GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Training camp approaches

[Dreakmur]

Again, who said Lou instructed Trotz how to play him?

You certainly implied it.

A GM is supposed to be able to maximize return for value able assets. When they sell one for less than expected it certainly can't be viewed as a positive on their part.

Just because one player excelled with one team doesn’t mean he would have in a different situation. What Lou traded away was a #5 defenseman. Just because Colorado acquired a #1 doesn’t mean New York lost more.

Sandin isn't even an NHL regular yet. If Dubas' trades him tomorrow for a 2nd and change then and he immediately steps into being a top pairing D man, then Dubas' would have earned a lot of well deserved criticism

And if Sandin turns 26 years old while still never breaking into the top-4, then the situations will be comparable.

 

[Menzinger]

You certainly implied it.



Just because one player excelled with one team doesn’t mean he would have in a different situation. What Lou traded away was a #5 defenseman. Just because Colorado acquired a #1 doesn’t mean New York lost more.

What I implied was that Lou and his coach were likely on the same page about the teams assets .

If a player suddenly transforms into a top pairing D man (especially when moved to a better team) after a trade it likely suggests he was either mishandled and valued incorrectly by his earlier team.

However one wants to frame the trade, the Avs ended up with the overwhelmingly superior asset by quite a margin as a result of it.

 

[LaPlante94]

Rumours that the Habs aren't matching the offer sheet and instead gonna use that 1st round pick to get Dvorak apparently. So pretty much the habs did KK for Dvorak and a 3rd which I guess isn't too bad depending on what you think of KK.

 

[Dreakmur]

What I implied was that Lou and his coach were likely on the same page about the teams assets.

In response to my post that Barry Trotz was the guy who played him in the #5 role.

If a player suddenly transforms into a top pairing D man (especially when moved to a better team) after a trade it likely suggests he was either mishandled and valued incorrectly by his earlier team.

Or he went to a weaker team.

Or he went to a team with different needs.

Or he went to a better fit.

However one wants to frame the trade, the Avs ended up with the overwhelmingly superior asset by quite a margin as a result of it.

Colorado got more than two 2nd round picks worth of value.... and New York got more than a #5 defenseman worth of value. Seems like a big win for both teams.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I would much rather have our cap situtation than the Islanders.

A lot of term and dollars on an aging roster and for the 3rd consecutive offseason next year they'll have to trade a valuable player because they decided to keep 4th liners and depth guys long term.

They're almost capped out for next season already with $12M to re-sign Pulock, Dobson, and Clutterbuck. And that's before factoring Zajac and Parise deals that have yet to be announced. If either one is two years it eats into that amount.

They are going to be really bad, really shortly here.

There are a few posters, mainly Leafs fans, who have been saying Lou is in cap hell every year for the past three years; but he not only seems to manage it without losing much of anything, but has built a very successful team.

They have a solid group of players all up and down their lineup, which gave the Cup champions their toughest challenge the past two years.

We have four overpaid 'stars' who disappear in the playoffs, and a collection of nobodies and has-beens, who can't win a round, even against Montreal.

Their team and ours in the playoffs were almost identical in average age. Their three best forwards are 31, 24, and 24. Our three best forwards are 31, 24, and 24. Their two best defencemen are both younger than Rielly and four of our others.

I'm not sure where their 'aging roster' comes from.

I'm sorry, but a lot of it sounds like sour grapes.

 

[notDatsyuk]

you can go up to 8.25 by

Dumping kerfoot. Soup. Engvall.
Signing Campbell for under 4
And sandin/lilly for 3 combined.

Assuming you can dump Kerfoot, Soup, and Engvall for free, and sign Campbell for under 4 and Sandin and Lilly for 3 combined, if you sign Rielly for 7, that leaves you with 1.25 to fill the three missing forward spots.

So we haven't improved our defence, while weakening our offence; putting even more pressure on the four who already haven't been able to get it done.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Not for or against Lou and it is just a simple question.
How the heck did Lou not able to build a solid Defence for the Leafs when he was GM for 3 yrs and yet managed to build a great D corps with spare(Toews) in the same amount of time with the Islanders?

He started with two young, very good D in Pelich and Pulock, picked up a savvy vet in Greene, and got solid defensive forwards like Komarov and Martin.

And yes, got a coach who agreed with his philosophy.

 

[Legion34]

Assuming you can dump Kerfoot, Soup, and Engvall for free, and sign Campbell for under 4 and Sandin and Lilly for 3 combined, if you sign Rielly for 7, that leaves you with 1.25 to fill the three missing forward spots.

So we haven't improved our defence, while weakening our offence; putting even more pressure on the four who already haven't been able to get it done.

the cap is supposed to be 82.5 next year. I’m not saying it’s the best plan I’m just saying it fits

 

[DraftSchmaft]

You certainly implied it.



Just because one player excelled with one team doesn’t mean he would have in a different situation. What Lou traded away was a #5 defenseman. Just because Colorado acquired a #1 doesn’t mean New York lost more.



And if Sandin turns 26 years old while still never breaking into the top-4, then the situations will be comparable.

You are so clueless I doubt anyone takes your posts seriously.

