GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Training camp approaches

[Dreakmur]

Certainly not anybody based on plus-minus.

Or real results.

 

[LeafSteel]

It's an excellent return for a #5D which Toews was with the Islanders

You don't assess a players talent level and market value based on where he plays in your lineup, you base it on market need.

Was Tyler Bozak really a 1C and having the trade value of a true 1C?

Just because someone is buried lower in the lineup than they should be, it's an indication of organizational depth, not deficiency in a player. If a player slots in your 5D role because you have too many good Defencemen, but fits a 2D role on a different team that wants him, his value is that of a 2D player.

What an odd and inaccurate way to value your own player..

 

[Dekes For Days]

Or real results.

A lot of people are overpaid around the league based on real results, but plus minus certainly isn't the "result" to look at.

 

[shortfuze]

I really don’t, just trying to make light of a terrible situation that we’re in with Dubass as our GM…

if Rielly signs to the rumoured deal, why are they in a terrible situation? the majority of the team will all be locked up. they need depth and hopefully the goaltending stands up.

 

[Dreakmur]

A lot of people are overpaid around the league based on real results, but plus minus certainly isn't the "result" to look at.

A lot of people are overpaid… just not anyone Dubas signed.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

if Rielly signs to the rumoured deal, why are they in a terrible situation? the majority of the team will all be locked up. they need depth and hopefully the goaltending stands up.

What is the rumoured deal? We're in a terrible situation because we're completely capped out and haven't gotten better. We also have a GM who's blindly loyal to a core that isn't getting it done. I pray this is Dubass' last season as GM, what a waste of a few years.

 

[Dekes For Days]

A lot of people are overpaid… just not anyone Dubas signed.

I'm not sure everybody would agree with your position, but I agree that he's done well managing our cap.

 

[BlueForever75]

If Reilly signs for anything more than Parayko Dubas should be fired.

Similar players, difference is one has a Cup and the other doesnt. If it were up to me it wouldnt be a dollar more than 6 million per.

 

[Dreakmur]

I'm not sure everybody would agree with your position, but I agree that he's done well managing our cap.

Don’t be so negative. Dubas has been perfect in every way.

 

[SprDaVE]

If Reilly signs for anything more than Parayko Dubas should be fired.

Similar players, difference is one has a Cup and the other doesnt. If it were up to me it wouldnt be a dollar more than 6 million per.

Cups don't play into contract negotiations. Cups are a team achievement. Contracts are individually awarded.

Parayko has a career high 35 points and 171p in 418 games. Rielly has a career high 72 points and 305p in 572 games. The last 2 years, Rielly completely outproduces Parayko in every category. Rielly has played some of the hardest minutes and has been very good over the last few years in those minutes.

The amount of crap Rielly is getting around here is asinine and you need to re-evaluate something if you don't think Rielly easily deserves more money. Parayko is a good player but come on... The grass isn't always greener.

 

[pspot]

Cups don't play into contract negotiations. Cups are a team achievement. Contracts are individually awarded.

see Marner, Matthews, and JT lol

 

[geo25]

Cups don't play into contract negotiations. Cups are a team achievement. Contracts are individually awarded.

Parayko has a career high 35 points and 171p in 418 games. Rielly has a career high 72 points and 305p in 572 games. The last 2 years, Rielly completely outproduces Parayko in every category. Rielly has played some of the hardest minutes and has been very good over the last few years in those minutes.

The amount of crap Rielly is getting around here is asinine and you need to re-evaluate something if you don't think Rielly easily deserves more money. Parayko is a good player but come on... The grass isn't always greener.

 

[geo25]

Are you high? Anyone who knows anything about hockey takes Parayko over Reilly 10 times put of 10. He'a a better DEFENCEman, with a shot, higher IQ & he's not afraid to hit. He's also 6'6" everyday. Stop being a homer....some of the nonsense I read is laughable. Reilly had 1 good offensive season. He is a JOKE defensively....afraid to hit, has NO shot, can't quarterback a PP...I'm not surprised....good ole Phaneuf was his mentor & he picked up a lot of bad habits from him. I would trade him & get a more solid D first defenceman. In my books he's #3 on the Leafs behind Muzzin & Brodie. He has never been nor will ever be a true #1 defenceman.

 

[supermann_98]

Cups don't play into contract negotiations. Cups are a team achievement. Contracts are individually awarded.

Parayko has a career high 35 points and 171p in 418 games. Rielly has a career high 72 points and 305p in 572 games. The last 2 years, Rielly completely outproduces Parayko in every category. Rielly has played some of the hardest minutes and has been very good over the last few years in those minutes.

The amount of crap Rielly is getting around here is asinine and you need to re-evaluate something if you don't think Rielly easily deserves more money. Parayko is a good player but come on... The grass isn't always greener.

