Speculation: Trade, FA & Rumours (Mod warning OP)

[Joe Hallenback]

You don't move on players when you are coming off your best season and having another good season. I just don't get that. Its hard enough to get players to come here outside the draft you just don't move on them for some magic beans.

 

[surixon]

Just curious as to who you would've moved out?
Oduya, Ponikarovsky, Ladd & Stafford were all dealt.
Hainsey could only get a PTO after he left here, Antropov never played in the NHL again, nor did Jim Slater, Kyle Wellwood or Tim Stapleton. I can't see a market for those players. Olli Jokinen ended up playing for three teams the next year and was done in the league, don't really think he was an option to anyone either.

Top 9 centers always return a decent amount at the deadline. Jokinen was producing at a second line level for us that year so he would have garnered a 2nd and a prospect imo.

Depth dmen are still valuable see Morrow, Beau for us. We should have been able to get a mid round pick or two.

Antropov, big depth center producing decent points returns a 2nd or 3rd round pick imo.

We move those three and imo we come out with a couple of 2nd round picks, a prospect and maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

[tbcwpg]

I like stealing the other guy's candy a lot more than I like having my candy stolen.

I agree that there is value in not having dead cap on the roster, or players who are simply overpaid. It is the method of dealing with that that I don't like. Perreault should have been traded 2 years ago, when he still had some value, even if it wasn't much.

I think that has been a failure of Chevy's. He needs to be better at recognizing when it is time to recoup some value on players as they age. He should have traded Myers at that same time. He got lucky when Ladd turned down the offer. Can't judge the Little extension fairly because of injury, but it wasn't looking great. The jury is still out on the Wheeler extension. It is looking good so far but it has 4 more years to go.

I don't agree with looking at assets solely on what you can get with them when you're approaching free agency. Myers was just fine up until he left, fading, but fine, at least better than the replacements that would've played in his spot. It's balancing keeping the team at a competitive level with asset management, to me. You can't always get stuff back for expiring FAs.

 

[Whileee]

I think the only way you get Hamilton is to trade for him and then hope he likes the fit, team and organization and wants to stay. Unlikely Winnipeg will be on his radar if/when he is a UFA and he is getting offers from across the league.

Way too much risk to trade for him and try to persuade him. The only alternative might be to have the option to negotiate with him before trading for him, as Vegas did with Stone.

 

[Oilpeg]

Top 9 centers always return a decent amount at the deadline. Jokinen was producing at a second line level for us that year so he would have garnered a 2nd and a prospect imo.

Depth dmen are still valuable see Morrow, Beau for us. We should have been able to get a mid round pick or two.

Antropov, big depth center producing decent points returns a 2nd or 3rd round pick imo.

We move those three and imo we come out with a couple of 2nd round picks, a prospect and maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Yeah, maybe...I don't know though. Good reply though.

 

[KingBogo]

Way too much risk to trade for him and try to persuade him. The only alternative might be to have the option to negotiate with him before trading for him, as Vegas did with Stone.

I think the Jets would get to talk to him first but I can't see him being willing to commit long term without playing for the organization first. This may be a bridge too far for Chevy, but at some point he just might have to take on some risk.

 

[Whileee]

I think the Jets would get to talk to him first but I can't see him being willing to commit long term without playing for the organization first. This may be a bridge too far for Chevy, but at some point he just might have to take on some risk.

I don't mind some risk, but acquiring Hamilton at this point would likely require a high price of key assets, and the Jets simply cannot afford to spend those without assurance that the long-term value is commensurate. The Arizona Coyotes' acquisition of Taylor Hall is a cautionary tale. They gave up a strong futures package and have nothing to show for it several months later. The Jets would be better to either spend those assets on a more secure long-term position, make a trade conditional on agreement on a long-term deal, or try to use their cap space to acquire players via free agency.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't see as much value in Armia as you do, but I don't disagree that he would be an upgrade in our bottom 6. What I'd really like to see is an upgrade beyond Armia.

Of course.

The thing is, I might have traded Armia too, rather than keeping him as things stood at that time. But we could have gotten something good in return.

With the disadvantages Winnipeg has, we need to be that much more careful to extract full value from the assets we have.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree with a lot of this although I wonder if there is some of that small town Winnipeg mentality here in that he doesn't want to move players when the team is winning or in contention for a playoff spot in order not to piss the room off.

I don't know the internal dynamics but I would have been a bit more aggressive moving out expiring pieces especially early in our tenure.

I expect that is a consideration. But I doubt the room reacts poorly when they see assets being turned over for younger assets. There would probably be an initial negative reaction, especially from those players closest to the ones who are gone. I think they would get over that pretty quickly though. They all know it is a business and they all know that the team always needs to have one eye on the money and the other one on the future.

