Speculation: Trade Deadline Options

[LAKings88]

I wonder of Amart will be exposed if he isn't traded.

Would suck to lose him for nothing but it would free cap space if taken.

 

[theMajor]

Martinez was at his best when he was sheltered as a good puck moving dman on the third pairing.

He's been dreadful as his minutes and responsibilities have increased. He is one of the weakest defenders on this team, his play in his own end has been unacceptable. I'd rank Forbort way ahead of Martinez.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nothing Martinez does to justify his contract.

he makes what a mid pairing defenseman makes. I wouldnt be against trading him because there are younger guys that we can put in his position and the Kings need to shed salary, but to say he's failed to be a top 4 dman on this team is laughably absurd

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Martinez was at his best when he was sheltered as a good puck moving dman on the third pairing.

He's been dreadful as his minutes and responsibilities have increased. He is one of the weakest defenders on this team, his play in his own end has been unacceptable. I'd rank Forbort way ahead of Martinez.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nothing Martinez does to justify his contract.

THere is far more evidence that Martinez is a good top-4 d-man than there is that he isn't even justifying his contract.

People really need to stop with the "down year = bad career" stuff. I can understand why the 'what have you done for me lately' sentiment is at an all-time high, but please stop rewriting player careers based on half-season narratives.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I wonder of Amart will be exposed if he isn't traded.

Would suck to lose him for nothing but it would free cap space if taken.

Why in the world will be expose him? If we simply want cap space, we can trade him for a ton of picks or a combination of prospects and picks.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Ladue not on ice this morning

Yikes! Imagine he gets traded to Colorado. How convenient. But all jokes aside, I hope he is not getting traded. Bad for our long term plan, unless it is a deal to get Duchene.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

he makes what a mid pairing defenseman makes. I wouldnt be against trading him because there are younger guys that we can put in his position and the Kings need to shed salary, but to say he's failed to be a top 4 dman on this team is laughably absurd

How is it absurd when he's consistently been one of the worst in the lineup? He can't handle top 4 minutes. Look at his plus minus on this team. He played his best hockey when he was behind Doughty, Muzzin, Voynov and Mitchell.

With two of those four gone and his responsibilities increased, Martinez's play has been putrid. What's laughably absurd about that? The numbers and facts and the eye test all indicate this. He's been awful in his role as a top 4. He's paid like a top 3 but he certainly hasn't played like one.

I don't know what you're seeing in his play that can disprove these statements, but go ahead and try. And please, don't post his game winning goals from 2014 as evidence.

 

[LAKings88]

Why in the world will be expose him? If we simply want cap space, we can trade him for a ton of picks or a combination of prospects and picks.

If a deal can't be made.

I like Amart.

LA could expose him tho in hopes he doesn't get picked (salary). Could go 7-3-1. If he is picked you free up space for those guys named Pearson and Toffoli.

Guess it depends on his trade value.

 

[HookKing]

Why in the world will be expose him? If we simply want cap space, we can trade him for a ton of picks or a combination of prospects and picks.

Trade him where? Every team's fan base thinks they will be able to trade away their #4 before the draft. The market will be brutal for D men because most teams have the exact same problem.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How is it absurd when he's consistently been one of the worst in the lineup? He can't handle top 4 minutes. Look at his plus minus on this team. He played his best hockey when he was behind Doughty, Muzzin, Voynov and Mitchell.

With two of those four gone and his responsibilities increased, Martinez's play has been putrid. What's laughably absurd about that? The numbers and facts and the eye test all indicate this. He's been awful in his role as a top 4. He's paid like a top 3 but he certainly hasn't played like one.

I don't know what you're seeing in his play that can disprove these statements, but go ahead and try. And please, don't post his game winning goals from 2014 as evidence.

I'm not going to deny he played his best hockey on the bottom pairing, but that's hardly a revelation since he's not a bottom-pairing defenseman. That's like finding out Doughty would kill it as a #3.

From 2014-2015 thru 2015-2016:

-GF% 56.94--best amongst all regular d-men except McNabb. +25, behind only Doughty. (24th in league int hat time)
-SCF% 55.69--behind only Muzzin and Greene
-Rel Zone Start Ratio--had the hardest zone starts of anyone not named Regehr, -7.83. (49.77 ZSR), while having a Zone FINISH ratio of 51 (most other d-men go negative). So despite starting more shifts in the D-zone, he finished a higher proportion in the Ozone by a higher percentage than anyone (only Drew and Muzzin were positive amongst regulars IIRC and by a much smaller margin probably affected by their starts). This illustrates his play-driving strength (and you saw this on the Cup winning go...oh, you don't want to mention that )
-PPG--0.4, behind only Doughty and Muzzin
1:58 per game SH AND PP

If that's not an all situations 2nd pairing d-man, you have lofty expectations, my friend. If you want to compare him to another 2nd pairing d-man around the league, I'm happy to use that as an illustration, as well.