While I'm a big Reilly fan myself ... I actually think he should have been made captain over JT and Matthews ... I don't see how they can pay him what he's worth when:

1. He already took a hometown discount on his last deal
2. His play surpassed the value of his last deal
3. The big 4 take up waaay too much of a percentage of the cap as it is already
4. He's an UFA, they always get paid more AAV

I'd prefer to get rid of Marner or Nylander to keep Reilly and lock him up long-term, but as he's shown Dubas is loyal to HIS guys first, and Reilly is a Brian Burke pick.

I'd go as high as $7.5-7.8m to keep Reilly, but who gets moved to make room? Can they do that just by moving out Kerfoot? I'm not a cap geek so maybe someone else is more qualified to answer

 

[SprDaVE]

Are you high? Anyone who knows anything about hockey takes Parayko over Reilly 10 times put of 10. He'a a better DEFENCEman, with a shot, better IQ & he's not afraid to hit. He's also 6'6" everyday. Stop being a homer....some of the nonsense I read is laughable. Reilly had 1 good offensive season. He is a JOKE defensively....afraid to hit, has NO shot, can't quarterback a PP...I'm not surprised....good ole Phaneuf was his mentor & he picked up a lot of bad habits from him. I would trade him & get a more solid D first defenceman. In my books he's #3 on the Leafs behind Muzxin & Brodie. He has never been nor will ever be a true #1 defenceman.

"One good offensive season". You don't have to lie here. If he only had 1 good offensive season, Parayko never had one? I don't know what to say to that.

I gave you all the reasons why he'll get paid more. You can disagree all you want and prefer other players based on their skillset but nothing suggests Rielly is inferior from any kind of evaluation tool you want to use. To say he's not a solid defenseman and isn't a top pairing defenseman is quite a bit of mental gymnastics.

While I'm a big Reilly fan myself ... I actually think he should have been made captain over JT and Matthews ... I don't see how they can pay him what he's worth when:

1. He already took a hometown discount on his last deal
2. His play surpassed the value of his last deal
3. The big 4 take up waaay too much of a percentage of the cap as it is already
4. He's an RFA, they always get paid more AAV

I'd prefer to get rid of Marner or Nylander to keep Reilly and lock him up long-term, but as he's shown Dubas is loyal to HIS guys first, and Reilly is a Brian Burke pick.

I'd go as high as $7.5-7.8m to keep Reilly, but who gets moved to make room? Can they do that just by moving out Kerfoot? I'm not a cap geek so maybe someone else is more qualified to answer

Anywhere between 7M and 8M would be fantastic and fairly affordable. I suggested 8x8M at the start the off-season and I still think it's very fair.

I am hoping he's more reasonable about staying with the Leafs long-term as opposed to getting highest penny from anyone, but I also think it's his choice to go for maximum pay day. He's earned that. He'd very likely push the 9M cap hit from another team.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Cups don't play into contract negotiations. Cups are a team achievement. Contracts are individually awarded.

Parayko has a career high 35 points and 171p in 418 games. Rielly has a career high 72 points and 305p in 572 games. The last 2 years, Rielly completely outproduces Parayko in every category. Rielly has played some of the hardest minutes and has been very good over the last few years in those minutes.

The amount of crap Rielly is getting around here is asinine and you need to re-evaluate something if you don't think Rielly easily deserves more money. Parayko is a good player but come on... The grass isn't always greener.

Rielly's 72 point season is a clear outlier. He's never had more than 10 goals in any season other than that one. It's very easy to get alot of assists playing on a PP with Matthws, Marner and Tavares. Parayko is much better than Rielly defensively and if he got the number 1 PP time in STL his numbers would be too. Rielly doesn't deserve a penny more than $6-6.25M, anything more than Parayko and Dubass that fraud should be gassed on the spot.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Are you high? Anyone who knows anything about hockey takes Parayko over Reilly 10 times put of 10. He'a a better DEFENCEman, with a shot, better IQ & he's not afraid to hit. He's also 6'6" everyday. Stop being a homer....some of the nonsense I read is laughable. Reilly had 1 good offensive season. He is a JOKE defensively....afraid to hit, has NO shot, can't quarterback a PP...I'm not surprised....good ole Phaneuf was his mentor & he picked up a lot of bad habits from him. I would trade him & get a more solid D first defenceman. In my books he's #3 on the Leafs behind Muzxin & Brodie. He has never been nor will ever be a true #1 defenceman.

THIS, anyone who disagrees with this post really doesn't know hockey. Rielly should get not a penny more than $6.25M AAV.

 

[Mugzy97]

Rielly's 72 point season is a clear outlier. He's never had more than 10 goals in any season other than that one. It's very easy to get alot of assists playing on a PP with Matthws, Marner and Tavares. Parayko is much better than Rielly defensively and if he got the number 1 PP time in STL his numbers would be too. Rielly doesn't deserve a penny more than $6-6.25M, anything more than Parayko and Dubass that fraud should be gassed on the spot.

What metrics tell you Parayko is better defensively?

