Speculation: Trade Deadline: March 8, 2024

[DustyDangler]

All I know is that I've seen two games now end to end and in both of them I saw Keller looking casual with the puck, giving up on puck battles, handling the puck like it was his first time holding a stick... playing like a complimentary player rather than one who drives the play and motivates a team.

I'm not on the "trade Keller" bandwagon but I've definitely fallen off the "Oh captain, my captain" one. In all the time I've seen Keller play with the Coyotes, not once have I looked at him and thought, "This guy is the key to this team's success or failure." I think if we had a real leader in the room, we wouldn't have spent the last, what, five or six seasons going on month-long losing streaks.

But what do I know, I haven't played the game myself, I just watch it.

Keller is not captain material and the concept should not even be on the table. This contemporary thing where teams give the C to the best player on a team rather than the best leader is annoying. They are smart to wait on this decision.

 

[Mosby]

Didn’t you just start watching this season though because of Coyotes Central? Can’t discount everything up until the past two games.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

This is a team that has made the playoffs 9 times since 1996. Made it past the first round once. ONCE! BA comes in and decides to do our first rebuild and all I hear is "he wasted a year," "we need to make the playoffs next season," "it's taking too long," etc.

You guys seem less tolerant and less patient now than ever.

And rightly so, after all the years of futility.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Didn’t you just start watching this season though because of Coyotes Central? Can’t discount everything up until the past two games.

Yes, I've missed seeing basically this whole season because I haven't had a way to watch games. But Keller's been with the Coyotes since 2016-2017, and I saw almost all of his games up until my enforced hiatus.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Yeah, this goes well beyond any normal rebuild. I just re-read what BA's own words are on the timeline from 4 months ago. I still can't find where it says "year 5" lol.

Armstrong talks status of Coyotes rebuild in Q&A with NHL.com | NHL.com

"Bill Armstrong believes there are four stages to a successful rebuild. 'We're in Phase 2 right now...'"

"Armstrong doesn't know when the Coyotes will be good enough to move into Phase 3 of the rebuild, but he's confident it will happen. He's already starting to see it. 'That's when your young players start to be good and you've got to make that step to make the playoffs," he said. "The fourth one is building that championship team and putting it on the ice. For us, it's just going in the phases.'"

Edit:
BA isn't showing any signs of pressure from ownership to get things done quickly and he seems to be doing things very patiently and calculated. The ownership knows that nothing is going to grow the team's brand until they have an Arena, even the product. I'm thinking he has all the time in the world to get a playoff caliber team on the ice, as long as it's in time for the home opener of the new arena. (That's when I'll judge the job he's done, anyways.)

And sth's balls get big as grape fruit's from these latest kicks!

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

And sth's balls get big as grape fruit's from these latest kicks!

If we lose half our fanbase we'll still have 250 fans left though

 

[Coyotedroppings]

All I know is that I've seen two games now end to end and in both of them I saw Keller looking casual with the puck, giving up on puck battles, handling the puck like it was his first time holding a stick... playing like a complimentary player rather than one who drives the play and motivates a team.

I'm not on the "trade Keller" bandwagon but I've definitely fallen off the "Oh captain, my captain" one. In all the time I've seen Keller play with the Coyotes, not once have I looked at him and thought, "This guy is the key to this team's success or failure." I think if we had a real leader in the room, we wouldn't have spent the last, what, five or six seasons going on month-long losing streaks.

But what do I know, I haven't played the game myself, I just watch it.

I never claimed him to be C material, he doesn't need to be. Hell, he doesn't even come off as wanting to be imo. Bear has the right idea on the C and when someone shows to be C material, it will be obvious. It's not as important as fans seem to think it is.

 

[DustyDangler]

I never claimed his to be C material, he doesn't need to be. Hell, he doesn't even come off as wanting to be imo. Bear has the right idea on the C and someone shows to be C material, it will be obvious. It's not as important as fans seem to think it is.

It's important.

 

[SR]

I'm willing to move anyone on the main roster that's left after keeping Keller, Cooley, Guenther, Crouse, Hayton, Macelli, McBain, Durzi, Moser, and Ingram. I'd also like to see them package some of those second rounders to improve the team for next season. We don't need to make all those picks.

