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GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Training camp approaches

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What an awful sequence of events by Bergevin and the Habs, holy crap.

Guy just finished his 20 year old season and they lost him for a late 1st and a magic bean. Then they turn around and deal a 1st that has a very real potential of being 11-15 for a tweener center in Dvorak.

Baffling.
 
Montreal gets contract certainty in acquiring Dvorak. This is also a trade that potentially shouldn't negatively affect them for the time being. Kotkaniemi might have the upside advantage though if he pans out as hoped. Top ten protection aside, there's also the possibility that Arizona could be landing the 1st round pick of a non-playoff team here. Nevertheless, the high cap and low term on that offer sheet probably meant that Montreal was ultimately best served to not match it.
 
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Thank god Montreal can't scout for shit, that's what two 3rd OAs in the last 10 years blown now? And their best pick of that time frame thrown away for another bad 3rd OA, but at least he has a French name. Good stuff.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
No, I don't particularly agree with calling a top pairing defenseman a #5 defenseman, just because, despite the fact that that defenseman was much better than your typical #5, better than his team's 5th best defenseman, and played more than the 5th most minutes throughout that season, they played 3 less seconds than somebody in the playoffs.
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3 seconds isn't a lot, but it was the difference between him being 4th and 5th in ice time. How about usage? He wasn't trusted in defensive situations, and was used essentially as an offensive specialist. That's not the sign of a top-4 defenseman.

It appears New York may have undervalued him, but that wasn't going to change. They had guys they liked more. As I said, I liked him better than Leddy... but Trotz didn't. So, unless you think they should have unloaded Trotz, I'm not sure keeping him was an option.
 
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Dvorak is fine as a player, but the Habs lack any high end offensive talent who could really maximize his ability (I wouldn't trust him to drive a top six line)

The Habs are quite a bit worse this end of the offseason than they were when it started
 
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Dreakmur said:
3 seconds isn't a lot, but it was the difference between him being 4th and 5th in ice time. How about usage? He wasn't trusted in defensive situations, and was used essentially as an offensive specialist. That's not the sign of a top-4 defenseman.

It appears New York may have undervalued him, but that wasn't going to change. They had guys they liked more. As I said, I liked him better than Leddy... but Trotz didn't. So, unless you think they should have unloaded Trotz, I'm not sure keeping him was an option.
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I'd say being used in offensive situations heavily still means your a top 4D just not a top pairing one.

Toews could be considered around a solid 2nd pairing player for the isles when he was there. Issue was he wasn't/isn't better than Pelch in the isles system. He also isn't superior offensively to Pulock and isn't capable at RHD.

Paying 4+ to their 2nd pairing LHD wasn't something they wanted to do when they had Mayfield + Leddy signed for term and both handled a role which Toews had no experience with under trotz system.

The isles also were/are planning fie Dobson to assume a bigger role which made them reconsider giving term and 4+ to Toews. Dobson still hasn't become a solidified top 4D but his potential is the highest of any player on the isles outside of Barzal making the move a calculated one and as we saw this year the isles didn't suffer from Toews departure very much
 
BertCorbeau said:
I like Dvorak but am not sold on him as a solid 2c behind Suzuki

still, good for Montreal for doing decently in this situation

Dvorak is better than KK right now but KK has the higher ceiling long term
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He's going to have to be extremely good defensively because a 25 year old 2C that struggles to crack 40 points in a full season seems pretty meh to me

If this is all Dvorak is he looks more like a good 3C on a strong team to me
 
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Kiwi said:
He's going to have to be extremely good defensively because a 25 year old 2C that struggles to crack 40 points in a full season seems pretty meh to me

If this is all Dvorak is he looks more like a good 3C on a strong team to me
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Honestly Dvorak is basically a Danault replacement, which is still really valuable, but they have a hole at centre in their top 9.
 
