Trade Ideas

[TCNorthstars]

He has more offense I think. But both shouldn't be very expensive.

Veleno doesn't have more offense. Their PPG are nearly identical this year (Ras is better for career). Veleno has 3 PPP and Ras has 4 SHP. Similar offense, but Ras is better a defensive player and more physical. You're right on the shouldn't be very expensive, but Ras will get more.

 

[NYR Viper]

What's the deal with Vrana? He scores when in the NHL and AHL but he's been demoted

 

[Detroit Knights]

He can take 5 years off the ice and still not be as slow as Perron, who's playing on the top line. Plus it's literally zero risk other than his salary. But I've already said it's low probability.

I just don't see a trade out there that Stevie would do.... is there a McDonagh type player out there on the trading block? I don't see Hanifin fitting the bill, and all I see are marginal upgrades over Holl like Zaitsev or Tanev.

The other need is a top line winger, but Guentzel and Tank are gonna have very hefty price tags.

IF we are honest with ourselves....a line of DBC - toews - kane would be pretty hilarious to watch.

 

[lilidk]

March 8 is NHL trade deadline.

 

[Winger98]

I don't think Red Wings can afford that contract, without somebody like Chiarot going in the other direction which is not happening. In order to re-sign Seider, Raymond, Rasmussen, Veleno you already need to put 22 mil aside. Then you need to replace Perron and re-sign Kane. And then Ekblad needs to be re-signed after next season as well.

If Yzerman can pull in a guy like that, I think we have the cap space to force it to work one way or another. Maybe someone gets bought out, maybe Stevie deals someone, I don't know. But I do know Yzerman has a history of being a very adept dealer. I also think this is something where if you can make it happen, you do it, and sort out the smaller pieces later.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Just for information purposes....I mean, I know the answer, obviously, but for the people in the back that don't know....

Can you buyout a player then sign them to a new deal, presumably cheaper? Or is that in the CBA for cap circumvention? It's obviously cap circumvention but so is LTIR for certain aspects as we all know.

 

[Gniwder]

You can compare Rasmussen to Copp, but then you should compare 24-year old RFA Copp to 24-year old Rasmussen.

2023-24 season 24-year old Rasmussen has played 50 games, scored 10+12=22 points (0.44 pt/g), is team-leading +13, and has played 15:14min TOI.

2018-19 season 24-year old Copp played 69 games, scored 11+14=25 points (0.36 pt/g), was team-leading +20, and played 12:10min TOI.
- He got 2-year deal worth 2.300M.

- Copp deal was signed against 81.5M cap at 2019 off-season.
- Ras deal will be signed against 87.5M cap at 2024 off-season (7.36% higher value)

Rasmussen has better production and higher ice-time than 24-year old Copp at 2018-19. When taking these in account, and also taking that cap factor in account, that 2.3M is modified to --> 3.01M.

This is not far from the older evolving-hockey estimate.
- Michael Rasmussen, 2-year RFA extension, ~3.01M.

I said that tongue in cheek (I was joking).

But I like your estimate, sound about right. It's the term that will be interesting. Raz appears to be regaining his form from last season before the injury, if he can work on leveraging and edge work, $3M is a good deal. If he regresses over the summer again, then Stevie will be kicking himself.

I don't like to see long term deal for players like Raz. I'm not gonna guess the term, we'll see what Stevie does.

 

[stillwater]

What's the deal with Vrana? He scores when in the NHL and AHL but he's been demoted

Maybe you should ask that on the Blues board.

 

[Snuggs]

Just for information purposes....I mean, I know the answer, obviously, but for the people in the back that don't know....

Can you buyout a player then sign them to a new deal, presumably cheaper? Or is that in the CBA for cap circumvention? It's obviously cap circumvention but so is LTIR for certain aspects as we all know.

You can, 1 year later.

Really, it's a yes and no.

 

[Detroit Knights]

You can, 1 year later.

Really, it's a yes and no.

what if you buy them out, they sign with team x and you trade future considerations for them at their current aav? Their buyout contract is 4 mil aav and their new contract is 1 mil aav, saves you 3 mil and now everyone is happy!

Screw the other team, that doesn't matter for this discussion.....

 

[Snuggs]

Teams that buyout a players contract will obtain a reduced salary cap hit over a period of twice the remaining length of the contract.

So pretty much no, you won't save 4 million buying out a guy with a 4 million salary. It'll depend on how many years he's got on his contract and then you do a thing called the buyout multiplier, which if you're over 26 is 67% of your contract value in upfront cash. The new cash value is now divided by the years of the contract (multiplied by 2) and that'll be the boughten out players cap hit for those years.

Example: Player X has 1 year 4 million on his contract. League rules state the Team buys him out at 67% of 4 million, which is 2.68 million. Player X had 1 year remaning so we multiple that 1 remaining year by 2 to account for the extra time needed/required to spread out the reduced cap hit. The buyout number (2.68) is then divided by the 2 (the years required to spread out the new cap hit), which is 1.34 million.

