GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread -- To trade or not to trade...

[Dreakmur]

i think we are. We already did. That’s the point. Sandin was pp1. If Reilly isn’t pp1 there is no point in extending him

They tried Sandin on PP1, but he could barely stay in the lineup. I’m not sure he’s one of our top-6, let along a legit PP quarterback.

Players aren’t stupid, they’ll see the nepotism.

More importantly, his agent won’t care if the points were undeserved, Sandin putting up a pile of PP points means a much larger contract for next season.

 

[Legion34]

They tried Sandin on PP1, but he could barely stay in the lineup. I’m not sure he’s one of our top-6, let along a legit PP quarterback.

they also signed mennel. Who knows where he will end up but

rielly has Been the QB of a horrific pp and lost his pp job twice in the past 2 years.

 

[LaPlante94]

they also signed mennel. Who knows where he will end up but

rielly has Been the QB of a horrific pp and lost his pp job twice in the past 2 years.

and our PP still didn't really improve. Rielly isn't the issue on that PP and never was but became the scapegoat for it because they really don't want to call out the real issue on that PP.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

and our PP still didn't really improve. Rielly isn't the issue on that PP and never was but became the scapegoat for it because they really don't want to call out the real issue on that PP.

Marner's unwillingness to swap spots with Nylander really kills the PP. Unless you have a PP like Tampa where all 5 guys can shoot, you need to have at least one of JT or Nylander in a shooting position so they don't pinch up on Matthews.

 

[Dreakmur]

they also signed mennel. Who knows where he will end up but

rielly has Been the QB of a horrific pp and lost his pp job twice in the past 2 years.

So a 24 year old who’s never cracked the NHL is going to be our new PP quarterback…

 

[meefer]

Rielly is perhaps the most underrated player on the Leafs. Over the past five years his offensive contributions are almost a direct middle ground between Hamilton and Jones. He's played a ton of minutes against the top quality players the other team can offer, regular season and playoffs, and not always with the best of partners. His defensive metrics compare well to both H and J over the same time frame. He is most vulnerable to being accused of being less physical. He is. And over that same five year period he's averaging slightly less than one hit per game less than Jones and a bit less than that when compared to Hamilton. Sorry, he's also a bit less prolific on the PP than either H or J, but has put up more ESP than either, which I believe most think is the harder thing to do. He's a credit to the team, I believe highly regarded by all, gives his all, and represents the organization in a way that all the fans can respect. I want him on my team. But, if Hamilton, Jones, Nurse are pulling down these numbers, Rielly cannot be expected to sign for much less. If Campbell has a decent year, where does the money come from when it comes time to re-sign. I can't see him taking less than 7.5M/ and if he has a decent year, will probably be expecting 8+ with the cap supposedly going up. To keep at 8+ I think you have to trade either Matthews/Marner (most likely Marner) or resign yourself to seeing more 1M dollar contracts throughout the team. Essentially, it boils down to Marner v Rielly. So far, I think Dubas has made it clear where his money is. Moving Rielly before the season starts is what I think the Leafs will do. As a player and a person, I will miss him.

Edit: Apologies, Rielly outscores Hamilton and Jones on the PP in less games and in fewer minutes on the PP during the past 5 years. ESP: Jones with 141 in 340 games, Rielly with 142 points in 336 games and Hamilton with 149 points in 347 games.

 

[Legion34]

So a 24 year old who’s never cracked the NHL is going to be our new PP quarterback…

Again. The leafs have taken Reilly off the pp twice in the past 2 seasons.


They clearly don’t trust that. He has lost his job twice. Who knows who it will be. But the idea that Reilly is a slam dunk is really silly considering what has happened

 

[meefer]

Again. The leafs have taken Reilly off the pp twice in the past 2 seasons.


They clearly don’t trust that. He has lost his job twice. Who knows who it will be. But the idea that Reilly is a slam dunk is really silly considering what has happened

Which is one of the silliest things the Leafs have done. Over the last 5 years:

*Morgan Rielly has averaged 2:09/game on the PP. He lags behind: Ekblad, Jones, Ellis, Hamilton, Werenski, Weber, Theodore, Pietrangelo, Chabot, Dahlin, Klingberg, Josi, Hedman...actually, at 2:09/game, Rielly sits 62nd in avg PP time per game.
*Over that 5 year period, Rielly is 17th overall in PPP. He leads: Hamilton, Jones, Giordano, in total points and leads each in his PPP%, while playing fewer games.

Morgan Rielly is not the problem with the Leafs PP.

 

[Dreakmur]

Again. The leafs have taken Reilly off the pp twice in the past 2 seasons.


They clearly don’t trust that. He has lost his job twice. Who knows who it will be. But the idea that Reilly is a slam dunk is really silly considering what has happened

There’s a difference between what will happen and what should happen. Rielly should be the slam dunk option, but with Dubas being desperate and Keefe being incompetent there’s no telling what will happen.

 

[deprw]

Never wanted JT; at that time the need was D-men not centers. Hockey foresight is not a thing for the current GM

Well after we signed Tavares we traded from our center depth for defensive help. Though there wasn't that much available for Kadri, but we added important asset and used that situation to our advantage. I think trading Kadri and adding another center was something we should do, after Kadri was sitting in the press box in two consecutive playoff years.

 

[PromisedLand]

Well after we signed Tavares we traded from our center depth for defensive help. Though there wasn't that much available for Kadri, but we added important asset and used that situation to our advantage. I think trading Kadri and adding another center was something we should do, after Kadri was sitting in the press box in two consecutive playoff years.