Devon Toews was one of the hottest D breakouts (before trade) and a massive fail by the Islanders. You obviously don't have the knowledge to be having a discussion about Devon Toews if you think they traded away a #5. All the metrics had Toews trending to be one of the best D's in the game regardless what you think. Not being able to keep him because of glorifying third liners

 

[Dekes For Days]

Devon Toews was one of the hottest D breakouts (before trade) and a massive fail by the Islanders. You obviously don't have the knowledge to be having a discussion about Devon Toews if you think they traded away a #5. All the metrics had Toews trending to be one of the best D's in the game regardless what you think.

Yeah, but it doesn't matter that he was clearly a top-4 defenseman on an upwards trajectory by every metric, and it doesn't matter that he's become a top-pairing defenseman for Colorado directly after being traded, and it doesn't even matter that he was top-4 in ice time for the Islanders the whole season prior to trading him, because he played 3 seconds less than Mayfield in the playoffs so clearly #5.

 

[Dreakmur]

You are so clueless I doubt anyone takes your posts seriously.

Devon Toews was one of the hottest D breakouts (before trade) and a massive fail by the Islanders. You obviously don't have the knowledge to be having a discussion about Devon Toews if you think they traded away a #5. All the metrics had Toews trending to be one of the best D's in the game regardless what you think. Not being able to keep him because of glorifying third liners

They didn't keep him because they didn't value what he brought to the team. Look at how he was used. He was essentially an offensive specialist who didn't put up many points. They didn't trust him at all in defensive situations.

 

[Dreakmur]

Yeah, but it doesn't matter that he was clearly a top-4 defenseman on an upwards trajectory by every metric, and it doesn't matter that he's become a top-pairing defenseman for Colorado directly after being traded, and it doesn't even matter that he was top-4 in ice time for the Islanders the whole season prior to trading him, because he played 3 seconds less than Mayfield in the playoffs so clearly #5.

So Barry Trotz doesn't know how to evaluate defensemen now? I thought he was the only reason the Islanders didn't suck.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You are so clueless I doubt anyone takes your posts seriously.

Devon Toews was one of the hottest D breakouts (before trade) and a massive fail by the Islanders. You obviously don't have the knowledge to be having a discussion about Devon Toews if you think they traded away a #5. All the metrics had Toews trending to be one of the best D's in the game regardless what you think. Not being able to keep him because of glorifying third liners

Toews was a late blooming 4th round pick, at best the #3 defenceman on the Isles.

Yes, Lou would have liked to keep him, but between some of the bad contracts he inherited from Snow, and Toews filing for arbitration, he decided it was better for the team to get assets rather than worsen their cap situation. It's not as though he got nothing back.

Toews is good, but with Pelech and Puloch, who are the same age, he was not likely to ever be more than #3, which well could be why he filed.

In his rookie season, the Isles had the best GAA in the league. The next year, they dropped to fifth. Last year, without Toews, they were within three goals of leading again. I'm not saying they couldn't use him, but they don't seem to be collapsing without him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So Barry Trotz doesn't know how to evaluate defensemen now? I thought he was the only reason the Islanders didn't suck.

I didn't say that Trotz doesn't know how to evaluate defensemen, and I also didn't say that he was the only reason the Islanders "didn't suck". I'm saying that you're clearly underrepresenting what the Islanders were forced to trade away.

 

[Dreakmur]

I didn't say that Trotz doesn't know how to evaluate defensemen, and I also didn't say that he was the only reason the Islanders "didn't suck". I'm saying that you're clearly underrepresenting what the Islanders were forced to trade away.

I don't care what he became after the trade. I care what he was in New York. They didn't give up Colorado's #1 defenseman, they gave up their own 4/5.

I thought Toews was better than Leddy, and about equal to Mayfield. I would have tried to trade Leddy first, but if there's no real return coming back for Leddy, two second rounders is a good return for a guy that I'm not really going to miss.

 

[notdoneyet]

Lou is gone
This is a free agent trade board
Why is there a shitting contest with lou and the isles
Star a thread for that

back to trades

 

[notdoneyet]

Rielly should be traded if asking fir what we cant afford

We have a band aid team from signing the big 4
Lost lots of depth
Will get worse if signing rielly to a monster contract

 

[Dekes For Days]

they gave up their own 4/5.

That still considerably underrepresents what the Islanders traded away for a mediocre return, but at least it's a tiny bit better than calling him a #5.

 

[Dreakmur]

That still considerably underrepresents what the Islanders traded away for a mediocre return, but at least it's a tiny bit better than calling him a #5.

There's a difference between calling him "a #5" and "their #5". Some teams are a lot deeper than others. The same guy can be #5 on one team and #1 on another.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The relevant part about Towes is that they chose to make unforced errors like Komarov and Martin and stick with them over keeping a top young D. You could easily find the cap space to keep him (and flip him later at actual 1/2D prices if needed) if you got rid of some of the junk in that lineup.

 

[Dekes For Days]

There's a difference between calling him "a #5" and "their #5".

Hmm...

What Lou traded away was a #5 defenseman.

 

[Dreakmur]

Hmm...

Cool, I mis-spoke. He was their #5.

I guess we agree on everything else.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I guess we agree on everything else.

No, I don't particularly agree with calling a top pairing defenseman a #5 defenseman, just because, despite the fact that that defenseman was much better than your typical #5, better than his team's 5th best defenseman, and played more than the 5th most minutes throughout that season, they played 3 less seconds than somebody in the playoffs.

 

[LeafChief]

Cool, I mis-spoke. He was their #5.

I guess we agree on everything else.

There's a mainboard for Isles talk.

 

[Gabriel426]

Any news on the OS for KK?