So, of the original 4 million, you'd save 2.66 million that year, and then the follwoing year carry an additional 1.34 million without player X on your roster. I guess Theoretically you could get another team to sign him for 1 million or minimum after a buyout and trade him back to you for value. In this specific case you only saved 2.66 million in the season, so assuming he was resigned for 1 million and traded back to the Red Wings, they'd save 1.66 million.

Basically though, this will never happen. It might even be collusion if Red Wings suggest to another team to sign player X for the sole purpose to trade back to the team that originally traded him at a reduced rate/cap hit.

 

[Bench]

Hanifin watch officially on. His agents are meeting with Calgary in the coming days.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-flames-uncertain-hanifin-situation-coming-to-a-h~2861904

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

maatta to tampa?

 

[Ricelund]

Hanifin watch officially on. His agents are meeting with Calgary in the coming days.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-flames-uncertain-hanifin-situation-coming-to-a-h~2861904

 

[SantosHalper]

Something around Knies and a 2nd?

Easy yes, it's a deal.

 

[Electric Eric]

What's the deal with Vrana? He scores when in the NHL and AHL but he's been demoted

He screwing up your fantasy season or something?

Probably get more up to date info from the Blues forum but its probably the same thing from when he was here. Streaky goal scorer with some mental struggles that he's dealing with.

 

[Henkka]

Vrana has collapsed pretty bad. 2 goals at this season, in 21 games. -7

He probably has some big problems behind the scenes. And can't get over them.

 

[Snuggs]

Thoughts on moving on from Elmer? Man, as a Leafs fan I would kill to have a guy like that on my team. Size, speed, mitts... seems like he will never get a real opportunity to showcase his skills in Detroit though. In Toronto however, he would be playing 3C right now. I know Steven probably doesn't want to trade him, but I'm asking all of you Wings homers, what would it take? I see a lot of Slafkovsky/Ponikarovsky in Elmer, he will be a good 2nd liner for years to come, that's for sure. Something around Knies and a 2nd?

Easy yes, What does it take? Idk honestly, Red Wings need help now and idk prospects in that system outside of Robertson and he's NHL ready for you guys now who are also competing. Might take a 2nd round pick straight up, even then, it's a toss-up on if it's actually a good idea to move on from Soderblom for that. Red Wings need a roster player, preferably for long-term, and idk who that guy is on TORONTO. Red Wings can get it/that trading him somewhere else for someone else as a package.

He's soft. Throws hits but doesn't take them back well. He is a big dude and leaves himself vulnerable a lot with hits, especially from smaller players. Could be learned to avoid those with time, but some people just are 'lanky and awkward', and he seems to fit that mold/body type. Moves like a moose more than a gazelle.

By-the-by he doesn't play center and isn't that great at faceoffs.

If he could work on his skating/short footwork, he'd be a lot better, in shorter space/ice. Quickness kills him.

Still possible he can be a consistent 30-point player in the league, possible power play specialist, he's got great hands, bad net front presences even with the size and even being used there a lot. Better as a playmaker than scorer. Really needs to work on skating to be anything more than a PP specialist imo right now. He's a liability 5on5 defensively/quickness in short space, even with the length. Like I said, think Moose vs Gazelle.

For the Maple Leafs, idk where he'd fit to be honest, you guys need someone like Cal Clutterbuck. lol. Grit with speed. I guess he'd make your already good PP even better, which matters in the playoffs.

 

[raymond23]

Thoughts on moving on from Elmer? Man, as a Leafs fan I would kill to have a guy like that on my team. Size, speed, mitts... seems like he will never get a real opportunity to showcase his skills in Detroit though. In Toronto however, he would be playing 3C right now. I know Steven probably doesn't want to trade him, but I'm asking all of you Wings homers, what would it take? I see a lot of Slafkovsky/Ponikarovsky in Elmer, he will be a good 2nd liner for years to come, that's for sure. Something around Knies and a 2nd?

I would hate if we moved on from Elmer, even tho he's been disappointing in Grand Rapids

 

[Snuggs]

I would hate if we moved on from Elmer, even tho he's been disappointing in Grand Rapids

You don't even know what you're getting back yet, and you hate it?

Like I hate it for a mid-round pick or a prospect swap but If I can get a top six winger now. Yeah, I'm doing it, he doesn't fit with this team. Like Yzerman will never pay him(yet), he's not going to get time over prospects like Mazuer even let alone Kasper/Danielson and guys like Buch/Savage have better projected roles on this team than Elmer. So that's 5 prospects with better roles/fits/projects outside of the guys on the roster.

I'm not sure he's a flop but, he's not fitting the picture, and it's Yzerman's responsibility to not let him walk for free and gain some value out of him if he's not in the long-term plans.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Hanifin watch officially on. His agents are meeting with Calgary in the coming days.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-flames-uncertain-hanifin-situation-coming-to-a-h~2861904

I'm counting on Hanifin getting traded somewhere he's going to sign long term.

Potentials:
Tampa (especially after the Sergachev incident but they're low on assets.)
Toronto (but who do they give up?)
Philadelphia
New Jersey (if they decide to really make a push.)
Florida (not sure what they give up though. They're also low on assets.)
Detroit (only if Calgary helps clear up the logjam on D.)