Thats an inaccurate way of looking at it IMO especially the cap world.

The relative importance of JT's cap hit and his contribution versus relative importance of Kadri's cap hit and his contribution to relative importance of a solid D and their contribution and perhaps the shimmering impact on Matthews and Marner contracts also come into play.

JT is making about 7 million more than Kadri i.e. more than double Kadri's cap hit; Kadri is good for abuot 0.56 ppg; that means JT should be producing about 2 x 0.56 = 1.12 ppg for it to be just even not even a net positive contribution. JT's contract also had impact on Matthews/Marner contracts.

An absolute way of looking at it in a cap world is probably not the right approach.

 

[TheDoldrums]

JT is making about 7 million more than Kadri i.e. more than double Kadri's cap hit; Kadri is good for abuot 0.56 ppg; that means JT should be producing about 2 x 0.56 = 1.12 ppg for it to be just even not even a net positive contribution.

McDavid is making about 8 million more than Ryan Strome (i.e. almost triple Strome's cap hit; Strome is good for about 0.87 PPG; that means McDavid should be producing about 2.5 x 0.87 = 2.18 ppg for it to be just even not even a net positive contribution.

The Oilers traded the wrong centre!

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Which is one of the silliest things the Leafs have done. Over the last 5 years:

*Morgan Rielly has averaged 2:09/game on the PP. He lags behind: Ekblad, Jones, Ellis, Hamilton, Werenski, Weber, Theodore, Pietrangelo, Chabot, Dahlin, Klingberg, Josi, Hedman...actually, at 2:09/game, Rielly sits 62nd in avg PP time per game.
*Over that 5 year period, Rielly is 17th overall in PPP. He leads: Hamilton, Jones, Giordano, in total points and leads each in his PPP%, while playing fewer games.

Morgan Rielly is not the problem with the Leafs PP.

The problem is that the Leafs refuse to admit that Marner has been the problem and refuse to demote him or at least reduce his role.

 

[Dreakmur]

The problem is that the Leafs refuse to admit that Marner has been the problem and refuse to demote him or at least reduce his role.

He was so obsessed with proving his shot didn’t suck.

 

[PromisedLand]

McDavid is making about 8 million more than Ryan Strome (i.e. almost triple Strome's cap hit; Strome is good for about 0.87 PPG; that means McDavid should be producing about 2.5 x 0.87 = 2.18 ppg for it to be just even not even a net positive contribution.

The Oilers traded the wrong centre!

clearly dubas is doing such a fantastic job right?



Clearly Strome/McDavid are pretty much similar in age as Kadri/Tavares

and hey... Tavares has Art Ross trophies and is being described as a generational talent

 

[aingefan]

Reilly at 8 means his current AAV plus Kerfoot’s, with Kessel retention used on a 1.2 mil player. It’s doable.
Get assets for Kerfoot.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Reilly at 8 means his current AAV plus Kerfoot’s, with Kessel retention used on a 1.2 mil player. It’s doable.
Get assets for Kerfoot.

It's doable, provided that someone like Engvall or Brooks is ready to step in as a full time 3rd line centre. Otherwise, it will leave a gaping hole down the middle.

 

[Clark4Ever]

The problem is that the Leafs refuse to admit that Marner has been the problem and refuse to demote him or at least reduce his role.

It starts from the top. When the GM is so overly defensive of Marner in the face of justified criticism from fans and media, we can't expect Keefe to give Marner tough love when it's necessary.

Last season proved that Matthew and Marner are in charge behind the scenes.

 

[rumman]

Reilly at 8 means his current AAV plus Kerfoot’s, with Kessel retention used on a 1.2 mil player. It’s doable.
Get assets for Kerfoot.

I get that the market drives the prices, but does anyone really think MR is worth anywhere near 8 mil?

 

[dubplatepressure]

I get that the market drives the prices, but does anyone really think MR is worth anywhere near 8 mil?

Even if he is, we cannot pay him that here. So it's moot either way.

 

[Sypher04]

they also signed mennel. Who knows where he will end up but

rielly has Been the QB of a horrific pp and lost his pp job twice in the past 2 years.

Rielly has been the D on both a very effective and a very in ineffective power play, but moreso the former than the latter. Our pp was ridiculously terrible last year, but this nonsense people keep spewing acting like Rielly was specifically the problem is just dumb.

Also, for the record, Rielly did not lose his powerplay spot to Barrie. He chose to give it up to try to help Barrie get going. Now maybe he ended up off it longer than he'd envisioned, but Rielly is one hell of a team guy to even offer in the first place. I think Barrie retained that spot because a) it did help him get going and b) Barrie doesn't do a lot overly effectively if he's not producing points, whereas Rielly does.

 

[Legion34]

Even if he is, we cannot pay him that here. So it's moot either way.

we technically can. We can fit rielly in at 8x8 with
The same d. Campbell at 4 and cheap bottom 6..

 

[Dreakmur]

It's doable, provided that someone like Engvall or Brooks is ready to step in as a full time 3rd line centre. Otherwise, it will leave a gaping hole down the middle.

Kampf will be our 3rd line center this year. Kerfoot has just been a winger forced out of position to justify a trade.

 

[jaric1862]

A guy who we could get for cheap and could help with competition with Dermott...Matt Benning

 

[Kiwi]

Why are we even discussing Rielly?

It's to ******* late to sort out now, that bus has well and truly left the station

I seriously doubt we can afford to resign him so enjoy him this season and wave goodbye as he walks for nothing next off-season

Leafs mismanagement, you can't beat it