GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Training camp approaches

[Buds17]

I think the deal breaks down to, how much do teams usually pay for a 2C/3C at TDL?
I am too lazy to really look into this but I think it is usually 2 to 3 pieces. One of them is a 2 or 3 round pick, one B prospect and a later round pick, or One A prospect and a later round pick. It all depends on the market at the time.
Say Kota is available at TDL, what would be his cost? Is a 1st and a 3rd really that big of an over payment? If so, how about a 2nd and a 3rd? How about TWO 3rds. If TWO 3rds is fair payment at TDL, then a 1st and a 3rd for a whole season is not too bad.

Seems tough to gauge trade value in this instance because it doesn't seem like a former third overall pick at the age of 21 would be frequently dealt at the trade deadline. First and third round picks only really become a potential overpayment for Carolina if they miss the playoffs and/or can't agree on a next contract with Kotkaniemi.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Jack Todd is a goof, but obviously the Kotkaniemi contract was not made in good faith.

No, it was blatant retaliation, and rightfully so.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Elliotte Friedman speculates that if KK goes to Carolina he probably has an extension in his back pocket for less than $6.1 million AAV. Same probably couldn't be said of the Montreal situation, which could really inflate the ask on Suzuki and Caufield.

Plus no Weber or Price and Danault is gone. They should just take the picks and retool, Bergevin bought himself some time and leeway with the finals run.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

That rumoured Cizikas contract is fun.. 6 years by $2.5 .. classic Lou move

Oh I'm sorry, how many playoff series has Lou won since the fraud Dubass was hired? That's what I thought. Seattle was throwing $5M at Cizikas and Lou got him for half. Cizikas is also one of the best bottom 6 players in the league and great in the playoffs. You don't get to talk about Sweet Lou.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Oh I'm sorry, how many playoff series has Lou won since the fraud Dubass was hired? That's what I thought. Seattle was throwing $5M at Cizikas and Lou got him for half. Cizikas is also one of the best bottom 6 players in the league and great in the playoffs. You don't get to talk about Sweet Lou.

Islanders are going to be a train wreck when age catches up to some of these guys. They already have trouble scoring, but an aging roster with a tonne of guys with term is going to be ugly.

I would much rather have our roster moving forward.

 

[4thline]

Islanders are going to be a train wreck when age catches up to some of these guys. They already have trouble scoring, but an aging roster with a tonne of guys with term is going to be ugly.

I would much rather have our roster moving forward.

Yeah but remember all the banners for series wins from the Quinn era, how celebrated that time was and how the next decade was totally worth it?

 

[ToneDog]

Oh I'm sorry, how many playoff series has Lou won since the fraud Dubass was hired? That's what I thought. Seattle was throwing $5M at Cizikas and Lou got him for half. Cizikas is also one of the best bottom 6 players in the league and great in the playoffs. You don't get to talk about Sweet Lou.

Cizikas @ 15m for 6 years. How is that a bad contract ? I'd take that over the rumored money we offered Hyman for 8 years. Clearly the kid took less AAV and more term in order to help Lou fit him in under the cap. What a concept.

 

[mydnyte]

Oh I'm sorry, how many playoff series has Lou won since the fraud Dubass was hired? That's what I thought. Seattle was throwing $5M at Cizikas and Lou got him for half. Cizikas is also one of the best bottom 6 players in the league and great in the playoffs. You don't get to talk about Sweet Lou.

i'm sorry, but a 6 year deal for a career 4th line 30 year old C, is a bit much, and i really like Cizikas, but that is a long time for a 4th liner over 30.
$$ is great though, i thought he'd get more, but thats way too much term. Then again Lou has always been about the right now, and screw the future (someone else's problem by then).

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Cizikas @ 15m for 6 years. How is that a bad contract ? I'd take that over the rumored money we offered Hyman for 8 years. Clearly the kid took less AAV and more term in order to help Lou fit him in under the cap. What a concept.

