GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Training camp approaches

[Legion34]

When you are betting on 4 players, if one goes down, you are pretty much f***ed because no $700k-$3.5m plater can fill those $7-$11.634m skates. Not the case when you lose a Lee and there are plenty of $3+m players than can step up.

?????
they used his space to get players. Not at all the same.
If Tavares went down and the leafs got 11 million worth of rentals it would be a different story.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Lou announcing all of the signings today is funny.

Cizikas - $2.5 x 6
Beauvillier - $4.1 x 3
Sorokin - $4 x 3
Palmieri - $5 x 4

 

[shortfuze]

Oh I'm sorry, how many playoff series has Lou won since the fraud Dubass was hired? That's what I thought. Seattle was throwing $5M at Cizikas and Lou got him for half. Cizikas is also one of the best bottom 6 players in the league and great in the playoffs. You don't get to talk about Sweet Lou.

id love to see that link. not all players are about the money but he would have been pretty stupid to turn that down.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

When you are betting on 4 players, if one goes down, you are pretty much f***ed because no $700k-$3.5m plater can fill those $7-$11.634m skates. Not the case when you lose a Lee and there are plenty of $3+m players than can step up.

Contracts are subjective to what one is willing to pay especially in the 700K to 3.5M range. There are players making 700K like Spezza who likely have more of an impact than a 2.5M player Matt Martin. The Leafs had one of there players go down in a Stanley Cup run.. if this was the Islanders who had Barzal go down.. it would be the same situation....

No one can fill a John Tavares void.. like no one can fill a Matt Barzal void. If anything it exposed Keefe lack of playoff experience. He should of gone Babcock style and spread out the offense of Matthews, Marner, Nylander. We have more depth this year and are better prepared if that situation happens again.

 

[VanW27]

6 years is still a horrible term for a player like him at his age. It's funny how for everybody's contracts other than the Leafs, it's just "oh the cap will go up it's fine".

Cizikas has 2 playoff goals and 7 points in his past 45 playoff games, for the record. Over that time, at 5v5, he's been outplayed and outscored 17-10 while he's been on the ice.

The thing is, Lou has proven time and time again he'll make it work. What is this the 3rd straight offseason of fans shouting that the Islanders are screwed and have no cap space, wont be able to sign Barzal or Pulock or, whoever. And yet again he comes out the other side unscathed, the top players sign for the reasonable contracts that fit the cap structure, to make space pricey but good players (Toews, Leddy) are moved out for strong returns and replaced seamlessly from within and pricey but not good players just disappear (Boychuck). Every time we hear the same thing, "yeah but next year they're screwed"

We on the other hand have been hemorrhaging talent over that same timespan with minimal to no return at all.

 

[4thline]

The thing is, Lou has proven time and time again he'll make it work. What is this the 3rd straight offseason of fans shouting that the Islanders are screwed and have no cap space, wont be able to sign Barzal or Pulock or, whoever. And yet again he comes out the other side unscathed, the top players sign for the reasonable contracts that fit the cap structure, to make space pricey but good players (Toews, Leddy) are moved out for strong returns and replaced seamlessly from within and pricey but not good players just disappear (Boychuck). Every time we hear the same thing, "yeah but next year he's they're screwed"

We on the other hand have been hemorrhaging talent over that same timespan with minimal to no return at all.

The thing is,
A- that all of those "from within" players were inherited, and are running out.
B- that "making it work" has amounted to kicking it down the line. It's a masterful game of financial musical chairs, but unless A is fixed sooner or later the music stops.

And no, they have not seamlessly replaced Leddy and Toews, their D is significantly weaker and very top heavy

 

[IPS]

The only team the Islanders have lost to in the playoffs the last 2 years is the back to back cup winners who were $15M over the cap.

I'll wait and see if the Leafs have a fraction of their success before I go trashing any moves they make.

 

[IPS]

And no, they have not seamlessly replaced Leddy and Toews, their D is significantly weaker and very top heavy

Oh really... what results changed for the Islanders last year without adequately replacing Toews?

 

[ToneDog]

?????
they used his space to get players. Not at all the same.
If Tavares went down and the leafs got 11 million worth of rentals it would be a different story.

Regular season, agreed and we have gotten by when Tavares or Matty was hurt. Harder in playoffs. My point is that the gap in salary and talent between the "Big" 4 and the rest of our forwards makes it more difficult to fill when one of the "Big" 4 goes down with a major injury.

 

[4thline]

Oh really... what results changed for the Islanders last year without adequately replacing Toews?

Are arguing that

Pelech-Pulock
Aho-Mayfield
Green-Dobson

is as good of D as

Pelech-Pulock
Toews-Mayfield
Leddy-Dobson

 

[VanW27]

The thing is,
A- that all of those "from within" players were inherited, and are running out.
B- that "making it work" has amounted to kicking it down the line.

And no, they have not seamlessly replaced Leddy and Toews, their D is significantly weaker and very top heavy

A - They were #2 in GA last season, I think the defense was fine. Remains to be seen for Leddy I guess but I'd be surprised if the weren't a top defensive team again this season
B - they have only 1 notable FA to sign next season, Pulock, while they have 6.5 million coming off the cap from Komarov and Clutterbuck. So no issues at all next offseason.

 

[ToneDog]

The only team the Islanders have lost to in the playoffs the last 2 years is the back to back cup winners who were $15M over the cap.

I'll wait and see if the Leafs have a fraction of their success before I go trashing any moves they make.