Moving out pending UFA's, like Myers and declining players like Perreault would be seen differently than moving out core pieces. If a core player was moved, the players would want to see a return that helps in the short term, as well as longer and as well as just a cap/cost relief.

 

[Whileee]

I didn't like seeing the Jets give up Armia as part of a cap dump, but they were also looking at their roster and likely considered Roslovic as a more-than-adequate replacement. Looking at performance metrics, there is some justification for that assessment. In the year prior to trading Armia (2017/18) and the year after the trade (2018/19), Roslovic was a stronger contributor overall than Armia. In 2019/20, Roslovic took a step back, as did most Jets.

Also, until last season Roslovic's adjusted shot metrics and goal metrics were better than Armia's.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't agree with looking at assets solely on what you can get with them when you're approaching free agency. Myers was just fine up until he left, fading, but fine, at least better than the replacements that would've played in his spot. It's balancing keeping the team at a competitive level with asset management, to me. You can't always get stuff back for expiring FAs.

In general, I agree. But Myers was not playing all that well. I think his market value would have exceeded his actual on ice value. He was perceived as being better than he was. The contract he signed as a UFA confirmed that.

You don't look at them solely in terms of the potential return. You look at a balance. I said at the time that those 2 moves should be made. I think events since have supported that opinion. There is no way to prove or disprove my estimations of what we would have got in trade. I still think my proposals were realistic. But even without the returns I hoped for, we would have been able to keep Armia and the 2 picks that went with him. And we would have had several chances to make good use of the cap space freed up after Stastny moved on.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I expect that is a consideration. But I doubt the room reacts poorly when they see assets being turned over for younger assets. There would probably be an initial negative reaction, especially from those players closest to the ones who are gone. I think they would get over that pretty quickly though. They all know it is a business and they all know that the team always needs to have one eye on the money and the other one on the future.

Moving out pending UFA's, like Myers and declining players like Perreault would be seen differently than moving out core pieces. If a core player was moved, the players would want to see a return that helps in the short term, as well as longer and as well as just a cap/cost relief.

Sorry to be jumping in mid-convo, maybe I missed something. If I were a Jets player and saw the team trading away players for futures as soon as the team is finally contending I would feel like the team isn't serious about winning and look to go to a more competitive team. I'm referring more to Myers, I think Perreault has negative value the last couple years at least and wouldn't have been easy to move.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sorry to be jumping in mid-convo, maybe I missed something. If I were a Jets player and saw the team trading away players for futures as soon as the team is finally contending I would feel like the team isn't serious about winning and look to go to a more competitive team. I'm referring more to Myers, I think Perreault has negative value the last couple years at least and wouldn't have been easy to move.

And Myers, at that time was a pending UFA.

I would never have described him as a core player, but he was on the edge there so some people/players might have seen that differently. But I believe the players would have been aware of his shortcomings as well as his contract situation.

If players are going to judge every move by management that harshly and rigidly, then there is no hope. We either have to forego making positive roster building moves or risk losing the players we have. The potential reactions of the room/players is brought up here endlessly, to justify failures to do what is necessary to build a winner. Chevy can't allow himself to manage based on that fear. It would be paralyzing.

 

[KingBogo]

And Myers, at that time was a pending UFA.

I would never have described him as a core player, but he was on the edge there so some people/players might have seen that differently. But I believe the players would have been aware of his shortcomings as well as his contract situation.

If players are going to judge every move by management that harshly and rigidly, then there is no hope. We either have to forego making positive roster building moves or risk losing the players we have. The potential reactions of the room/players is brought up here endlessly, to justify failures to do what is necessary to build a winner. Chevy can't allow himself to manage based on that fear. It would be paralyzing.

The year after we went to the conference final I think it was reasonable for Chevy to keep the team together in hopes of another cup run, though a little trimming around the edges wouldn't have been a bad idea. But now we have had 2 years were we have regressed and IMO Chevy can't be content on holding onto a bubble spot waiting on draft picks to develop. Again IMO it is now time to shake things up a bit.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The year after we went to the conference final I think it was reasonable for Chevy to keep the team together in hopes of another cup run, though a little trimming around the edges wouldn't have been a bad idea. But now we have had 2 years were we have regressed and IMO Chevy can't be content on holding onto a bubble spot waiting on draft picks to develop. Again IMO it is now time to shake things up a bit.

I get that. Some would have considered it breaking up a winning combination. How did keeping it together work out?

I don't think trading MP and Myers would have cost us much, if anything. But if they had been traded and the season had turned out exactly as it actually did, at least half the people here would have blamed that for the drop off in performance.

