Trade, FA and Rumours 2022/23

[Jack7222]

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[Hunter368]

I think the one thing that still really isn't being comprehended is the value of cap space as well. 4MM per (5 MM first year) is significant for a cap team like us.

SOrry not following what your saying

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If truly wants to go there then they dont need to make significant offers really. They could just bide their time.

That still isn't automatic. They can bide their time but when the time comes, they still need to give him money and have cap room.

 

[Hunter368]

But just because the average fan didn’t appreciate that it was a good return and raged on it doesn’t mean that Chevy didn’t think he was getting good value back. I think any PLD trade will need to include more future upside similar to the Trouba trade.

I don't disagree on your Chevy comment, I'm just saying when the Trouba trade happened this board lost its mind about the return and hated it (80-90% of the posters anyways). I suspect the same thing will happen with PLD, the majority of the posters will hate the return and feel we should of gotten more. Now hindsight most of those posters likely say now, ok the Trouba return was acceptable or good. Just like whatever Chevy gets for PLD, at first people will rage on the return saying it wasn't enough, then as time goes on people will be ok with the return.

I agree I would sooner get more futures for PLD b/c few of our core contracts will be almost all done so its a good time to kick start a rebuild or restructure and futures would be helpful. Now Habs might try to force a contract back on the Jets but thats yet to be seen. Any fans thinking the Jets are getting one of their current young players on their roster is dreaming.

 

[WolfHouse]

That still isn't automatic. They can bide their time but when the time comes, they still need to give him money and have cap room.

Everyone thought Johnny Hockey to NJ was automatic... GMs will pay for first crack at a player

 

[tbcwpg]

If you're trading PLD for junk then send him to another team and give them a shot to sign him... Montreal will pay more than Dvorak

I'd think Dach and Florida's 1st

They will definitely not pay that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If you're trading PLD for junk then send him to another team and give them a shot to sign him... Montreal will pay more than Dvorak

I'd think Dach and Florida's 1st

Not the way Dach is playing this year. We won't get him straight up if he keeps it up.

Maybe Dvorak + Fla 1st, if we're lucky.

The time for that better return was this off-season. They couldn't get a deal done, so here we are. We have to include the value of having PLD for this year. He is playing well and the team is doing well.

 

[surixon]

Not the way Dach is playing this year. We won't get him straight up if he keeps it up.

Maybe Dvorak + Fla 1st, if we're lucky.

The time for that better return was this off-season. They couldn't get a deal done, so here we are. We have to include the value of having PLD for this year. He is playing well and the team is doing well.

Dach is playing as a winger though so is he even a fit as a legit top 6 C anyhow?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't disagree on your Chevy comment, I'm just saying when the Trouba trade happened this board lost its mind about the return and hated it (80-90% of the posters anyways). I suspect the same thing will happen with PLD, the majority of the posters will hate the return and feel we should of gotten more. Now hindsight most of those posters likely say now, ok the Trouba return was acceptable or good. Just like whatever Chevy gets for PLD, at first people will rage on the return saying it wasn't enough, then as time goes on people will be ok with the return.

I agree I would sooner get more futures for PLD b/c few of our core contracts will be almost all done so its a good time to kick start a rebuild or restructure and futures would be helpful. Now Habs might try to force a contract back on the Jets but thats yet to be seen. Any fans thinking the Jets are getting one of their current young players on their roster is dreaming.

The Trouba trade was good - under the circumstances.
The Dubois trade will be the same. At least we hope it will be.

 

[Huffer]

PLD at the trade deadline in his last year of his contract would get a 1st and a very good prospect.

If the Jets look to deal him this summer because they can't get him signed, there will be more than just the Habs interested. Some other teams might try to offer him a long term deal and maybe he's ok with a few other situations, or the other team will think they might have a chance to extend him if they get him there, and others might just want him for a 1 year run.

