Rumor: Trade Deadline

[captainpaxil]

Prime Voracek comes away with the puck against Prime Simmonds most of the time. In a 5v5 Team Voracek vs Team Simmonds match, Team Voracek wins a lot more often.

I'd take Simmonds plus shot and average passing over voracek ahl shot and good passing. V was better in transition but simmer has him down low and in the corners. As in everything speed would be the biggest difference and they're both slightly above average though v has waaaasy more left at this point

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'd take Simmonds plus shot and average passing over voracek ahl shot and good passing. V was better in transition but simmer has him down low and in the corners. As in everything speed would be the biggest difference and they're both slightly above average though v has waaaasy more left at this point

This is really over-the-top underrating of Voracek. You don't score 20+ goals six times in 7 years (including 22 in 48 games) with an AHL shot, and his passing was way better than above average.

Simmonds was more or less a PP specialist and quite weak at ES for most of his time here. If ever there was a player capable of just going through teams, it was Prime Voracek. And all they could do was hook him and go waterskiing.

 

[deadhead]

He went to Wharton at the behest of Val Camillo.

That would suggest that she sees him as part of the future, reason to go to Wharton is to bone up on some finance type skills to handle the cap, free agency and contract negotiations - since I doubt she sees Briere as someone with a future on the business side.

 

[DancingPanther]

They'd definitely get the best return, problem is it still likely wouldn't be enough to make an impact and even if they aren't competitive for a few years we still will need them at some point. I'd hang on to them unless the offer was insane and trade anyone else of value 25 or more years old.

Their primes don't line up with this team's competitive window at all. It's not a window btw, it's a brick wall. Trade them. Does a 31 year old TK move the needle of they're hypothetically competitive in 6 seasons?

 

[Beef Invictus]

The team is building Briere into a GM to keep full control over him, keep it in-house, and ensure he continues the current values. He's a disaster in waiting.

 

[deadhead]

Voracek > Simmonds, especially in their prime seasons, that's not really debatable.

However 30 year old Hayes at LW v 30 year old Voracek?
Hayes, 30 ES points, 45 total points in 50 games. CF 48.95%, CFrel +2.79, xGF 48.60%, xGFrel +2.50. 2.10 pp/60 (5x5)
Voracek, 39 ES points, 56 total points in 69 games. CF 52.99%, CFrel +2.68, xGF 51.86%, xGFrel +1.37. 2.36 pp/60.
Voracek had better raw metrics because he was on a more talented team, but relative metrics are pretty similar.
Hayes was also dragged down playing center. Last 40 games he jumps to CF 50.27%, xGF 51.05, since Dec 7, CF 51.42%, xGF 56.32%.

Playing LW has helped Hayes much in the same way it helped G.

Voracek at 31 still had 4x$8.25M, Hayes will have 3x$7M with a rising cap.

 

[tictactoe]

The bigger moves would have to be done summer time. We need to go on a losing streak to get management back to sell mode. I fear they will not do that if we continue to win. Also, jvr should get us a 3rd at least, especially if we retain

sell what? we do not have anything to sell. We have no big moves coming this summer, even if we trade Hayes we will have to retain some $. You think Fletcher will get us a hell of a player for 5-7M that will be better than Hayes and wants to stay in Philly?

 

[Hextallent63]

Boston will have to give Pastrnak a raise from $6.7M next year, he's a UFA.
But Foligno, Smith and Nosek will be off the books, saving $8.6M.

DeBrusk is on LTIR, but if he returns next year, that's an additional $4M against the cap.
They'd like to dump Forbert and his $3M next year.

So a Hayes deal would probably require the Flyers take on DeBrusk or Forbert to free up 2023-24 money and maybe some salary retained, but that would sweeten a deal and garner some real assets.

if any of this had merit behind it, i would take debrusk. hes probly not going to get better stats wise, but hes having a strong season. honestly if i were bostons gm and for some reason i wanted hayes, i would tell fletcher he needs to add in a trade around debrusk and hayes.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Voracek at his peak was one of the best wingers in the game. One of the best play drivers in the league at 5v5 & top tier PP player as well.

Simmonds at his peak was an average 5v5 player & top tier net front PP player.

If you think Simmonds had more net impact than Voracek at their peaks your bias for archetypes is showing.

 

[tictactoe]

I dont get why JVR would only get a 4th. Hes a proven consistent 20-25 goal scorer who could improve a teams PP and has a reputation of being a great lockeroom guy and pro. GMs love adding guys like that at the deadline...hes very low risk...you know exactly what youre getting.

Toronto gave up a 1st for 33 year old nick foligno at the deadline 2 years ago. Foligno had 7 goals n 16 points in 42 games. A 33 year old JVR had 8 goals and 21 points in only 31 games this season...why would he get 3 rounds lower?

He was consistent on a team loaded with talent in Toronto 5 years ago. Yes, you know exactly what you are getting not much, he was not much in playoffs when he was younger so why do you think he will get better now. He aint going to improve PP, Flyers PP sucked for years. Why 3rd rounder, why not? Could be 4th..

 

[deadhead]

JVR will get at least a 2nd, goal scorers get premium value, and he's not a black hole defensively, needs to be sheltered but not hidden.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Their primes don't line up with this team's competitive window at all. It's not a window btw, it's a brick wall. Trade them. Does a 31 year old TK move the needle of they're hypothetically competitive in 6 seasons?