After Stastny did not sign with us, we could have used that cap space to try to improve the roster. Maybe we could have acquired a Dman who would have contributed more than Myers did. I could speculate all day on the possibilities. The one thing I can say without speculating is that keeping them was not worth what losing what we didn't get, regardless of what it was.

 

[KingBogo]

I get that. Some would have considered it breaking up a winning combination. How did keeping it together work out?

I don't think trading MP and Myers would have cost us much, if anything. But if they had been traded and the season had turned out exactly as it actually did, at least half the people here would have blamed that for the drop off in performance.

After Stastny did not sign with us, we could have used that cap space to try to improve the roster. Maybe we could have acquired a Dman who would have contributed more than Myers did. I could speculate all day on the possibilities. The one thing I can say without speculating is that keeping them was not worth what losing what we didn't get, regardless of what it was.

I would have been open to moving either or both of MP or Myers at the time, but of course I also advocated trading Trouba after he signed his bridge deal. No doubt it is a difficult task knowing the best time to pull the trigger on a player. We also don't know what discussions GMs have with each other and if Chevy would have made a trade with the right offer. What I hope is Chevy feels less comfortable in his position and is starting to feel more pressure to get back to contender status.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I would have been open to moving either or both of MP or Myers at the time, but of course I also advocated trading Trouba after he signed his bridge deal. No doubt it is a difficult task knowing the best time to pull the trigger on a player. We also don't know what discussions GMs have with each other and if Chevy would have made a trade with the right offer. What I hope is Chevy feels less comfortable in his position and is starting to feel more pressure to get back to contender status.

I'll drink to that.

 

[surixon]

I would have been open to moving either or both of MP or Myers at the time, but of course I also advocated trading Trouba after he signed his bridge deal. No doubt it is a difficult task knowing the best time to pull the trigger on a player. We also don't know what discussions GMs have with each other and if Chevy would have made a trade with the right offer. What I hope is Chevy feels less comfortable in his position and is starting to feel more pressure to get back to contender status.

Yes everyone in this org should be feeling some pressure to get back to winning and playing real good hockey.

 

[Buffdog]

The year after we went to the conference final I think it was reasonable for Chevy to keep the team together in hopes of another cup run, though a little trimming around the edges wouldn't have been a bad idea. But now we have had 2 years were we have regressed and IMO Chevy can't be content on holding onto a bubble spot waiting on draft picks to develop. Again IMO it is now time to shake things up a bit.

I think chevy gets a mulligan on last year because of the buff and little situations. Any time you lose your 1RD and 2C within the first month or so of the season, you're gonna struggle.

 

[Teemusalami204]

I think chevy gets a mulligan on last year because of the buff and little situations. Any time you lose your 1RD and 2C within the first month or so of the season, you're gonna struggle.

I don’t agree. I think if Chevy did anything to improve the defence and give us a shot at winning buff would of had more passion to come back.

We are just as good without Little in the line up. Not because he isn’t a good player but where he plays kills our 2nd line.

 

[KingBogo]

I don’t agree. I think if Chevy did anything to improve the defence and give us a shot at winning buff would of had more passion to come back.

We are just as good without Little in the line up. Not because he isn’t a good player but where he plays kills our 2nd line.

Nothing disclosed so far indicates that Buff wasn’t making decisions on what he alone wanted to do. Improving the defensive had no impact on his choices. He wanted to quit hockey and that is what he did.

 

[Buffdog]

I don’t agree. I think if Chevy did anything to improve the defence and give us a shot at winning buff would of had more passion to come back.

We are just as good without Little in the line up. Not because he isn’t a good player but where he plays kills our 2nd line.

How would he have improved the defense? He hardly had enough cap space to sign connor to a long term deal and laine to a bridge

 

[Teemusalami204]

How would he have improved the defense? He hardly had enough cap space to sign connor to a long term deal and laine to a bridge

Who’s job is it to make sure there’s enough cap space?

 

[Whileee]

Who’s job is it to make sure there’s enough cap space?

I doubt it was a cap issue. My guess is that the Jets and Laine couldn't agree on value on a long term deal. If they had, they could have cleared the necessary cap space to make it work. They would have had that contingency available in case of having to match an offer sheet, in any case.

 

[Teemusalami204]

I doubt it was a cap issue. My guess is that the Jets and Laine couldn't agree on value on a long term deal. If they had, they could have cleared the necessary cap space to make it work. They would have had that contingency available in case of having to match an offer sheet, in any case.

I thought we were taking about losing so much Dmen and just going with what we had.

I’m confused now lol