 

[Hunter368]

The Trouba trade was good - under the circumstances.
The Dubois trade will be the same. At least we hope it will be.

AGreed, I'm seeing fans already setting themselves up to be disappointed in the return. Key is "under the circumstances", fans tend to forget this fact, Chevy has very little leverage in this and PLD comments don't help Chevy any just like Trouba

 

[surixon]

AGreed, I'm seeing fans already setting themselves up to be disappointed in the return. Key is "under the circumstances", fans tend to forget this fact, Chevy has very little leverage in this and PLD comments don't help Chevy any just like Trouba

He like most on the team look to be having a lot of fun this year. Perhaps he can be convinced ro stick around for a bit if we keep this up and have some playoff success.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Dach is playing as a winger though so is he even a fit as a legit top 6 C anyhow?

I wouldn't know. Perfetti is playing wing. Is he still a C prospect? Yeah, I know, Dach is a year older. Still only 21 though. Why is Dach not playing C? Who is playing 2C, Monahan?

 

[Heldig]

If you're trading PLD for junk then send him to another team and give them a shot to sign him... Montreal will pay more than Dvorak

I'd think Dach and Florida's 1st

And I would be quite sad at that return. And Hab fans will gloat.

 

[surixon]

I wouldn't know. Perfetti is playing wing. Is he still a C prospect? Yeah, I know, Dach is a year older. Still only 21 though. Why is Dach not playing C? Who is playing 2C, Monahan?

He could still be a C but he played his first three years at C and didn't produce and has only now started producing on wing playing a complimentary role with Suzuki and Caufield. I'm not sure who their 2C is just know he's playing RW on the top line.

 

[DRW204]

let's see how PLD finishes off the year and if he changes his tune of what i believe he'd only want to be in MTL
. i don't see his trade return much higher, if at all, compared to reinhart to Fla or miller to VAN

i think the chances of him being moved at the tdl are quite slim.

 

[Jet]

SOrry not following what your saying

Net gain in cap space

 

[WaveRaven]

It doesn’t sound like you have thought this through for making so many posts.

I would say his value was highest probably after Trouba proved he can be a top defenseman on a Conference Final team. But you want to trade that Conference Final away because you always want to get there 4 years from now. Probably after he proved he can be a legit #1D on the PP.

You might love the lottery that the draft is or the hope prospects give you but teams looking to pick up Trouba like the Rangers are teams that are wanting to win now. They don’t want to hear about your stories of how good Trouba could be in the playoffs, they want to see it. They don’t want to hear your stores of how he might be a PP point producer they want to see it.

I'm not thinking your talking about a deadline trade value when I'm talking about top value.

Look he had the most value to the Jets to trade with 2 years to go period. We did NOT get top value period. And 4 years later we been nowhere near a Conference final. So how'd that work out.

If your happy with number 4 or 5 dman and a AHL dman then I don't know what say other then I'm sure not.

We actually had some depth then on D we should have been gunning to keep that roster fluid and on top. The shortsighted thinking is why we are where we are now. We need to have the balls to trade guys when you know for certain they are not going to stay period.

 

[Hunter368]

He like most on the team look to be having a lot of fun this year. Perhaps he can be convinced ro stick around for a bit if we keep this up and have some playoff success.

Absolutely thats the hope.......but I'm doubtful

 

[Hunter368]

Net gain in cap space

Agreed, as I said let the Habs pay him 8.5 - 9.5 million if he demands out. I've seen on the Habs board some thinking he will sign for 7 million long term haha, thats a joke no chance he signs for that little. The starting point is Suzuki contract and then likely goes up bc the Habs would be buying more UFA years with PLD then with Suzuki. Plus with the cap raising, I suspect PLD will be paid in the 8.5 to 9.5 range easy.

 

[WaveRaven]

That still isn't automatic. They can bide their time but when the time comes, they still need to give him money and have cap room.

I mean wait until he is a UFA theu can make it happen.