We were spoiled having him as a secret weapon on the bottom pairing, no doubt. And he's obviously having an off season. Doesn't make him a bad top-4 guy. He's a dynamic d-man who can skate the puck with the best of them.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Trade him where? Every team's fan base thinks they will be able to trade away their #4 before the draft. The market will be brutal for D men because most teams have the exact same problem.

Not really. If AMart is an upgrade over an NHL team's current top 6 defense then they can acquire AMart and just expose one of their worst defenseman.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The fact that you provide these numbers that show that McNabb has a higher GF% shows how meaningless these stats can be.

Has the team performed better since Martinez has been given more responsibilities? Doesn't appear to me like that's the case. He's in over his head in an elevated role.

Like another poster astutely suggested, Martinez is incapable of carrying a workload. He's a good compliment behind a solid top 4. This season, he is being exposed.

He's also been injury prone throughout his career, is turning 30, and makes too much. This team has to shed contracts, and having two immovable ones in Gaborik and Brown will have to force others out and as a result, Alec Martinez might have to be a casualty of these cost cutting moves.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The fact that you provide these numbers that show that McNabb has a higher GF% shows how meaningless these stats can be.

Has the team performed better since Martinez has been given more responsibilities? Doesn't appear to me like that's the case. He's in over his head in an elevated role.

Like another poster astutely suggested, Martinez is incapable of carrying a workload. He's a good compliment behind a solid top 4. This season, he is being exposed.

He's also been injury prone throughout his career, is turning 30, and makes too much. This team has to shed contracts, and having two immovable ones in Gaborik and Brown will have to force others out and as a result, Alec Martinez might have to be a casualty of these cost cutting moves.

lol! Asks for proof, uses opinion to slap down proof

No, McNabb is only up there because of limited sheltered time with Doughty. I only used that instead of JUST raw +/- to adjust for minutes played. I've shown how hard Martinez's minutes were, yet he did a lot of positive with them, driving plays from the dzone to the ozone, and the team had a bigger net positive with Martinez on the ice than with any other d-man not named Doughty. And you are actually blaming martinez for the entire team's performances? Wow. You saw what happened when he went down...come on. Give me some evidence instead of biased anecdotes. Or show me another #4 that you like more so we can actually compare, even if it's on a stacked defensive core.

He's a very good complimentary top 4 and, besides Doughty, the only guy who can skate the puck currently (Forbort, Gravel, LaDue developing the confidence to do so). There's a reason the org was so proud of him last year especially, he took those minutes and ran with them while playing as essentially a #3 in minutes and role.

 

[damacles1156]

Muzzin/A-Mart are still strong possession players, it's just every mistake they have made this year seems to end up in the net.

It's really bad year to make mistakes with Quick out.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Muzzin/A-Mart are still strong possession players, it's just every mistake they have made this year seems to end up in the net.

It's really bad year to make mistakes with Quick out.

Yep. Amongst the best CF% and expected GF% in the league...but were at least for a little bit the literally worst GF% pairing. Might still be with those horrid numbers. And they're clear as day mistakes, just terrible reads off one another. And as Sutter said, you then get caught trying to do too much, to be the hero, which compounds it.

 

[bmr]

Muzzin/A-Mart are still strong possession players, it's just every mistake they have made this year seems to end up in the net.

It's really bad year to make mistakes with Quick out.

It may be a really good thing to understand this team's deficiencies before Quick is back.

 

[theMajor]

lol! Asks for proof, uses opinion to slap down proof

a common albeit tired trend with our friend Ziggy

 

[damacles1156]

Yep. Amongst the best CF% and expected GF% in the league...but were at least for a little bit the literally worst GF% pairing. Might still be with those horrid numbers. And they're clear as day mistakes, just terrible reads off one another. And as Sutter said, you then get caught trying to do too much, to be the hero, which compounds it.

It is , what it is.

Budaj will make that routine save, but he won't stop those prime shots that happen when defenders make huge mistakes.

Also occasionally Budaj gives up that deflating softy. Quick makes the defense better, and the defense makes Quick better.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Anybody following this? http://lakingsinsider.com/2017/02/21/february-21-morning-skate-notes-ladue-doesnt-skate-faceoff-art/

Suspicious circumstances around LaDue today. I think a trade is going down....