Same on all of this. Tired of the draft picks, unless it’s a 1st.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

It's not as important as fans seem to think it is.

I disagree. I think without a clear leader in the room, everything is kinda left up to the group, and that's never as decisive an environment. Anyone here who has ever tried to get a consensus from their kids about what to have for dinner understands that all too well.

But also, without a captain, the room doesn't have a clear voice who can answer to and push back against (if necessary) the coaches or the administration. In military terms, every squadron needs a boss to be a leader, an advocate, and an organizer. Sports teams are the same way... successful ones, anyway.

I have never played hockey but I have played other sports, and I believe that captains and leaders are rarely the best or most skilled players on the team. Captains, rather, are the ones who can get the rest of the team to give that skilled player what he needs to be his best.

The Coyotes have felt rudderless to me for a long time. And yes, I think for me there's confirmation bias at work affecting my opinion because of Shane Doan. But I don't think OEL was a good captain based on the team culture (especially with Demers and Stepan bro'ing the brains out of the squad). And "Captain by committee" doesn't seem to be working either.

I suppose I've got to hope that we find a leader somewhere, either in the draft or in free agency or, ideally, in our current prospect pool. Right now, we don't have one, and it's showing.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I disagree. I think without a clear leader in the room, everything is kinda left up to the group, and that's never as decisive an environment. Anyone here who has ever tried to get a consensus from their kids about what to have for dinner understands that all too well.

But also, without a captain, the room doesn't have a clear voice who can answer to and push back against (if necessary) the coaches or the administration. In military terms, every squadron needs a boss to be a leader, an advocate, and an organizer. Sports teams are the same way... successful ones, anyway.

I have never played hockey but I have played other sports, and I believe that captains and leaders are rarely the best or most skilled players on the team. Captains, rather, are the ones who can get the rest of the team to give that skilled player what he needs to be his best.

The Coyotes have felt rudderless to me for a long time. And yes, I think for me there's confirmation bias at work affecting my opinion because of Shane Doan. But I don't think OEL was a good captain based on the team culture (especially with Demers and Stepan bro'ing the brains out of the squad). And "Captain by committee" doesn't seem to be working either.

I suppose I've got to hope that we find a leader somewhere, either in the draft or in free agency or, ideally, in our current prospect pool. Right now, we don't have one, and it's showing.

The coaching staff are the clear leaders.

 

[Mosby]

Yes, I've missed seeing basically this whole season because I haven't had a way to watch games. But Keller's been with the Coyotes since 2016-2017, and I saw almost all of his games up until my enforced hiatus.

Different player the last two seasons. Tocchet had nearly destroyed him.

 

[Foggy1097]

My hunch is that Cooley will emerge as the obvious leader of this team in another year or two. Has the potential to be best all around player, most competitive…just probably needs to find his voice and get comfortable leading. Seems a bit like Keller in that he’s a little quiet, but not quite as much…also seems more fiery at the same time.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

The coaching staff are the clear leaders.

The coaches aren't peers.

 

[Mosby]

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Any relation to Nick?

Edit: Just looked him up. He's Nick's older brother, unless it just happens to be a different Jordan Schmaltz that looks like he's from the same family. Lol

 

[Mosby]

He played for Tucson a few years ago

 

[Foggy1097]

Two scouts from CGY you say….? Hmmm I hope that implies what I want it to imply

 

[Mosby]

Two scouts from CGY you say….? Hmmm I hope that implies what I want it to imply

I’m gonna guess that one of the Calgary scouts is Don Maloney. Pretty sure he still lives in Scottsdale and is a regular at Coyotes games.

 

[Mangosteen]

We have been through so many rebuilds. Twice we were ranked top 3 by hockey news for top prospects. Last time I believe was Strome draft year. Developing and growing a team is the challenge. Easy to keep year after year selling players for picks if you don't have the fans to hold the team accountable. Sure BA have, three more years of phase one or two. Hell you a good guy make it 4. We love the draft, most exciting thing in hockey. Playoffs are over rated. In 4 more years we can be above meaningful games.

How many more seasons are we ok with tanking? It's not the owner BA should be concern about it should be the fans.