I don't like how we are allowing ourselves to get painted further into a corner the longer it goes.

How come we are talking prospects and picks for PLD and Trouba's case but Calgary can get mature 2 players.
Riddle me that ?

 

[surixon]

I'm not thinking your talking about a deadline trade value when I'm talking about top value.

Look he had the most value to the Jets to trade with 2 years to go period. We did NOT get top value period. And 4 years later we been nowhere near a Conference final. So how'd that work out.

If your happy with number 4 or 5 dman and a AHL dman then I don't know what say other then I'm sure not.

We actually had some depth then on D we should have been gunning to keep that roster fluid and on top. The shortsighted thinking is why we are where we are now. We need to have the balls to trade guys when you know for certain they are not going to stay period.

I'm not even sure what your arguing any longer. No the Jets didn't make a deep playoff run in 18-19 but there were very realistic expectations heading into that season that they could go deep having returned pretty much the entire team that just came off a dominating run the year prior. Please name teams that have sold key players when expected to make a deep run?

It's easy to say what they should have done in hindsight knowing that they didn't make that run but if you are the GM and feel you have a legit shot at winning it all no way do you weaken your team because you know a player is walking in two years. No GM does this in any market if they actually want to win.

By your logic Colorado should have traded Kadri a couple years ago or at last deadline because they weren't going to be able to retain him. Sometimes holding onto assets works out and sometimes it doesn't. You can't just perpetually trade key players who are close to UFA if you actually want to compete.

 

[KingBogo]

I'm not thinking your talking about a deadline trade value when I'm talking about top value.

Look he had the most value to the Jets to trade with 2 years to go period. We did NOT get top value period. And 4 years later we been nowhere near a Conference final. So how'd that work out.

If your happy with number 4 or 5 dman and a AHL dman then I don't know what say other then I'm sure not.

We actually had some depth then on D we should have been gunning to keep that roster fluid and on top. The shortsighted thinking is why we are where we are now. We need to have the balls to trade guys when you know for certain they are not going to stay period.

Pionk's usage would be more accurately described as a 2/3 on the Jets. You can argue it shouldn't be, but that is what it is. And I would say based at least on this season under Bones, the Jets D group is at worst middle of the pack in the league. So he is a 2/3 on an average defense group. Calling Heinola an AHL player implies that is what his ceiling is. A much more accurate description would be he is a young promising prospect that has top pairing potential.

 

[SLAYER]

How come we are talking prospects and picks for PLD and Trouba's case but Calgary can get mature 2 players.
Riddle me that ?

Those two players were both also upcoming UFAs. It was an interesting trade, though.

 

[WaveRaven]

I'm not even sure what your arguing any longer. No the Jets didn't make a deep playoff run in 18-19 but there were very realistic expectations heading into that season that they could go deep having returned pretty much the entire team that just came off a dominating run the year prior. Please name teams that have sold key players when expected to make a deep run?

It's easy to say what they should have done in hindsight knowing that they didn't make that run but if you are the GM and feel you have a legit shot at winning it all no way do you weaken your team because you know a player is walking in two years. No GM does this in any market if they actually want to win.

By your logic Colorado should have traded Kadri a couple years ago or at last deadline because they weren't going to be able to retain him. Sometimes holding onto assets works out and sometimes it doesn't. You can't just perpetually trade key players who are close to UFA if you actually want to compete.

What I'm getting at is that we aren't like other franchises. We can't for the life of us sign 3rd liners even as UFAS nevermind stud players as we keep finding out.

We have to maximize every single asset we control every single season.

So your in a bind right you know he's going he's told you that. You have depth at the time and way more teams to trade with by the way. Not all trades are for a pick and prospects. See Cgy Fla trade.

But I am supposed to believe holding him right to the last minute was a good idea. I'm not using hindsight either I wanted them at that time to move him. I never believed we were a true contender but we were on the doorstep.