It's a great contract, no surprise there from the greatest GM of all time. Even when it's in its last two years, its only $2.5M with a cap that'll be rising soon. DUBASS-18 is a deadly disease, stay far, far away my friend.

 

[4thline]

It's a great contract, no surprise there from the greatest GM of all time.

That would be Sam Pollock.

Lou might be a strong runner up for pre-cap work, but he has a disastrous post cap record and has shown zero ability to run a sustainable long term program, and has no cups to show for the short term thinking. The Devils are still trying to dig their way out of the hole he put them in

 

[Dekes For Days]

Seattle was throwing $5M at Cizikas and Lou got him for half. Cizikas is also one of the best bottom 6 players in the league and great in the playoffs.

I believe that the report was that Cizikas was asking in the range of 5m to go to Seattle, not that Seattle was throwing that at him. Lou reportedly got him for 2.5-3m because Cizikas somehow got 6 years from Lou, taking him to age 36. Not sure what you're basing the "great in the playoffs" thing on.

 

[Mugzy97]

Then again Lou has always been about the right now, and screw the future (someone else's problem by then).

Bingo - just like the Zaitsev contract

 

[mydnyte]

Cizikas @ 15m for 6 years. How is that a bad contract ? I'd take that over the rumored money we offered Hyman for 8 years. Clearly the kid took less AAV and more term in order to help Lou fit him in under the cap. What a concept.

I like Cizikas (prob the best 4th line C in the league), and I disliked Hyman, but, Hyman was playing on the top line (even though he should have been a 3rd liner, and is WAY overpaid, and WAY too much term, worst contract in the league territory) but, Cizikas is a career 4th liner, (an elite 4th liner) and, you shouldnt be paying a career 4th liner 2.5+ at 35-36 years of age.
Cizikas should be on a 4 year deal MAX. Hyman should have got a deal in the same price range as Cizikas, and also 4 years Max, but, he's the Oilers albatross now thank goodness!

 

[SnizzNasty88]

That would be Sam Pollock.

Lou might be a strong runner up for pre-cap work, but he has a disastrous post cap record and has shown zero ability to run a sustainable long term program, and has no cups to show for the short term thinking. The Devils are still trying to dig their way out of the hole he put them in

Oh please, excuse after excuse, he won 3 cups there...including a finals appearance in 2012. Lou is the greatest GM this league has ever seen still at 1000 years old. Don't give me that excuse of the Devils digging themselves out of anything, they've had incompetent management ever since Lou left...

 

[4thline]

Oh please, excuse after excuse, he won 3 cups there...including a finals appearance in 2012. Lou is the greatest GM this league has ever seen still at 1000 years old. Don't give me that excuse of the Devils digging themselves out of anything, they've had incompetent management ever since Lou left...

It's objective fact. He ran them into the ground post cap. And he was never Sam Pollock before hand.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

I believe that the report was that Cizikas was asking in the range of 5m to go to Seattle, not that Seattle was throwing that at him. Lou reportedly got him for 2.5-3m because Cizikas somehow got 6 years from Lou, taking him to age 36. Not sure what you're basing the "great in the playoffs" thing on.

Taking him to 36...at a measly $2.5M cap hit when the cap will have gone up by $10M by then. Great in the playoffs is clutch goals, elevating one's game, strong two way play etc. Cizikas has done all that. And no, its not because Cizikas got 6 years, its because he didn't want to leave a team with an elite and strong culture, all of which Sweet Lou stamped on the Island.

 

[mydnyte]

Oh please, excuse after excuse, he won 3 cups there...including a finals appearance in 2012. Lou is the greatest GM this league has ever seen still at 1000 years old. Don't give me that excuse of the Devils digging themselves out of anything, they've had incompetent management ever since Lou left...

Pre-Cap Devil's Lou was the best GM in the League ...Cap Lou, not so much.

 

[ToneDog]

Taking him to 36...at a measly $2.5M cap hit when the cap will have gone up by $10M by then. Great in the playoffs is clutch goals, elevating one's game, strong two way play etc. Cizikas has done all that. And no, its not because Cizikas got 6 years, its because he didn't want to leave a team with an elite and strong culture, all of which Sweet Lou stamped on the Island.

