Trade Deadline Thread (March 3)

[Irie]

Probability. Hie many superstar forwards were drafted outside top 50 in this century?

im not saying he sucks. He was recently drafted as a 2nd rounder. I’m waiting till he actually plays 100 games in the nhl to call him anything above where he was drafted.

He was a first round prospect in most mock drafts, but that was the messed up covid draft, and he was in a bad situation where he played a very limited role. So he slid a ton

He was traded his D+1 year and immediately became a PPG player in a men's league as a 19 year old.

Draft pedigree should matter very little when a 19 year old plays the way he played, especially given the context of his situation.

Not many Ilse fans consider him a B prospect. I doubt many hockey scouts considered him a B prospect either.

He's a really good add for the Nucks.

*Edit* does your scale go from B to bluechip? We may have differing opinions on the rating system.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

You just know some people here pumping for a trade would switch to "wrong trade" or "too much" moments afterwards

 

[Bendium]

I mean, they basically got rid of the two most valuable pieces in their prospect pool. Which is a lot to give up. And horvat is far from a perfect piece. BUT there’s a good chance Neither of those futures end up being as good as horvat. It’s an aggressive trade for sure

I doubt Lou made this trade without knowing if Horvat is interested in being in NY, what he wants in an extension, and being willing to give it to him. If he somehow ends up paying this as a 30 game rental, then yeah its to much. If he is signed long term? Then those valuable pieces in thier prospect pool just matured about as well as you could hope for.

I think it was a great move to concentrate assets up. The Sabres must do this at some point. PLayers like Horvat are rarely available.

 

[Djp]

He was a first round prospect in most mock drafts, but that was the messed up covid draft, and he was in a bad situation where he played a very limited role. So he slid a ton

He was traded his D+1 year and immediately became a PPG player in a men's league as a 19 year old.

Draft pedigree should matter very little when a 19 year old plays the way he played, especially given the context of his situation.

Not many Ilse fans consider him a B prospect. I doubt many hockey scouts considered him a B prospect either.

He's a really good add for the Nucks.

*Edit* does your scale go from B to bluechip? We may have differing opinions on the rating system.

he’s a 2nd round pick. people on here seriously overvalue 1st round picks thinking they are going to be superstars and they aren’t.

im not saying he’s garbage either.see what he does. I don’t view him as some sort of steal.

instead of giving up a 2nd they gave up a 2nd round pick on an ELC who just started it. It’s what I consider a B prospect in a trade.

 

[Irie]

he’s a 2nd round pick. people on here seriously overvalue 1st round picks thinking they are going to be superstars and they aren’t.

im not saying he’s garbage either.see what he does. I don’t view him as some sort of steal.

instead of giving up a 2nd they gave up a 2nd round pick on an ELC who just started it. It’s what I consider a B prospect in a trade.

So what you are saying is that draft position is all that matters for grading prospects until they are in the NHL?

I know you don't believe that, but it feels like you are twisting this to say exactly that for an argument's sake. This is a discussion, not a debate.

Honestly, I would put Raty on par with Rosen. I think they are similar value. Raty has more size and plays center and has proven more in Europe, but Rosen also had a bad situation and is now starting to flourish.

Both are good prospects, and I feel like it would be misleading to call either "B" prospects. Kisakov and Weissbach are "B" prospects. Rosen and Raty, while not bluechip, are top 5 prospects within their clubs.

 

[Beerz]

Depends what your cutoff for Superstar is. Kucherov, Point, Gaudreau, Kaprizov, Bratt, Benn, Hoffman, and Stone might be the best in the last 15 years.

There's plenty of good players though

Hoffman?

Edit: sorry I see what you're talking about now

 

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

:djp nonsense:
As Irie stated a few posts above this one, Raty is very similar to Rosen value wise... just another absolutely bazaar stance to argue against him currently being a very good prospect. Your ability to constantly drive me nuts is definitely blue chip tho, I'll give ya that much.

 

[The Blunder Years]

Anyone on the board here want Boeser? I’m really not into the idea of him. I just think the cost and potential salary would be too high.

 

[Matt Ress]

As Irie stated a few posts above this one, Raty is very similar to Rosen value wise... just another absolutely bazaar stance to argue against him currently being a very good prospect. Your ability to constantly drive me nuts is definitely blue chip tho, I'll give ya that much.

I bet you didn't mean to quote Irie

 

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

I bet you didn't mean to quote Irie

Yes, correct, fixed! So sorry Irie! I actually enjoy your well thought out and coherent posts!

 

[Duddy]

Anyone on the board here want Boeser? I’m really not into the idea of him. I just think the cost and potential salary would be too high.

Nobody wants Boeser

 

[HaNotsri]

Meier has one more year of team control than Horvat, but at an insane cap hit.
I'd say 1st+2nd 2023+prospect should be the price if we use Horvat as benchmark.

I know Friedman talks a lot of shit but he said that 2023 2nds have close to 1st round value compared to the 2024 draft. If there's any merit to it we are in an extremely good spot.