 

[SprDaVE]

Rielly's 72 point season is a clear outlier. He's never had more than 10 goals in any season other than that one. It's very easy to get alot of assists playing on a PP with Matthws, Marner and Tavares. Parayko is much better than Rielly defensively and if he got the number 1 PP time in STL his numbers would be too. Rielly doesn't deserve a penny more than $6-6.25M, anything more than Parayko and Dubass that fraud should be gassed on the spot.

If I just say things and remove outliners, anything can fit my narrative!

You're completely ignoring that Parayko played with some really good players himself... not sure that means much in general. He wasn't used as a top pairing defenseman this past season or at any point since he entered the league against top quality competition. He's not even used on their top PK. Also, guess who outproduced who 5 on 5 (removing PP points)?

Parayko is a good player. Rielly has been better for a while, even if he had a bad season per his standards this past season. It's ok to admit the Leafs have better players. If I'm wrong, I'd love to see some form of analysis that shows it other than "Duuuuuuude bro like... ur dumb bro"

 

[geo25]

"One good offensive season". You don't have to lie here. If he only had 1 good offensive season, Parayko never had one? I don't know what to say to that.

I gave you all the reasons why he'll get paid more. You can disagree all you want and prefer other players based on their skillset but nothing suggests Rielly is inferior from any kind of evaluation tool you want to use. To say he's not a solid defenseman and isn't a top pairing defenseman is quite a bit of mental gymnastics.



Anywhere between 7M and 8M would be fantastic and fairly affordable. I suggested 8x8M at the start the off-season and I still think it's very fair.

I am hoping he's more reasonable about staying with the Leafs long-term as opposed to getting highest penny from anyone, but I also think it's his choice to go for maximum pay day. He's earned that. He'd very likely push the 9M cap hit from another team.

 

[geo25]

Forget the double speak & conduct a poll on Reilly vs Parayko at the same salary and who members would prefer on their team....the results will speak for themselves....

 

[Legion34]

While I'm a big Reilly fan myself ... I actually think he should have been made captain over JT and Matthews ... I don't see how they can pay him what he's worth when:

1. He already took a hometown discount on his last deal
2. His play surpassed the value of his last deal
3. The big 4 take up waaay too much of a percentage of the cap as it is already
4. He's an UFA, they always get paid more AAV

I'd prefer to get rid of Marner or Nylander to keep Reilly and lock him up long-term, but as he's shown Dubas is loyal to HIS guys first, and Reilly is a Brian Burke pick.

I'd go as high as $7.5-7.8m to keep Reilly, but who gets moved to make room? Can they do that just by moving out Kerfoot? I'm not a cap geek so maybe someone else is more qualified to answer

you can go up to 8.25 by

Dumping kerfoot. Soup. Engvall.
Signing Campbell for under 4
And sandin/lilly for 3 combined.

 

[keonsbitterness]

It's objective fact. He ran them into the ground post cap. And he was never Sam Pollock before hand.

Pollock's genius was taking advantage of expansion team GMs who went for quick fixes and didn't understand the importance of the new draft system as the league transitioned out of the sponsorship era. We'll never know how Pollock would do under the current draft & cap era, which makes comparisons impossible.

Are you high? Anyone who knows anything about hockey takes Parayko over Reilly 10 times put of 10. He'a a better DEFENCEman, with a shot, higher IQ & he's not afraid to hit. He's also 6'6" everyday. Stop being a homer....some of the nonsense I read is laughable. Reilly had 1 good offensive season. He is a JOKE defensively....afraid to hit, has NO shot, can't quarterback a PP...I'm not surprised....good ole Phaneuf was his mentor & he picked up a lot of bad habits from him. I would trade him & get a more solid D first defenceman. In my books he's #3 on the Leafs behind Muzzin & Brodie. He has never been nor will ever be a true #1 defenceman.

Muzzin and Brodie in their careers have never been given the ice time and responsibility Rielly gets because they can't handle it. Despite his flaws, Rielly can.

I'm not against trading Rielly but who are we getting back? And what's the cap hit?

THIS, anyone who disagrees with this post really doesn't know hockey. Rielly should get not a penny more than $6.25M AAV.

Rielly would get more than that on the open market or if the Leafs re-signed him (huge team-friendly deal excepted). I guess no one knows hockey.

 

[kb]

If I just say things and remove outliners, anything can fit my narrative!

You're completely ignoring that Parayko played with some really good players himself... not sure that means much in general. He wasn't used as a top pairing defenseman this past season or at any point since he entered the league against top quality competition. He's not even used on their top PK. Also, guess who outproduced who 5 on 5 (removing PP points)?

Parayko is a good player. Rielly has been better for a while, even if he had a bad season per his standards this past season. It's ok to admit the Leafs have better players. If I'm wrong, I'd love to see some form of analysis that shows it other than "Duuuuuuude bro like... ur dumb bro"

I mean....it's not even worth replying to such ridiculous posts.

"Let's just make up a whole pile of shit and call it facts".

 

[Menzinger]

Trotz is the guy who played Toews as a #5.

And Trotz is Lous man. The way the Toews situation played out was a Isles front office group effort.