Trade, FA and Rumours 2022/23

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surixon

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Does anyone really see the Jets moving any of Pionk/Dillion/Schmidt right now? I don't . Could be Stanley/Samberg from the roster but do either of those do anything for Ottawa or return us something of value? Maybe its Heinola, disgruntled and likely ready for a NHL role but is he some one Ottawa would want. Where would he play in the lineup?

They are already breaking in Sandstrom on their second pairing and have Chabot on the first. They really don't have a top LD spot for him. Factor in that they have Branstrom in the lineup that does what Ville does and I don't see a fit.
 

Buffdog

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Does anyone really see the Jets moving any of Pionk/Dillion/Schmidt right now? I don't . Could be Stanley/Samberg from the roster but do either of those do anything for Ottawa or return us something of value? Maybe its Heinola, disgruntled and likely ready for a NHL role but is he some one Ottawa would want. Where would he play in the lineup?
Yup. When a team starts 8-3-1, don't f*** with the roster. Demelo and Schmitt are 2 of the 3 d that we have who are comfortable on the right side

Maybe Dillon but I just don't see it unless they think Samberg can slot up to 2nd pairing and Stanley and/or heinola can step into the 3rd pairing
 

DRW204

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keep dillon-schmidt together

1668108472151.png
 

gojetsgo

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brossoit had a .895 last year and makes 2.35 million he's coming off an injury and during his conditioning stint he put up a .769 sv%
 
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DRW204

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brossoit has been 901 his last 3 seasons since the 18-19 season. i do think brossoit>rittich, but brossoit cap-hit is expensive.... we do have adequate space though but would basically lose any sort of cap flexibility w/ brossoit on the books. i would like to see Helle spelled a bit more to keep him fresher for the POs but dont think it should be for a 2.3M back up


I would welcome LB back, if he makes it that far on the waiver wire.
 
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CorgisPer60

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brossoit has been 901 his last 3 seasons since the 18-19 season. i do think brossoit>rittich, but brossoit cap-hit is expensive.... we do have adequate space though but would basically lose any sort of cap flexibility w/ brossoit on the books. i would like to see Helle spelled a bit more to keep him fresher for the POs but dont think it should be for a 2.3M back up

Yeah, I don't see a waiver claim at all. That's too much money for backup, when they have Rittich making just over league minimum right now. He'll pass waivers and get sent down to Henderson.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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I mean wait until he is a UFA theu can make it happen.

I don't like how we are allowing ourselves to get painted further into a corner the longer it goes.

How come we are talking prospects and picks for PLD and Trouba's case but Calgary can get mature 2 players.
Riddle me that ?

It is after he becomes UFA that I'm talking about. They don't get him automatically. They still need to pay up and that means they need to have cap space. They may try to lowball him. Or they may not even try.

Edit: Calgary was not limited to just one landing spot. Very different circumstances.
 

KingBogo

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Does anyone really see the Jets moving any of Pionk/Dillion/Schmidt right now? I don't . Could be Stanley/Samberg from the roster but do either of those do anything for Ottawa or return us something of value? Maybe its Heinola, disgruntled and likely ready for a NHL role but is he some one Ottawa would want. Where would he play in the lineup?
Heinola would be someone who isn't given away. There would need to be a pretty nice piece coming back.
 

snowkiddin

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Haha, yes as I said people will rage on the return just like many did with Trouba and people will say I sooner keep him and have him walk for free. Of course PLD will not walk for free, Jets will not get some amazing mind blowing return and Chevy will take the best return he can get which will be underwhelming bc he has very little leverage. Aka Troubda 2.0
Don’t know if it’s “raging” on the return but trading Dubois for Dvorak, who is a significant downgrade and is only under team control for one more year, a mid-round pick, and a meh prospect is lunacy and should be met with scorn, IMO.

If the Jets are aiming to contend, it makes more sense to hold on to Dubois rather than to flip him for a worse roster player when the additional assets (a meh prospect and a mid-round pick) aren’t worth the trade off of losing Dubois for two playoff runs. Yeah, you have Dvorak for an additional year, but I still don’t think it’s worth it.

If we absolutely have to get something for PLD, I’d rather hold on to him this year and flip at the draft. Any team could have him as a one year rental, and you’re likely looking at a late 1st round pick and a good prospect as the return, which I would much prefer.
 

surixon

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keep dillon-schmidt together

View attachment 606115

I'm having a real hard time with the XGF model this year. It doesn't seem to match A) What I see and B) line up with any of the other metrics.