 

[Schemp]

We have been through so many rebuilds. Twice we were ranked top 3 by hockey news for top prospects. Last time I believe was Strome draft year. Developing and growing a team is the challenge. Easy to keep year after year selling players for picks if you don't have the fans to hold the team accountable. Sure BA have, three more years of phase one or two. Hell you a good guy make it 4. We love the draft, most exciting thing in hockey. Playoffs are over rated. In 4 more years we can be above meaningful games.

How many more seasons are we ok with tanking? It's not the owner BA should be concern about it should be the fans.

Still picking on the homeless?

Two scouts from CGY you say….? Hmmm I hope that implies what I want it to imply

Tanev to Edmonton?

 

[cobra427]

Who came up with this number that standardizes how long a rebuild should take for every team and every scenario? What about when the GM has to hire an entire hockey ops staff as part of the rebuild? How long does that add?

Edit: Not having a first round pick because the last GM f'd up. How about that? How long does that add?

Two of our best prospects have KHL contracts that don't end until after next season. What's the standardized add in time to the rebuild for that?

Pretty sure BA's own timeline is not 5 years.

Maybe his timeline is 10 years to make the playoffs, the longer you string it out the more room you have to perform. Name any franchise in the NHL that gets a new GM and starts rebuilding, and then what is acceptable to make the playoffs, what year is reasonable? 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7? I doubt an acceptable plan for ownership, the new GM or the fans would be, " we expect to be in the playoffs by year 5 or 6". GM is likely fired after year 4 of no playoffs in a row.

We and the coyotes need to quit playing the victim card, no money, lost a pick, RT is an idiot, Chayka was stupid, whatever....Every franchise has issues, hires new staff, etc. We made the playoffs 3 years in a row and the WCF with basically a coaching change. I hope we make the playoffs next year and have 3 years of equal success, playoffs and win a series or two. BA isn't DM yet nor is AT Tip yet.....

I like BAs plan but he is getting plenty of rope and built in excuses while we wait it out......

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

We have been through so many rebuilds. Twice we were ranked top 3 by hockey news for top prospects. Last time I believe was Strome draft year. Developing and growing a team is the challenge. Easy to keep year after year selling players for picks if you don't have the fans to hold the team accountable. Sure BA have, three more years of phase one or two. Hell you a good guy make it 4. We love the draft, most exciting thing in hockey. Playoffs are over rated. In 4 more years we can be above meaningful games.

How many more seasons are we ok with tanking? It's not the owner BA should be concern about it should be the fans.

I'm not picking on you, I value your opinion.

This is about the time Chayka thought his rebuild (about 4 years in) was far along enough to trade away a 1st, 3rd, and three prospects away for Taylor Hall. Kevin Bahl sure would be a nice player to still have along with whoever we would have taken with that 1st rounder he gave away.

I also think about how in the past Don Maloney and/or John Chayka and a TV set made up the majority of our "Scouting Dept." So it's kind of hard for me to compare anything done in the past to what they're doing now.

What is it that you would like to see them do differently, since you don't approve of what they're doing/have done? What do you think would speed things up without hurting the long term goal?

Edit: What about you @cobra427? What do you want done differently from here on out?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The coaches aren't peers.

And who gives a f***

 

[cobra427]

I'm not picking on you, I value your opinion.

This is about the time Chayka thought his rebuild (about 4 years in) was far along enough to trade away a 1st, 3rd, and three prospects away for Taylor Hall. Kevin Bahl sure would be a nice player to still have along with whoever we would have taken with that 1st rounder he gave away.

I also think about how in the past Don Maloney and/or John Chayka and a TV set made up the majority of our "Scouting Dept." So it's kind of hard for me to compare anything done in the past to what they're doing now.

What is it that you would like to see them do differently, since you don't approve of what they're doing/have done? What do you think would speed things up without hurting the long term goal?

Edit: What about you @cobra427? What do you want done differently from here on out?

Nothing really different from here on out for me, maybe more D prospects. In theory we have Hayton/Cooley/Geekie, maybe our C solution just takes time, might be a 1C in there. I don't see anyone on the roster or in the minors that can be a 1D, I would like to see BA solve that problem somehow.