 

[Cook24]

From Jon Rosen

Paul LaDue was not on the ice, nor was he seen in the Kings’ dressing room. Earlier correspondence with hockey operations elicited a “not sure†answer when it was asked if there is anything he’s currently “dealing with,†and Darryl Sutter declined to offer any update. Given this, it’s probably safe to assume he’s not playing tonight. I have another email in and will share additional details should or when I receive them. LaDue logged 17:56 in the 1-0 loss to Anaheim on Sunday – his highest TOI since joining the team – and was on the ice with Peter Budaj pulled, according to the play-by-play log.

Something's gotta be up... we wouldn't send him down seeing as how we would have no spare defenseman...unless there's an illness or personal issue.

 

[damacles1156]

Anybody following this? http://lakingsinsider.com/2017/02/21/february-21-morning-skate-notes-ladue-doesnt-skate-faceoff-art/

Suspicious circumstances around LaDue today. I think a trade is going down....

Possible, since Nolan is unlikely to be activated today.

Or could be illness, or personal issue LaDue doesn't want reported.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Possible, since Nolan is unlikely to be activated today.

Or could be illness, or personal issue LaDue doesn't want reported.

Usually when a player is ill or a banged up, they are just scratched. What other reason would there be for him not being in the locker room even?

 

[HookKing]

Not really. If AMart is an upgrade over an NHL team's current top 6 defense then they can acquire AMart and just expose one of their worst defenseman.

Yes really. Its not who's exposed, it's who you can protect. For the team protecting 3 dmen then AMart would have to be sufficiently better than their current number 3 to give up picks and prospects and also lose their current number 3 (since AMart has to be protected). What team out there would do that? Same logic for a team protecting 4. Most likely any team protecting 4 means their #4 will be much better than AMart anyway.

Kings will work a deal with Vegas long before the actual draft since it will be in everyone's best interest to do so.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

From Jon Rosen

Paul LaDue was not on the ice, nor was he seen in the Kings’ dressing room. Earlier correspondence with hockey operations elicited a “not sure†answer when it was asked if there is anything he’s currently “dealing with,†and Darryl Sutter declined to offer any update. Given this, it’s probably safe to assume he’s not playing tonight. I have another email in and will share additional details should or when I receive them. LaDue logged 17:56 in the 1-0 loss to Anaheim on Sunday – his highest TOI since joining the team – and was on the ice with Peter Budaj pulled, according to the play-by-play log.

Something's gotta be up... we wouldn't send him down seeing as how we would have no spare defenseman...unless there's an illness or personal issue.

Well, this is a little disconcerting.
I wonder with Zadorov breaking his ankle yesterday, if the AVs want a D even more badly and are softening a deal
for either Landeskog or Duchene to get Ladue? Something like Ladue + King + ? = Landeskog or Ladue + Kempe + ? = Duchene.

I wonder if the Kings were to make a deal with the Avs, give up our #1 and take their #2. Their #2 will be top of round 2 and not horribad. Just perhaps trading down about 6-12 picks, with the Kings finish up in the air.

 

[damacles1156]

Apparently Sutter declined to answer any questions about LaDue.

 

[lumbergh]

I'm not going to deny he played his best hockey on the bottom pairing, but that's hardly a revelation since he's not a bottom-pairing defenseman. That's like finding out Doughty would kill it as a #3.

From 2014-2015 thru 2015-2016:

-GF% 56.94--best amongst all regular d-men except McNabb. +25, behind only Doughty. (24th in league int hat time)
-SCF% 55.69--behind only Muzzin and Greene
-Rel Zone Start Ratio--had the hardest zone starts of anyone not named Regehr, -7.83. (49.77 ZSR), while having a Zone FINISH ratio of 51 (most other d-men go negative). So despite starting more shifts in the D-zone, he finished a higher proportion in the Ozone by a higher percentage than anyone (only Drew and Muzzin were positive amongst regulars IIRC and by a much smaller margin probably affected by their starts). This illustrates his play-driving strength (and you saw this on the Cup winning go...oh, you don't want to mention that )
-PPG--0.4, behind only Doughty and Muzzin
1:58 per game SH AND PP

If that's not an all situations 2nd pairing d-man, you have lofty expectations, my friend. If you want to compare him to another 2nd pairing d-man around the league, I'm happy to use that as an illustration, as well.

We were spoiled having him as a secret weapon on the bottom pairing, no doubt. And he's obviously having an off season. Doesn't make him a bad top-4 guy. He's a dynamic d-man who can skate the puck with the best of them.

In previous years, AMart was an excellent 3rd pairing defensemen providing offense on the power play. This year, for no reason I can understand, he's been paired with Muzzin and it has been disastrous. Either move Muzzin up with Doughty or move Martinez down. The two together make an explosive mix on defense.

Marty is a good 2nd pairing guy, just not with Muzzin.