went the college route because they knew they wouldn't get signed.

Different era? Couturier still plays, Backes, Kesler, Seabrook retired just few years ago and it ain't too long when Franzen and Horton played.

My point was that injuries happen to all size&shapes, it's ridiculous to claim that only small players gets injured.

 

[Gniwder]

Different era? Couturier still plays, Backes, Kesler, Seabrook retired just few years ago and it ain't too long when Franzen and Horton played.

My point was that injuries happen to all size&shapes, it's ridiculous to claim that only small players gets injured.

Nice strawman, where did I say ONLY small players get injured? Hockey is a contact sport, everyone gets injured at one point or another, having a size disadvantage makes it worse. They know it, that's why most smaller players play the perimeter game.

I feel like I'm talking to people who've never played contact sports....

 

[norrisnick]

Marco busted his kneecap. Just like Ras did. I'm thinking size had nothing to do with either injury.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

You don't pay for a pending UFA, let alone Hanafin. Good thing Yzerman knows that. not worried about this as some jobber team will overpay.

 

[Gniwder]

Marco busted his kneecap. Just like Ras did. I'm thinking size had nothing to do with either injury.

If Raz was shorter and Marco was taller, it wouldn't have hit their knee cap, lol. I thought he missed a game after getting punched in the face by Mantha. It was preseason so maybe just his turn to sit, but I remember him looking a bit dazed. Regardless, Kasper didn't look like he belonged in the NHL, and I don't get excited about prospects until they show something against NHL players.

Right now, Ed, Burger and Danielson are my top prospects, that won't change until next preseason.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

Traded 4 Hanifin

He's a UFA . What's the obsession with paying for a UFA lol. NHL is weird lol.

 

[FMichael]

You don't pay for a pending UFA, let alone Hanafin. Good thing Yzerman knows that. not worried about this as some jobber team will overpay.

I guess that would depend upon how interested said GM is in making the playoffs and what the cost would be.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

He's a UFA . What's the obsession with paying for a UFA lol. NHL is weird lol.

If only...if only you were allowed to negotiate a contract extension as part if the trade

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

He's a UFA . What's the obsession with paying for a UFA lol. NHL is weird lol.

Yzerman doesn't trade for Hanifin if he can't resign him. Yzerman will pay an extra 2nd for the right to negotiate an extension before any trade.

 

[SantosHalper]

Nice strawman, where did I say ONLY small players get injured? Hockey is a contact sport, everyone gets injured at one point or another, having a size disadvantage makes it worse. They know it, that's why most smaller players play the perimeter game.

I feel like I'm talking to people who've never played contact sports....

Feel free to nitpick all you want over my choice words but you still said this and there is not any truth in it.

Interesting how smaller guys tend to get injured, isn't it?

Cat is one of the smallest players in the league and he hasn't missed a game in years. And 6'3'' Sergachyev just had season ending injury, and Nolan Patrick & Samuel Morin retired recently. Size doesn't mean anything when your bones break or CTE kicks in. And we have seen plenty of smaller grittier players Verbeek, Fleury, Tikkanen, Domi, Komarov, Marchand, Gallagher, Gallant, Pavelski, Oshie, Draper, Clutterbuck, Cizikas.

Funny how we are talking about this because Kasper is 6'1'', not a small player and he is still 19-years old. A child basically, so it's not a surprise that he isn't 200lbs yet. Mazur is 6'0'', very average height but he is still lightweight but a strong lightweight. Mazur himself knows this and is working it, some bodies just mature later.

And bro, i've played hockey and i trained in judo in my early teens. I also use to spar my cousin when he was still boxing and i grew up with 3 older brothers. And i've been hit in face by exploding concrete hose. I've had at least 2 concussions and skin is the only thing what keeps my right ankle still attached to my body. I know what contact sports is all about.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Looking at Sabres-Ducks game before I can see why Yzerman would be intrested in Vatrano.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

If only...if only you were allowed to negotiate a contract extension as part if the trade

A 2nd sure. But never a first lol

 

[letsgowings9999]

Offense costs money and you can add PP2 role in there too. Kakko or Turcotte doesn't provide the shot what Sprong brings. Sprong will be cheaper than any UFA in that point scale.

We have high offensive guys Cat, Ray who's flood gates are just opening, Larkin PPG and now Kane is healthy too. Depth scorer like Sprong adding 40-50 points and im interested to see what Berggren can do next season. Ras, Compher and Copp in 40-point territory. We still gonna have that depth in next season too, it's not impossible to repeat this. We need better goaltending and tighter defense next season and W's will rack up.

Yes it does ,unless you draft them or get someone through a trade who underachieved prior which is why I suggest such moves

Sprong has been a pleasant surprise but hes a bottom line who's racking up 40-50pts not type of player I'm thinking

We definitely need better defense,half of them gotta go somehow . Goaltending I'd say its back to husso and Lyon again unless we eat a chunk of husso's money and dont see it happening

 

[SantosHalper]

Yes it does ,unless you draft them or get someone through a trade who underachieved prior which is why I suggest such moves

Sprong has been a pleasant surprise but hes a bottom line who's racking up 40-50pts not type of player I'm thinking

Very true but Sprong is still relatively cheap 4 million a year and Wings know what he can deliver. Where someone like Turcotte is a complete question mark, trading Sprong away and trading for Turcotte would be negative asset management.

How's that a bad thing, that bottom-6 player racks up 40-50 points? Do you really want to keep tanking? That ship has sailed, 2 years ago. Being bad intentionally would ruin the culture what management has been building since day 1.

Wings have 2nd or 3rd most comeback wins in the league and i believe GR is also high on that list in AHL. That speaks of right culture and high character.

Larkin, Ray, Cat, Kane and Seider alone will keep Wings away from the basement. Give them more ammo, do not take it away from them.