 

[K8fool]

I felt like this could be a fun thread with the trade deadline about a month away. Who on this team would you want us to upgrade in the next month (trade for someone to kick them out of the lineup, not necessarily to take their line spot). So not an off-season trade, but an in-season trade this year?

LD: Samuelsson, Power, Bryson

RD: Dahlin, Joker, Boosh

Depth D: Clague

Centers: Thompson, Cozens, Krebs, Jost

Wingers: Skinner, Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Mitts, Olofssson, Girgs, Okposo

Depth Forward: Asplund

Goalies: UPL, Comrie, Anderson

--------------------

For me on defense, I’d take a bottom four defensemen to push Bryson to the depth spot. Bryson has been playing really good, but the more talent the better. If not, I’d take a vet depth defensemen. Clague has been pretty good, but I’d like a vet depth guy over clague (though Bryson would be a great #7)

For forwards, I don't many spots at all. i wouldn’t hate a trade for a bottom six center to push Jost to a depth spot (and asplund to Rochester). Jost has been playing great, but I wouldn’t hate a better player, and plus, jost would be an awesome #13. At minimum, I’d trades for a depth piece to get asplund to Rochester

Who in the league can play the mostly Russian 5 /nhl 70s (physical honor) style that ideally Donny isn't finished installing/teaching) ?

The positive is Jost who Donny knew, I believe, picked it up in months.

Donny would have to know personality wouldn't destroy what they are building, be a huge upgrade and salary not wanted above Thompson and hopefully dahlin at 8 ( as tiny FU to greed)

So .. who is failing in the current lineup from Meatball/KA perspective?

Last 3 games.. nobody. Carolina is a big tell physically. ( That's how sabres beat Russian 5 in 76?)

 

[Jim Bob]

I doubt Lou made this trade without knowing if Horvat is interested in being in NY, what he wants in an extension, and being willing to give it to him. If he somehow ends up paying this as a 30 game rental, then yeah its to much. If he is signed long term? Then those valuable pieces in thier prospect pool just matured about as well as you could hope for.

I think it was a great move to concentrate assets up. The Sabres must do this at some point. PLayers like Horvat are rarely available.

LeBrun: Islanders GM Lou Lamoriello bets big on Bo Horvat — will it pay off?

The Islanders' Horvat trade will have a different narrative depending on whether he is around for a few months or a number of years.

theathletic.com

On a call with the media Monday evening, Lamoriello said the Islanders “really haven’t had any discussions yet” with Horvat’s camp, led by veteran agent Pat Morris. I later asked him how much urgency there was, given the gamble that he’s an unrestricted free agent on July 1.

“I think it’s important to (start negotiations) as soon as possible,” Lamoriello responded. “We’ll work at it and do the best we can. But it’s a great point. We’ll do everything we can to get it done.”

Horvat, on an earlier media call, said “nothing has been discussed as of yet” when asked about potential extension talks.

“This all happened so fast. No talks on that yet,” Horvat said. “Obviously, we’ll see if we can get something done, but we’ll leave it to Pat to handle that.”

Lou made this trade with no idea if they can extend Horvat or not.

And pending UFAs like Horvat are available every trade deadline.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

LeBrun: Islanders GM Lou Lamoriello bets big on Bo Horvat — will it pay off?

The Islanders' Horvat trade will have a different narrative depending on whether he is around for a few months or a number of years.

theathletic.com

Lou made this trade with no idea if they can extend Horvat or not.

And pending UFAs like Horvat are available every trade deadline.

According to the guy that broke the trade hours before they have an 8.5M for 7 years extension in place.

 

[Jim Bob]

According to the guy that broke the trade hours before they have an 8.5M for 7 years extension in place.

There is no way Lou regrets that deal.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Kulich is a non starter for any trade. Ostlund and Rosen are the 1st round equivalents I move.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Meier has one more year of team control than Horvat, but at an insane cap hit.
I'd say 1st+2nd 2023+prospect should be the price if we use Horvat as benchmark.

I know Friedman talks a lot of shit but he said that 2023 2nds have close to 1st round value compared to the 2024 draft. If there's any merit to it we are in an extremely good spot.

He’s full of shit. Those picks might be better than a typical 2nd but they’re not equivalent to 1sts.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Who in the league can play the mostly Russian 5 /nhl 70s (physical honor) style that ideally Donny isn't finished installing/teaching) ?

The positive is Jost who Donny knew, I believe, picked it up in months.

Donny would have to know personality wouldn't destroy what they are building, be a huge upgrade and salary not wanted above Thompson and hopefully dahlin at 8 ( as tiny FU to greed)

So .. who is failing in the current lineup from Meatball/KA perspective?

Last 3 games.. nobody. Carolina is a big tell physically. ( That's how sabres beat Russian 5 in 76?)

These guys don’t play like the Red Army. The Sabres beat the Soviet Wings which was the B team. Red Army played the good NHL teams losing to Philly and tieing Montreal. That tie in particular was a shot across Hockey Canada’s bow.