Case in point Scheifele and Perfetti have the exact same XGF but Perfetti has superior CF%, FF%, SF%, SCF%, HDCF% metrics so how do they have the same expected goals metrics? It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Also I'm not sure how Cole can be in the low 40's when he's north of 50 in terms of CF%, FF% and scoring chance %. Even if you account for him being below in terms of shots (46%) and high dangerous chances (45%) how the heck do you get 42% in terms of expected goals when the lowest single indicator he has is 45%. Logically he'd be somewhere between 46 and 50 depending on the weighting of each indicator. How you can get 42 makes zero sense.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Tkachuk is better than Trouba and Dubois, also Tkachuk reportedly gave Calgary a list whereas the only thing we've heard is Trouba wanted New York only and Dubois supposedly wants Montreal only.

Further lots of people have said Florida overpaid.

Don't necessarily agree that Tkachuk is better than Trouba or Dubois. That's another debate. He was coming off a great year though.

The rest I agree with.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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Don`t know what they might be prepared to offer us, but my guess is that they would prefer DeMelo to Schmidt. I say this based upon the fact that DeMelo really served to steady things when he was there, playing with Chabot.

I would want a huge overpay to part with DeMelo.
Schmidt or Pionk would be OK with me - though Schmidt has been playing well partnered with Dillon.

They are already breaking in Sandstrom on their second pairing and have Chabot on the first. They really don't have a top LD spot for him. Factor in that they have Branstrom in the lineup that does what Ville does and I don't see a fit.
Brannstrom doesn't do what Ville is supposed to do in the NHL. So far, he is not living up to expectations.
 

DRW204

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I'm having a real hard time with the XGF model this year. It doesn't seem to match A) What I see and B) line up with any of the other metrics.

Case in point Scheifele and Perfetti have the exact same XGF but Perfetti has superior CF%, FF%, SF%, SCF%, HDCF% metrics so how do they have the same expected goals metrics? It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Also I'm not sure how Cole can be in the low 40's when he's north of 50 in terms of CF%, FF% and scoring chance %. Even if you account for him being below in terms of shots (46%) and high dangerous chances (45%) how the heck do you get 42% in terms of expected goals when the lowest single indicator he has is 45%. Logically he'd be somewhere between 46 and 50 depending on the weighting of each indicator. How you can get 42 makes zero sense.
read on how xGF is calculated and it'll make sense. anything % is a share. 2 players can have xGF that are virtually the same even if you can have differing CF. CF is just a count of shot-attempts for, and xGF assigns a value based on criteria (shot distance, type etc.)

you can have high CF (high volume shooters) which will accumulate high xGF.... Ehlers is an example of this.
last season: individual shot attempts/60: 21.72 for individual xGF/60 = 1.

then you have players w/ lower attempts but higher xGF proportionally... players like PLD doesnt shoot a lot comparatively but closer to the net so score higher in quality
last season: iCF/60 14.01, but ixGF/60 0.97.

so on 7 less shot attempts, he's basically the same xGF. which is higher quality per attempt. makes sense as PLD made his living in front of the net (higher probability to score).

per 60 for vs against
Perfetti is 56 vs 54 for CF% of 51% share
Scheifele is 57 vs 66 for CF% 46%

per 60 xGF vs xGA
Perfetti is 2.61 vs 3.62 of xGF% 42%
Schefeifele is 2.45 vs 3.51 xGF% 41%

so when perfetti is on the ice the Jets give up lesser shot attempts in volume, but they are of higher quality (on a per attempt basis). think back to the PLD vs Ehlers example, but for the opposition.

their shot quality for is basically the same (on a per attempt basis)
 
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surixon

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read on how xGF is calculated and it'll make sense. anything % is a share. 2 players can have xGF that are virtually the same even if you can have differing CF. CF is just a count of shot-attempts for, and xGF assigns a value based on criteria (shot distance, type etc.)

you can have high CF (high volume shooters) which will accumulate high xGF.... Ehlers is an example of this.
last season: individual shot attempts/60: 21.72 for individual xGF/60 = 1.

then you have players w/ lower attempts but higher xGF proportionally... players like PLD doesnt shoot a lot comparatively but closer to the net so score higher in quality
last season: iCF/60 14.01, but ixGF/60 0.97.

so on 7 less shot attempts, he's basically the same xGF. which is higher quality per attempt. makes sense as PLD made his living in front of the net (higher probability to score).

per 60 for vs against
Perfetti is 56 vs 54 for CF% of 51% share
Scheifele is 57 vs 66 for CF% 46%

xGF
Perfetti is 2.61 vs 3.62 of xGF% 42%
Schefeifele is 2.45 vs 3.51 xGF% 41%

so when perfetti is on the ice the Jets give up lesser shot attempts, but they are of higher quality (on a per attempt basis). think back to the PLD vs Ehlers example, but for the opposition. their shot quality for is basically the same (on a per attempt basis)

I still think it is fundemtally broken though as even if he gives up higher quality as per high dangerous chances that metric is still 45% not 42% whereas Mark is 37% HDC. Even if more shots are going on with Mark on the ice he is still getting caved in to a greater extent then Cole.

