Trade Deadline - What do you see being done?

[notbias]

And right on cue, Spreadsheet World™ proves my point.

Here is that "heavy team" that takes no BS watching their player get hit and doing nothing.



Here is that "heavy team" that takes no BS not making a serious effort to engage with a 185lb guy, but instead fighting nonfighters.



Here is their 240lb player having a typical fight of his, not taking any BS and just getting punched and not doing anything by someone 50 lbs lighter.



Here is Sergachev getting hit by Matthews and no one coming to his defense

Ah, the stats crew strikes again. Heaviness and grit can't be measured by just "hits". Is going aggressively to the front of the opponents net calculated as a hit? Is making sure the opponent can't stand in front off your net counted as a "hit"? Is going hard on the forecheck at all times and not giving your opponent any space counted as a "hit". Is not taking any BS from your opponent counted as a "hit"? Is standing up for your teammates counted as a "hit"?

This stuff isn't measured in Spreadsheet World™, and accounts for a large portion of a team that wins the Cup's success.

Sure looks like they took a lot of BS.

My eyes, not the stats tell me that they don't play any heavier than we do.

For a team that clears the net so well, that shows a lot of chances coming from in tight by Toronto

 

[Hellcat]

Here is that "heavy team" that takes no BS watching their player get hit and doing nothing.



Here is that "heavy team" that takes no BS not making a serious effort to engage with a 185lb guy, but instead fighting nonfighters.



Here is their 240lb player having a typical fight of his, not taking any BS and just getting punched and not doing anything by someone 50 lbs lighter.



Here is Sergachev getting hit by Matthews and no one coming to his defense





Sure looks like they took a lot of BS.

My eyes, not the stats tell me that they don't play any heavier than we do.

For a team that clears the net so well, that shows a lot of chances coming from in tight by Toronto

View attachment 655921

In the end you don't know what you don't know. You clearly don't understand the difference between physical, vigilante justice, dirty and heavy. You are conflating many different "styles" At this point you are debating against yourself.

 

[notbias]

In the end you don't know what you don't know. You clearly don't understand the difference between physical, vigilante justice, dirty and heavy. You are conflating many different "styles" At this point you are debating against yourself.

Your whole argument is just "trust me".

 

[Notsince67]

What I said was accurate, occasionally dirty. Are they dirty on every shift? No, are they dirty 50% of the shifts? Probably not. Less than half the time would in my books fit the occasionally dirty bucket. Selling the narrative that Kucherov is dirty is a stretch at best.

Do you feel that they are heavy every shift? You can't have it both ways. What is perceived as heavy is typically dirty on Tampa.

Sabres captain Kyle Okposo on Nikita Kucherov: ‘A terrific player but he’s dirty’ - Buffalo Hockey Beat

BUFFALO – Late in the third period of Monday’s 6-5 overtime loss to the Tampa Bay Lightning, superstar Nikita Kucherov ran Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen in the crease, hitting the Sabres goalie high and knocking him to the ice as he fought for the tying goal. Sabres defenseman Rasmus Dahlin immediately...

www.buffalohockeybeat.com

 

[Hellcat]

Your whole argument is just "trust me".

Not at all, you feel Toronto is a heavier team than the last 3 Stanley Cup winning champions, I (and multiple other posters who replied to you) don't. It's pretty clear when you watch the last 3 finals the teams are playing heavy games with skill. How do you quantify what you see on the TV when there is no metric for heavy play? How you discount the word of a person who is in the less than 1% club for people who make it to the NHL and believe that you an internet poster knows more? When Methot, O'Neil, Crosby, McDavid, Letang, Tavares all talk about the importance of playing a heavy game in the playoffs, do we just discount them because their opinion does not align with yours? Experience matters.

A prime example was those Ottawa teams that were the elite of the elite during the regular season, came up against a heavy Toronto Maple Leafs and lost every series. Not because Toronto out skilled them but because they were a heavy hard team to play against. you look at the best team, Boston, they chose to pick up two stylistically heavy players, Toronto two stylistically heavy players. Garbrikov , a heavy player, Parayko (rumorde to be avail), a heavy player, Manson a heavy player, Chariott a heavy player, Lybushkin a heavy player, why is it teams covet heavy players for the playoffs? because heavy teams win in the playoffs.

To prevent this from becoming a childish pissing contest, that will never be settled, I'm just going to say have a nice day. You do you.