This site does a good job of showing what Hanifin's trade cost would be comparable to.

What could a Noah Hanifin trade return look like for the Calgary Flames?

For a guy that becomes Detroit's instant #2 defender that's not a ton to give up.

Detroit's 1st in 2024, 2nd in 2025, Gostisbehere + Wallinder

for Hanifin + 4th

Or

Detroit's 1st in 2024, 2nd in 2025, 2nd in 2026 + Maatta

For Hanifin + 4th

I think that's fair value when you look at the chart.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I'm counting on Hanifin getting traded somewhere he's going to sign long term.

Potentials:
Tampa (especially after the Sergachev incident but they're low on assets.)
Toronto (but who do they give up?)
Philadelphia
New Jersey (if they decide to really make a push.)
Florida (not sure what they give up though. They're also low on assets.)
Detroit (only if Calgary helps clear up the logjam on D.)

This site does a good job of showing what Hanifin's trade cost would be comparable to.

What could a Noah Hanifin trade return look like for the Calgary Flames?

View attachment 816364

For a guy that becomes Detroit's instant #2 defender that's not a ton to give up.

Detroit's 1st in 2024, 2nd in 2025, Gostisbehere + Wallinder

for Hanifin + 4th

Or

Detroit's 1st in 2024, 2nd in 2025, 2nd in 2026 + Maatta

For Hanifin + 4th

I think that's fair value when you look at the chart.

I'd take the 2nd in 2025 off and add ghost and keep the rest (bolded). They get ghost to flip again for more return on hanifin and they get maatta to stay for another year to help their lack of defense (quantity wise). If people around here are being truthful, ghost is around a 2nd round pick so that would clear that up and we get to keep our 1st and 2nd next year and by 2026, that second should be pretty low.

edit: this means we bring up edvinsson and have a left side of walman - hanifin - edvinsson. That would be insane in of itself but then you add seider et al to the right and we are looking like something to believe in

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'd take the 2nd in 2025 off and add ghost and keep the rest (bolded). They get ghost to flip again for more return on hanifin and they get maatta to stay for another year to help their lack of defense (quantity wise). If people around here are being truthful, ghost is around a 2nd round pick so that would clear that up and we get to keep our 1st and 2nd next year and by 2026, that second should be pretty low.

edit: this means we bring up edvinsson and have a left side of walman - hanifin - edvinsson. That would be insane in of itself but then you add seider et al to the right and we are looking like something to believe in

You can't trade Ghost AND Maatta at the same time. That's counter to the depth Yzerman is trying to build with the team.

And I don't want to give Draper anymore 2nd round picks. Since 2016 here's Detroit's 2nd round picks.

Givani Smith
Filip Hronek
Gustav Lindstrom (literally the pick before Jason Robertson)
Jonny Burgers
Jared McIsaac
Antti Tuomisto (looks like he's turning it around but still not great)
Robert Mastrosimone
Albert Johansson
William Wallinder
Theodor Niederbach
Cross Hanas
Shai Buium
Dylan James
Dmitri Buchelnikov
Trey Augustine
Andrew Gibson
Brady Cleveland

17 picks. 1 full time NHLer in Hronek, 1 soon to be fulltime NHLer in Burgers, 1 high potential scoring winger prospect, 1 high potential goalie prospect. The rest...well...the Wings could have done better.

 

[Detroit Knights]

You can't trade Ghost AND Maatta at the same time. That's counter to the depth Yzerman is trying to build with the team.

And I don't want to give Draper anymore 2nd round picks. Since 2016 here's Detroit's 2nd round picks.

Givani Smith
Filip Hronek
Gustav Lindstrom (literally the pick before Jason Robertson)
Jonny Burgers
Jared McIsaac
Antti Tuomisto (looks like he's turning it around but still not great)
Robert Mastrosimone
Albert Johansson
William Wallinder
Theodor Niederbach
Cross Hanas
Shai Buium
Dylan James
Dmitri Buchelnikov
Trey Augustine
Andrew Gibson
Brady Cleveland

17 picks. 1 full time NHLer in Hronek, 1 soon to be fulltime NHLer in Burgers, 1 high potential scoring winger prospect, 1 high potential goalie prospect. The rest...well...the Wings could have done better.

This is what we currently have (don't mind the pairings):

walman - seider
chiarot - ghost
maatta - holl/petry

By trading maatta and ghost, this is what we would have (in this hypothetical trade of course):

Walman - Seider
Hanifin - Petry
Edvinsson - Chiarot/Holl

So we still have the depth. Literally the same amount of players on defense. We lose a callup in Edvinsson, but we replace him with aljo/wallinder/tuomisto in that order. So we still have the depth.

edit: and I thought we all agreed that bringing up drafting lindstrom the pick before robertson was a cause of vietnam flashbacks ptsd that we weren't supposed to say anymore. no shame from you i see....dic*

 

[norrisnick]

Olli of 2024 is back to Olli from 2022 (up to Dec 6th). That bout of pneumonia completely tanked his 2023. I want to keep that Olli.