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BertCorbeau said:
Honestly Dvorak is basically a Danault replacement, which is still really valuable, but they have a hole at centre in their top 9.
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Suzuki is one hell of a player but he's going to have to score a ton for them to go anywhere this season

I'm a Leafs fan and I've seen the movie where your centers are slotted a line to high for there ability

It doesn't end well
 
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Kiwi said:
Not by much at all and he's 4 years older so he doesn't have KK's upside

I'm presuming he's the Montreal 2C and he's a 50/50 bet to hit 40 points let alone 50

I'd rather take the younger guy and hope for improvement honestly
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If there is a choice between the two, I think KK got more upside. Esp since Dvorak is slightly better.
 
Dreakmur said:
3 seconds isn't a lot, but it was the difference between him being 4th and 5th in ice time.
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Which makes calling him a #5 very odd, considering that he was better than that by every measure, including ice time itself throughout that season.
He wasn't trusted in defensive situations, and was used essentially as an offensive specialist. That's not the sign of a top-4 defenseman.
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He was not used as an "offensive specialist". Many top-4 defensemen are utilized in the same way.
 
Gabriel426 said:
If there is a choice between the two, I think KK got more upside. Esp since Dvorak is slightly better.
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Dvorak may seriously regress. While he is still going to get a ton of ice time, and will get better line mates, he is going from the worst division by far (Pacific) to a division with Toronto, Boston, Tampa, and Florida in it. If he is only averaging ~0.5 PPG in the Pacific, then I don't see how he is going to do better (or even as well) going up against much better teams with much better goalies.
 
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Gabriel426 said:
If there is a choice between the two, I think KK got more upside. Esp since Dvorak is slightly better.
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Going into the season I only saw KK as an average to slightly below 3rd liner so even if Dvorak is slightly better were still talking about an average 3rd liner

It's going to be to be tough to compete in this division with that center lineup imo

The 2nd line centers in this division are pretty bloody good at the top end
 
SeaOfBlue said:
Dvorak may seriously regress. While he is still going to get a ton of ice time, and will get better line mates, he is going from the worst division by far (Pacific) to a division with Toronto, Boston, Tampa, and Florida in it. If he is only averaging ~0.5 PPG in the Pacific, then I don't see how he is going to do better (or even as well) going up against much better teams with much better goalies.
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Kiwi said:
Going into the season I only saw KK as an average to slightly below 3rd liner so even if Dvorak is slightly better were still talking about an average 3rd liner

It's going to be to be tough to compete in this division with that center lineup imo

The 2nd line centers in this division are pretty bloody good at the top end
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no doubt about it. Being slightly better than KK is really not that much.
Heck, I will take Kerfoot over both of them.
 
Dekes For Days said:
Which makes calling him a #5 very odd, considering that he was better than that by every measure, including ice time itself throughout that season.
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You might not like that I simply looked at ice time and ranked them in order, but he came out #5 in the play-offs.... which is why I said he was #5.

He was not used as an "offensive specialist". Many top-4 defensemen are utilized in the same way.
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1st in PP time. Basically no PK time.
 
91LeafsTavares91 said:
What an awful sequence of events by Bergevin and the Habs, holy crap.

Guy just finished his 20 year old season and they lost him for a late 1st and a magic bean. Then they turn around and deal a 1st that has a very real potential of being 11-15 for a tweener center in Dvorak.

Baffling.
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I said it before; the Canadiens are where the Leafs were in 2013. They think they're closer than they actually are, so they're making the kinds of moves you'd expect from a contender... Except they're not a contender, and they're pissing away assets that are likely to turn out more valuable than they appear...
 
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Stephen said:
Somehow Christian Dvorak doesn't seem like the kind of player who should cost a 1st and a 2nd. Turning 26 this upcoming season and has never scored more than 20 goals or 40 points.
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Canadiens fans are in the process of convincing themselves Dvorak is a better Danault...
 
Dreakmur said:
You might not like that I simply looked at ice time and ranked them in order, but he came out #5 in the play-offs.... which is why I said he was #5.



1st in PP time. Basically no PK time.
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Wow you're still going on about a player you know nothing about. Give it a rest already
 
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