 

[Jim Bob]

Meier has one more year of team control than Horvat, but at an insane cap hit.
I'd say 1st+2nd 2023+prospect should be the price if we use Horvat as benchmark.

I know Friedman talks a lot of shit but he said that 2023 2nds have close to 1st round value compared to the 2024 draft. If there's any merit to it we are in an extremely good spot.

I believe the team control beyond this season inflates the ask that Grier has for Meier.

We have seen the sky high ask on Chychrun and Erik Karlsson. That is in part because they are under team control beyond this season and their GM can be patient.

I have a feeling that Grier could take a similar approach with Meier and set the bar really, really high. Joe and Lance were talking about multiple 1st round equivalents plus VO as what they would guess Grier would ask Adams for in a Meier trade.

Using the DeBrincat or Horvat deals as a benchmark for a Meier deal might be setting the bar too low.

 

[LetsGoBuffalo1126]

Thinking about the Horvat trade.......this could absolutely be a win for the Canucks. The Isles are going to be hovering in no-man's land this year and next............and at some point the bottom WILL fall out on the Isles.

It's entirely possible that the Isles' pick will be top 12 which means Vancouver will own the Isles 2024 pick period. That could very, very much work out in the Canucks' favor.

Still think Rutherford could have done better.....but there's a sneaky chance for this to be a real good one for Vancouver.

If I've learned anything about trades it's that judging them early can be ridiculously folly, no matter how bad it appears at first. (See Thompson, Tage) It truly could be great for Vancouver and anyone says they know otherwise is swinging and missing potentially.

 

[Jim Bob]

If I've learned anything about trades it's that judging them early can be ridiculously folly, no matter how bad it appears at first. (See Thompson, Tage) It truly could be great for Vancouver and anyone says they know otherwise is swinging and missing potentially.

When it comes to the reaction grading thing with trades, it is a fool's errand to try and grade a trade for a selling team right after a trade like this takes place for a few reasons.

The obvious one is that we have no idea what picks and prospects will develop into down the road.

The other one is that we have no idea what the other offers were for the player or if they would get better or worse between now and the trade deadline.

If the Canucks had planned to hold him until a day or two before the deadline, they were risking that Horvat gets hurt and nobody trades for him. At least with a move like this, they have something to show for Horvat on his expiring deal.

It is easier to grade the NYI side of this. But again, we are speculating how Horvat will play in NY and if he moves the needle or not. If they miss the playoffs with Horvat, this is a big swing and a miss for Lou.

 

[Bendium]

Meier has one more year of team control than Horvat, but at an insane cap hit.
I'd say 1st+2nd 2023+prospect should be the price if we use Horvat as benchmark.

I know Friedman talks a lot of shit but he said that 2023 2nds have close to 1st round value compared to the 2024 draft. If there's any merit to it we are in an extremely good spot.

I feel like the real reason that 2023 has more value keeps getting lost in that it is relative. In other words, "compared to" is key. It probably is no more valuable than a 2019 draft pick was. The issue has to do with COVID cancelling and impacting junior/developmental hockey, making it much harder to evaluate prospects. So the actual talent pool available in 2021 or 2022 was probably just as good as normal years, but outside the top 10-15 was harder to have certainty, so the higher round picks had less value in a trade, and the lower round picks likely had a higher chance of getting a good player.

So, 1st/2nd round picks this year (2023) have more "certainty" than last year (2022), and thus have more value in a trade than last years. However, that does not mean there is more actual talent in this draft than last years. Its just more known and quantified.

 

[debaser66]

1.) We're not contenders for the Cup this year. Not even all that close.

2.) This locker room is very noticeably close. There is worry that bringing in a big name (Meier) who needs an extension could upset the apple cart in a number of different ways. First, you're likely putting Meier in a spot on a line whose members (Quinn, Cozens, Peterka) are close friends. The odd man out could certainly harbor a bit of a resentment there. ALSO -- KA has said repeatedly that he loves how close the room is and with so many good talents that'll need big deals, he hopes that they'll take a bit of a haircut to keep the group together. Now you bring in a guy and basically immediately give him an extension -- how is that going to go over with Cozens? or Dahlin? Or Tage or Sammy, who both signed below market value this offseason to stay together?


If KA makes any moves, it's going to be depth moves who will fit into the roster seamlessly. I highly, highly doubt we're going to see any major moves until the offseason, if KA makes a major move at all. KA has preached patience above all else. And it seems to be working.

they were both bets not below market value signings atm

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

If I've learned anything about trades it's that judging them early can be ridiculously folly, no matter how bad it appears at first. (See Thompson, Tage) It truly could be great for Vancouver and anyone says they know otherwise is swinging and missing potentially.

Yes and no, there's some expected value which makes trading possible, and the evaluation of trades worthwhile.

If McDavid was traded for a 7th rounder, and somehow that 7th rounder ended up being a fantastic player, while McDavid was hit by a bus the next day; did Edmonton make a good trade? No ofc not.