Might be a couple of more years as Lou is kicking the can down the road. I wonder if the Islander fans feel the same way about Lou after suffering through all Snow years. The reality is that the Isles have trended up as soon as Lou arrived and we trended down. Very sad.

 

[mydnyte]

Lou announcing all of the signings today is funny.

Cizikas - $2.5 x 6
Beauvillier - $4.1 x 3
Sorokin - $4 x 3
Palmieri - $5 x 4

that puts them almost $4mil over the cap. all that, and the closest (only) they have to a star player is Barzal ...Lou is a genius

 

[VanW27]

that puts them almost $4mil over the cap ...Lou is a genius

Boychuck is LTIRetired, they are 2 million under the cap with a 23 man roster for all practical purposes

 

[4thline]

Might be a couple of more years as Lou is kicking the can down the road. I wonder if the Islander fans feel the same way about Lou after suffering through all Snow years. The reality is that the Isles have trended up as soon as Lou arrived and we trended down. Very sad.

His legacy on the Island will be dictated by whether or not he wins a cup. If he does, it's all worth it. If not, same as Devils fans view in post cap time

 

[ToneDog]

that puts them almost $4mil over the cap. all that, and the closest (only) they have to a star player is Barzal ...Lou is a genius

They lost to the two time SC champs who were $15m over the cap, 1-0 in game #7 on the road with no stars while we choked a 3-1 lead with a number of stars and you are sarcastically calling Lou a genius? Come on, try to be better. Credit where credit is due. It is OK to admit Lou has done well since he left here.

 

[ToneDog]

His legacy on the Island will be dictated by whether or not he wins a cup. If he does, it's all worth it. If not, same as Devils fans view in post cap time

They may or may not win a cup but they have given the Islander fans what Quinn and Burns gave us decades ago. Some of you Lou bashers might not be old enough to know what it feels like and how electric this city is when the Leafs get close to going to the SC finals.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

The only team the Islanders have lost to in the playoffs the last 2 years is the back to back cup winners who were $15M over the cap.

I'll wait and see if the Leafs have a fraction of their success before I go trashing any moves they make.

Having a healthy team is great...

 

[Dekes For Days]

The thing is, Lou has proven time and time again he'll make it work.

He hasn't though.

 

[4thline]

They may or may not win a cup but they have given the Islander fans what Quinn and Burns gave us decades ago. Some of you Lou bashers might not be old enough to know what it feels like and how electric this city is when the Leafs get close to going to the SC finals.

I don't remember Burns but do remember Quinn. I think that glorifying getting "close" is a losers mentality. It's one thing to get caught up in an enjoy a run while it's happening (even it falls short). But looking wistfully at present and past org's that show no indication of caring about building a sustainable program is showing a hilarious lack of memory of the 12 years that followed the Quinn era, and what got us there.

Lou is doing a great job extending their window year by year, masterful maneuvering. But if you actually stop and look at their roster going into this season as well as their prospect pool, it's pretty clear that his tenure has seen a net asset train to make that happen, an there's currently no "next wave". He used assets to bring in Palms and Pageau, but the rest of the roster was inherited, and the last wave of picks (Dobson and Wahlstrom) are in now in the fold.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

id love to see that link. not all players are about the money but he would have been pretty stupid to turn that down.

Or they were throwing 5 mill for one or two years. Maybe over the course of the next 6 years he would make a couple more mill, but it is probably not worth it to him moving from the place he has played his entire career. He is also taking the risk of not falling off of the cliff in the next couple of years and not being able to make more than league minimum... Which is a very realistic possibility for him.

 

[VanW27]

He hasn't though.

Back to back trips to the conference finals only losing to the stacked Lightning team both years.

The top players he wasn't supposed to be able to afford are signed and still there.

I mean if that isn't making it work what the hell do you call what the Leafs are doing over that same time period?

 

[ToneDog]

I don't remember Burns but do remember Quinn. I think that glorifying getting "close" is a losers mentality. It's one thing to get caught up in an enjoy a run while it's happening (even it falls short). But looking wistfully at present and past org's that show no indication of caring about building a sustainable program is showing a hilarious lack of memory of the 12 years that followed the Quinn era, and what got us there.

Lou is doing a great job extending their window year by year, masterful maneuvering. But if you actually stop and look at their roster going into this season as well as their prospect pool, it's pretty clear that his tenure has seen a net asset train to make that happen, an there's currently no "next wave". He used assets to bring in Palms and Pageau, but the rest of the roster was inherited, and the last wave of picks (Dobson and Wahlstrom) are in now in the fold.

Not glorifying anything. I am pointing out that in three short years, Lou has gotten the Isles as far as we have gotten (3x) since this sorry franchise won the Stanley Cup (1967!!! Man landed on the moon in 1969) and he is not done. If that doesn't deserve praise I can't help you.

 

[4thline]

Not glorifying anything. I am pointing out that in three short years, Lou has gotten the Isles as far as we have gotten (3x) since this sorry franchise won the Stanley Cup (1967!!! Man landed on the moon in 1969) and he is not done. If that doesn't deserve praise I can't help you.

Lol not glorifying losing, just praising results short of winning!

 

[ACC1224]

The only team the Islanders have lost to in the playoffs the last 2 years is the back to back cup winners who were $15M over the cap.

I'll wait and see if the Leafs have a fraction of their success before I go trashing any moves they make.

Are we talking 'actual success' or 'expected success"?