Hard to believe there are good contracts being handed out in the NHL by GMs not named Dubas. Yes, it was 6 years but at $2.5m who cares in years 5 and 6, especially if they win a cup by then. Are the same people complaining about $2.5m when he is 35 and 36, complaining about a 33, 34, 35 year old JT making $11m ??

 

[SprDaVE]

We're basically 2 weeks away from training camp (prospect camp is the start of it for me) and a good amount of RFAs are still unsigned, and a few players that want to be traded that still haven't yet.

I wouldn't expect the Leafs to be involved in anything major... but might get busy around the league soon.

 

[ToneDog]

We're basically 2 weeks away from training camp (prospect camp is the start of it for me) and a good amount of RFAs are still unsigned, and a few players that want to be traded that still haven't yet.

I wouldn't expect the Leafs to be involved in anything major... but might get busy around the league soon.

Everybody should be returning from their summer vacations after labour day. Bet Bergevin will be busy looking for a C. LOL.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

Hard to believe there are good contracts being handed out in the NHL by GMs not named Dubas. Yes, it was 6 years but at $2.5m who cares in years 5 and 6, especially if they win a cup by then. Are the same people complaining about $2.5m when he is 35 and 36, complaining about a 33, 34, 35 year old JT making $11m ??

The thing is.. 2.5M depth players add up over time. The Islanders are a score by committee type Team. You can get away with signing 2.5M player and it's fine because top-end talent lacks. Instead, it's a bunch of mid-tier guys.. which is a completely different model than our current structure.

The Leafs made the same bet with signing Marner, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander early. The issue really was COVID completely changed cap projections. There were plenty of articles stating with revenue sharing / game growing cap would be closer to 100M. No one saw this coming.. I do understand the logic of biting the bullet because we would of likely been on the hunt for bigger name players to ADD instead of SHUFFLE

 

[Dekes For Days]

Taking him to 36...at a measly $2.5M cap hit when the cap will have gone up by $10M by then.

6 years is still a horrible term for a player like him at his age. It's funny how for everybody's contracts other than the Leafs, it's just "oh the cap will go up it's fine".

Great in the playoffs is clutch goals, elevating one's game, strong two way play etc. Cizikas has done all that.

Cizikas has 2 playoff goals and 7 points in his past 45 playoff games, for the record. Over that time, at 5v5, he's been outplayed and outscored 17-10 while he's been on the ice.

 

[Stephen]

Plus no Weber or Price and Danault is gone. They should just take the picks and retool, Bergevin bought himself some time and leeway with the finals run.

Feels like Bergevin made a deal with the devil for that miracle finals run. That franchise seems so cursed after having so much unexpected success.

 

[ToneDog]

The thing is.. 2.5M depth players add up over time. The Islanders are a score by committee type Team. You can get away with signing 2.5M player and it's fine because top-end talent lacks. Instead, it's a bunch of mid-tier guys.. which is a completely different model than our current structure.

The Leafs made the same bet with signing Marner, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander early. The issue really was COVID completely changed cap projections. There were plenty of articles stating with revenue sharing / game growing cap would be closer to 100M. No one saw this coming.. I do understand the logic of biting the bullet because we would of likely been on the hunt for bigger name players to ADD instead of SHUFFLE

When you are betting on 4 players, if one goes down, you are pretty much f***ed because no $700k-$3.5m plater can fill those $7-$11.634m skates. Not the case when you lose a Lee and there are plenty of $3+m players than can step up.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Are the same people complaining about $2.5m when he is 35 and 36, complaining about a 33, 34, 35 year old JT making $11m ??

Tavares' contract ends when he's 34. I doubt he'll make 11m at 35. Tavares is also an elite player (elite players also tend to age better), and infinitely better than Cizikas at his best. He was also signed prior to the flat cap.