Do you feel that they are heavy every shift? You can't have it both ways. What is perceived as heavy is typically dirty on Tampa.

Sabres captain Kyle Okposo on Nikita Kucherov: ‘A terrific player but he’s dirty’ - Buffalo Hockey Beat

BUFFALO – Late in the third period of Monday’s 6-5 overtime loss to the Tampa Bay Lightning, superstar Nikita Kucherov ran Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen in the crease, hitting the Sabres goalie high and knocking him to the ice as he fought for the tying goal. Sabres defenseman Rasmus Dahlin immediately...

www.buffalohockeybeat.com

So Kucherov is goon now? Jesus some people. This has gone from a discussion about Trade deadline and the need to play heavy to your one man persecution of Kucherov? Fun.

 

[Notsince67]

Not at all, you feel Toronto is a heavier team than the last 3 Stanley Cup winning champions, I (and multiple other posters who replied to you) don't. It's pretty clear when you watch the last 3 finals the teams are playing heavy games with skill. How do you quantify what you see on the TV when there is no metric for heavy play? How you discount the word of a person who is in the less than 1% club for people who make it to the NHL and believe that you an internet poster knows more? When Methot, O'Neil, Crosby, McDavid, Letang, Tavares all talk about the importance of playing a heavy game in the playoffs, do we just discount them because their opinion does not align with yours? Experience matters.

A prime example was those Ottawa teams that were the elite of the elite during the regular season, came up against a heavy Toronto Maple Leafs and lost every series. Not because Toronto out skilled them but because they were a heavy hard team to play against. you look at the best team, Boston, they chose to pick up two stylistically heavy players, Toronto two stylistically heavy players. Garbrikov , a heavy player, Parayko (rumorde to be avail), a heavy player, Manson a heavy player, Chariott a heavy player, Lybushkin a heavy player, why is it teams covet heavy players for the playoffs? because heavy teams win in the playoffs.

To prevent this from becoming a childish pissing contest, that will never be settled, I'm just going to say have a nice day. You do you.



So Kucherov is goon now? Jesus some people. This has gone from a discussion about Trade deadline and the need to play heavy to your one man persecution of Kucherov? Fun.

He isn't a goon. He is a cheapshot artist. Big difference and that is the point.

 

[AvroArrow]

I want Dubas to target Tom Wilson. Capitals look like they're selling off completely, he has a cap hit of 5.1M for 2 years. He'd be a perfect fit here, provides that physical element you want in the playoffs. He's a dirty POS, but he can be our dirty POS we'll need a bit of that against Tampa and possibly Boston.

We'd have the ability to run 3 very effective line combinations. Or you can just stack the top 6 how Keefe has been doing. Ability to even put Wilson in the top 6.

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
??? - Tavares - Marner
Wilson - ROR - ???

Kerfoot + 2024 1st + 2023 5th + 2024 4th for Wilson @50%

I wonder if the Capitals would entertain this or something similar, Kerfoot is an expiring contract and they get a 1st + a couple late draft picks for Wilson who has 2 years left. It would help us contend this year and next. Not just a rental.

 

[kevsh]

Tampa is skilled and nasty, more so than "heavy".

And imitating that philosophy doesn't guarantee success. But if it's the choice between making opposing forwards a little more hesitant to screen the goalie outside the crease or go into the corners to fetch puck out of fear they'll be the victims of a cheapshot, a blindside hit or a nasty crosscheck to their back versus not worried about any of that, as is the case when facing the Leafs, I'll take the former.

The playoffs are an emotionally & physically demanding marathon, making it even more so for your opponent is a good way to erode their will to keep going. I think that strategy has worked fairly well against the Leafs, not just in the physicality but taking away the stars open ice and clear paths to the net.

 

[Peace Frog]

I want Dubas to target Tom Wilson. Capitals look like they're selling off completely, he has a cap hit of 5.1M for 2 years. He'd be a perfect fit here, provides that physical element you want in the playoffs. He's a dirty POS, but he can be our dirty POS we'll need a bit of that against Tampa and possibly Boston.

We'd have the ability to run 3 very effective line combinations. Or you can just stack the top 6 how Keefe has been doing. Ability to even put Wilson in the top 6.

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
??? - Tavares - Marner
Wilson - ROR - ???