Yeah I'd say it does. Players over 30 play important roles on championship teams and not every draft pick or prospect works out. I'm all for a rebuild, but we do need known commodities.

 

[ponder719]

if any of this had merit behind it, i would take debrusk. hes probly not going to get better stats wise, but hes having a strong season. honestly if i were bostons gm and for some reason i wanted hayes, i would tell fletcher he needs to add in a trade around debrusk and hayes.

I'd do DeBrusk and Forbort for Hayes, nothing else attached, just to get off the last two years of Hayes' deal.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Toughness is when two players come together and given equal ability decides who comes out with the puck. It's willingness to work harder than the other guy and extend when it may lead to bruising. It's laying out to block shots and taking the hit to make the play.
Face punching is just fun to watch and yeah I expect everyone to be willing to throw down when called for. I'd take 5 prime Simmons over five prime voracek. I'd rather have zero dlo.
Macewen showed toughness. Laughton is a tough player Cates too.
I'd say a guy tough enough to scare other teams would need to have world class power the way mcdavids speed is scary.

I think a mod needs to move this whole cumulative conversation into the Provy threads where the rest of the AI stuff is being posted.

 

[trostol]

 

[flyerslducks]

sell what? we do not have anything to sell. We have no big moves coming this summer, even if we trade Hayes we will have to retain some $. You think Fletcher will get us a hell of a player for 5-7M that will be better than Hayes and wants to stay in Philly?

There are tons of players at 5-7m better than hayes lol. But to answer your question…no I have absolutely zero faith that fletcher can get us a hell of a player at any term. That’s how bad fletcher is

 

[deadhead]

There are tons of players at 5-7m better than hayes lol. But to answer your question…no I have absolutely zero faith that fletcher can get us a hell of a player at any term. That’s how bad fletcher is

If they're better than a PPG at $5-7M, they're not going to be available.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Prime Voracek comes away with the puck against Prime Simmonds most of the time. In a 5v5 Team Voracek vs Team Simmonds match, Team Voracek wins a lot more often.

They don’t care about winning though, don’t you see? They just want to be tough to play against.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

NHL Daily: Sharks’ Timo Meier Available; Will Flyers Explore?

All signs point to the Philadelphia Flyers being sellers at the trade deadline, but would general manager Chuck Fletcher get daring for one of the few times in his tenure? Would he roll the dice and make a play for San Jose’s Timo Meier, a powerful left winger who scored 35 goals last year and […]

phillyhockeynow.com

Simple Sam. Suggesting Simple Sam things.
Though a perverted side of me actually wants Cuck to trade a 1st, Foerster and Frost for Meier, just because.

 

[Adam Warlock]

He was consistent on a team loaded with talent in Toronto 5 years ago. Yes, you know exactly what you are getting not much, he was not much in playoffs when he was younger so why do you think he will get better now. He aint going to improve PP, Flyers PP sucked for years. Why 3rd rounder, why not? Could be 4th..

Hes consistently scored at a 20-25 pace in Philly...and you just said hes more consistent with better players whod hed be playing with. So yes, he would improve a teams pp if that team has good players.

Again...nick foligno got a 1st. Thats the closest comparable i can think of from recent deadline trades. Jvr is a better player

 

[Beef Invictus]

They don’t care about winning though, don’t you see? They just want to be tough to place against.

Incidentally, it's way tougher to play against a good team than it is to play against whatever the Flyers are doing. But being good and contending is the wrong way to play or something.

I don't know. Flyers Logic is so stupid it's hard to figure out.

 

[Tripod]

Incidentally, it's way tougher to play against a good team than it is to play against whatever the Flyers are doing. But being good and contending is the wrong way to play or something.

I don't know. Flyers Logic is so stupid it's hard to figure out.

Is it really hard?

You had to argue that Jake was better than Simmonds. His mentality is much like the Flyers archaic thinking to the core. It's why Hagg played over Ghost. Or they sign a 4th liner to a 4 year deal.

Flyers logic is that they are incompetent led by archaic Mgt. Seems pretty simple.


Though I did find amusing how someone else put it the other day....they sit around fondling each others weiners.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Is it really hard?

You had to argue that Jake was better than Simmonds. His mentality is much like the Flyers archaic thinking to the core. It's why Hagg played over Ghost. Or they sign a 4th liner to a 4 year deal.

Flyers logic is that they are incompetent led by archaic Mgt. Seems pretty simple.


Though I did find amusing how someone else put it the other day....they sit around fondling each others weiners.

 

[Flybynite]

View attachment 644657

Did someone say fondling weiners?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is it really hard?

You had to argue that Jake was better than Simmonds. His mentality is much like the Flyers archaic thinking to the core. It's why Hagg played over Ghost. Or they sign a 4th liner to a 4 year deal.

Flyers logic is that they are incompetent led by archaic Mgt. Seems pretty simple.


Though I did find amusing how someone else put it the other day....they sit around fondling each others weiners.

The really funny thing is that "archaic" is not quite right. It implies there was once an era when their role/fit-centric approach would work. That era never actually existed. It's rooted in their own clouded nostalgia and nowhere else. That era has always only ever existed in their own imaginations alone.

And they shun any voice that raises any objection to their circle jerk.