I'd expect any model to resemble what is happening on the ice and XGF is not following along with any of the other metrics. It isn't at all predicting what is actually happening either Coles other metrics would predict around a 48% GF rating which when you factor in a relatively normal 101 PDO is pretty much right inline with his actual GF% of 50. So he's actually performing around where most of the math would say he should be performing. When something is off by the extent that the XGF is off by then it's time to take a look at the model as it's providing zero value.
 

Jet

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I still think it is fundemtally broken though as even if he gives up higher quality as per high dangerous chances that metric is still 45% not 42% whereas Mark is 37% HDC. Even if more shots are going on with Mark on the ice he is still getting caved in to a greater extent then Cole.

I'd expect any model to resemble what is happening on the ice and XGF is not following along with any of the other metrics. It isn't at all predicting what is actually happening either Coles other metrics would predict around a 48% GF rating which when you factor in a relatively normal 101 PDO is pretty much right inline with his actual GF% of 50. So he's actually performing around where most of the math would say he should be performing. When something is off by the extent that the XGF is off by then it's time to take a look at the model as it's providing zero value.
It's the new +/- imo. Just bad data.
 

Scheifele55

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Laurent Brossoit is statistically a 1 on 1 off goalie. 1 season he has a good save % the next its sub .900. Yes, this is supposed to be the good one, but we have Rittich who can do the same thing. They both have the same career save %
 
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Jet

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I would hate to lose Schmidt right now considering how well liked he is and now that he's finally playing up to his abilities.

However, hard to resist solving a bunch of problems at once: gaining cap space, picking up a young forward who can play up the lineup, and getting Ville a legit chance to play.

I don't think it's likely now unless the deal is really good for the Jets
 

Hunter368

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Don’t know if it’s “raging” on the return but trading Dubois for Dvorak, who is a significant downgrade and is only under team control for one more year, a mid-round pick, and a meh prospect is lunacy and should be met with scorn, IMO.

If the Jets are aiming to contend, it makes more sense to hold on to Dubois rather than to flip him for a worse roster player when the additional assets (a meh prospect and a mid-round pick) aren’t worth the trade off of losing Dubois for two playoff runs. Yeah, you have Dvorak for an additional year, but I still don’t think it’s worth it.

If we absolutely have to get something for PLD, I’d rather hold on to him this year and flip at the draft. Any team could have him as a one year rental, and you’re likely looking at a late 1st round pick and a good prospect as the return, which I would much prefer.

The discussion was trading PLD this summer, so trading him this summer would be for one playoff run, not two. The rest of your post is certainly one POV that some posters will have, albeit the Jets took a different approach with Trouba so I expect they will do the same with PLD aka trade him this summer and many posters will complain about the return just like they did with Trouba. Time will tell
 

DRW204

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I still think it is fundemtally broken though as even if he gives up higher quality as per high dangerous chances that metric is still 45% not 42% whereas Mark is 37% HDC. Even if more shots are going on with Mark on the ice he is still getting caved in to a greater extent then Cole.

I'd expect any model to resemble what is happening on the ice and XGF is not following along with any of the other metrics. It isn't at all predicting what is actually happening either Coles other metrics would predict around a 48% GF rating which when you factor in a relatively normal 101 PDO is pretty much right inline with his actual GF% of 50. So he's actually performing around where most of the math would say he should be performing. When something is off by the extent that the XGF is off by then it's time to take a look at the model as it's providing zero value.
not sure
i dont really look at HDCF/HDCA and try not use it since i do not understand it fully. from the little bit ive read are just more counting stats. not sure.
Scheifele/Perfetti have the same in Against, but Perfetti has higher in For, which makes sense when you look at xG as well. Again not sure how HDCF/HDCA is defined or scored, or the criteria.

the jets give up higher volume of shots-against when scheifele is on the ice vs perfetti. but the quality of attempts are rated to be higher when Perfetti is on the ice as opposed to scheifele. then consider their xGF/CF is basically same. that's why the CF% is different, but xGF% is the same. that's why scheifele sees to be getting caved in (higher volume shot attempts against).

just look at CF vs xGF it's the easiest to understand.

for your GF ratings

perfetti xGF is 2.61 and GF is 2.55....basically the same theyre scoring as expected

his xGA is 3.56 and GA is 2.55..... difference is Helle's elite goaltending.

i think we see this illustrated pretty succinctly every game as helle has been tremendous.
 
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