Kerfoot + 2024 1st + 2023 5th + 2024 4th for Wilson @50%

I wonder if the Capitals would entertain this or something similar, Kerfoot is an expiring contract and they get a 1st + a couple late draft picks for Wilson who has 2 years left. It would help us contend this year and next. Not just a rental.

I would LOVE to get Wilson!!! Not exactly sure what the Caps are doing right now, but if they are considering moving him, I pray that Dubas gets it done.

A third line of:

Knies ROR Wilson

Holy Fack!!!!!!

 

[notbias]

Not at all, you feel Toronto is a heavier team than the last 3 Stanley Cup winning champions, I (and multiple other posters who replied to you) don't. It's pretty clear when you watch the last 3 finals the teams are playing heavy games with skill. How do you quantify what you see on the TV when there is no metric for heavy play? How you discount the word of a person who is in the less than 1% club for people who make it to the NHL and believe that you an internet poster knows more? When Methot, O'Neil, Crosby, McDavid, Letang, Tavares all talk about the importance of playing a heavy game in the playoffs, do we just discount them because their opinion does not align with yours? Experience matters.

A prime example was those Ottawa teams that were the elite of the elite during the regular season, came up against a heavy Toronto Maple Leafs and lost every series. Not because Toronto out skilled them but because they were a heavy hard team to play against. you look at the best team, Boston, they chose to pick up two stylistically heavy players, Toronto two stylistically heavy players. Garbrikov , a heavy player, Parayko (rumorde to be avail), a heavy player, Manson a heavy player, Chariott a heavy player, Lybushkin a heavy player, why is it teams covet heavy players for the playoffs? because heavy teams win in the playoffs.

To prevent this from becoming a childish pissing contest, that will never be settled, I'm just going to say have a nice day. You do you.

I never said Toronto is a heavier team, just they are not some soft team like most think, they are similar to Colorado and Tampa, and those are not some super heavy teams.

The finals should have been Calgary vs Washington the way you are talking.

Are Orlov and O'Reilly heavy players? News to me.

Lub didn't help us, Chiarot didn't help Florida, and Colorado's least-played Ds were their biggest (Manson included).

Having a good mix of players is nice, and I'd rather have a Noel Acciari over a Holmberg, but it is because a lot of the other skill sets are close to equal, so I'll take the player who plays that style.

So Kucherov is goon now? Jesus some people. This has gone from a discussion about Trade deadline and the need to play heavy to your one man persecution of Kucherov? Fun.

Kuch is dirty, 100%.

Tampa is skilled and nasty, more so than "heavy".

And imitating that philosophy doesn't guarantee success. But if it's the choice between making opposing forwards a little more hesitant to screen the goalie outside the crease or go into the corners to fetch puck out of fear they'll be the victims of a cheapshot, a blindside hit or a nasty crosscheck to their back versus not worried about any of that, as is the case when facing the Leafs, I'll take the former.

The playoffs are an emotionally & physically demanding marathon, making it even more so for your opponent is a good way to erode their will to keep going. I think that strategy has worked fairly well against the Leafs, not just in the physicality but taking away the stars open ice and clear paths to the net.

They tried that the first two games... it was called the same as the regular season... then we changed our roster because of it.

 

[notbias]

I would LOVE to get Wilson!!! Not exactly sure what the Caps are doing right now, but if they are considering moving him, I pray that Dubas gets it done.

A third line of:

Knies ROR Wilson

Holy Fack!!!!!!

Wilson would be amazing because he is an intimidating player with skill, can play top 6, and open up space for our guys. I'd offer up a fair bit for two playoff runs with him.

 

[Hellcat]

Tampa is skilled and nasty, more so than "heavy".

And imitating that philosophy doesn't guarantee success. But if it's the choice between making opposing forwards a little more hesitant to screen the goalie outside the crease or go into the corners to fetch puck out of fear they'll be the victims of a cheapshot, a blindside hit or a nasty crosscheck to their back versus not worried about any of that, as is the case when facing the Leafs, I'll take the former.

The playoffs are an emotionally & physically demanding marathon, making it even more so for your opponent is a good way to erode their will to keep going. I think that strategy has worked fairly well against the Leafs, not just in the physicality but taking away the stars open ice and clear paths to the net.

Along the lines of what you are saying, O'Neil on Overdrive said something yesterday that seems pretty obvious but TBH I never thought of it that way. He said, not verbatim but the gist is accurate, he said " Do you know how demoralizing it is to work your ass off in the corners and along the boards in the offensive zone because the other team makes you work for every inch, then you look down at your end and its easy breezy for the other team, your team allows easy zone entry's, easy 50/50's, easy in front of the net for the other team, easy along the boards, you allow the other team to control your blueline... how that takes the wind out of your sails and how you get energized when your team is grinding down the other team in your own end?" This IMO is what it means to play heavy and the benefits of playing heavy.

Wilson would be amazing because he is an intimidating player with skill, can play top 6, and open up space for our guys. I'd offer up a fair bit for two playoff runs with him.

Wilson is just getting back from injury, no idea how serious it was but big power forward tend to have a short shelf ice.

 

[notbias]

Wilson is just getting back from injury, no idea how serious it was but big power forward tend to have a short shelf ice.

He is playing close to 20 mins a night, and he is top-line, so must not be too bad.

I doubt he gets moved though just because Ovechkin is chasing the record.

 

[Peace Frog]

He is playing close to 20 mins a night, and he is top-line, so must not be too bad.

I doubt he gets moved though just because Ovechkin is chasing the record.

I would have thought the same thing, but they just moved out a couple of solid pieces to Boston, so who knows?

 

[Cournoyer12]

Not saying to get Luke Schenn or not, but a defensive depth defenseman is difficult for people to have conversations about because they're often not talking about the same thing.

There's a tendency to want to discuss merits of it based on the depth chart, what we already have, who will get play time. But when you get specific role players like Schenn, you're also designing for specific game situations.

For example, when you look at the depth chart, Sandin makes sense and Schenn doesn't. But if it's Game 6 and you have a 4-2 lead in the third, you probably want Schenn on the bench and don't want any part of Sandin.

The ultimate conclusion is I don't want Sandin or Schenn but just a better well rounded Top 4 guy. But if you had to choose, your answer might be different if you're talking on paper or on the ice.

Never should have given up on Schenn in the first place. Unspectacular but solid!

 

[trellaine201]

Too many similar threads but I see Toronto with one more minor move for a hard nosed dman that can play .

 

[Duckrider]

I want Luke Schenn.

 

[crump]

Not sure how much cap space/player/prospect equity we have to spare. I would love an upgrade on Holl in the 6th spot. I get the feeling anyone (Jensen/Soucy/Gavrikov/) worthwhile will be too expensive for their actual worth.

 

[Judas Tavares]

I think in terms of grit, while yes some here do want full out punches and brawls and huge hits, I think most want this kind of play.

This was Acciari's first goal as a Leaf. It was an ugly rebound at the top of the crease. This is what a lot of game-winners look like in the playoffs. And there just haven't been enough of these whether from our core or depth players. It was the first thought that popped into my head when that goal went in.

One of these goals goes in vs. Montreal or Tampa late in the series, well this team would have had some rounds won under their belt.

We need to see these types of goals whether from Acciari or Kampf or Engvall or Marner or Matthews.

 

[Hellcat]

I would have thought the same thing, but they just moved out a couple of solid pieces to Boston, so who knows?

I heard Orlov was asking too much for his next contract, so Washington knowing they were not going to resign him, took the best offer.

Never should have given up on Schenn in the first place. Unspectacular but solid!

JVR kinda did OK when he was here. It was a good trade for us.

 

[Hellcat]

 

[ShaneFalco]

All shake, no bake
Zaitsev was traded too - another dump

 

[Confucius]

Too many similar threads but I see Toronto with one more minor move for a hard nosed dman that can play .

Hard nosed Dman that can play, yes just a minor move.

 

[barilko05]

He is playing close to 20 mins a night, and he is top-line, so must not be too bad.

I doubt he gets moved though just because Ovechkin is chasing the record.

While I think getting WIlson would be a positive move, I fear the minute he puts on that blue and white, the DOPS gets their ears up and if he does anything even REMOTELY over the line, he won't get 2 or 5. He'll get 10, a game misconduct, and then have the book thrown at him by Parros. 5-10 games if it's in season, a series or more if it's POs. You can almost make book on it happening, such is our standing with the league office.

 

[Nineteen67]

In the end you don't know what you don't know. You clearly don't understand the difference between physical, vigilante justice, dirty and heavy. You are conflating many different "styles" At this point you are debating against yourself.

There are so many people, especially in southern Ontario, that don’t watch hockey.