GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread -- To trade or not to trade...

[str8kila]

All of us said we had the best chance at the semis at least last year ,If dubas moved hyman at the deadline this board woulda had a meltdown. It's easy to sit here now after the disappoint of losing and say ya we shoulda traded him and got asset. We were all asking for tdl additions not subtractions last year

 

[ShaneFalco]

Jacques Martin's Ottawa Senators era says hi.

I also have to ask at what point do you stop just selling assets for futures? How do you know?

I mean you're going to keep certain players and let them walk. All teams do. But doing that year after year AND trading pics for a playoff run - it catches up to you as it has with the Leafs. Look at Rielly right now - what's to gain by sitting back and taking a "wait and see" approach. The GM is paid for results; paid to make the big decisions. We've done a piss-poor job

 

[Fogelhund]

That would need a huge add from the Leafs in regards to Marner/Reilly for Eichel/Dahlin even with Eichels injury concern.

Eichel wants out, and the number of suitors can't be huge.... Do you think they'll get back a player better than Marner in a trade for him? Marner's put up more points, in one less season than Eichel has so far... 3 more points, 20 less games.. Eichel is disgruntled, and has an injury.

Dahlin has a much higher ceiling potential than Reilly, but hasn't really proven much yet, and isn't going in the right direction in Buffalo... does he want out, just like everyone else?

 

[Morgs]

I was gonna say pretty much exactly this. We are not moving Rielly to just recoup picks. We need roster players, be flipping those assets for roster players or forget it

Eh, I'm not convinced we NEED roster players for Rielly. If the best offer on the table is more valuable but brings no roster players I'd definitely take that deal over putting a square peg in a round hole. I think we have the defenseman to replace his impact (or at least not make us worse), but even if it ends up not working out, you can reroute those assets that you received for a defenseman/forward that better fits the team.

 

[Kurtz]

All of us said we had the best chance at the semis at least last year ,If dubas moved hyman at the deadline this board woulda had a meltdown. It's easy to sit here now after the disappoint of losing and say ya we shoulda traded him and got asset. We were all asking for tdl additions not subtractions last year

Yes. A lot of posters here live in fantasy land where playoff teams sell off their UFAs on the regular.

That doesn't happen in the NHL. It's bad business, especially in a league where every other year a dark-horse sneaks into the finals.

I've only seen a trade like this once in the past 20 years that I can remember - when St Louis, a playoff contender at the time, dealt Shattenkirk for a 1st. Funny enough, we tried to do the same dang thing with Barrie 2 years ago, but couldn't sucker anyone into giving us a decent offer.

 

[Kurtz]

Eh, I'm not convinced we NEED roster players for Rielly. If the best offer on the table is more valuable but brings no roster players I'd definitely take that deal over putting a square peg in a round hole. I think we have the defenseman to replace his impact (or at least not make us worse), but even if it ends up not working out, you can reroute those assets that you received for a defenseman/forward that better fits the team.

We will absolutely be a worse team tomorrow if we give Morgan's 24 minutes/night to Sandin and/or Dermott. The only possible way we can move on from Morgan and not get worse is if we bring in another known, veteran commodity like we did with Muzzin/Brodie.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

What does every think about Rielly to Pittsburgh? Burke drafted him, claimed he was the best player available at the 2012 draft. Make a trade around Rielly for Pettersson+. Maybe even 1 for 1. Pettersson had a bad year last season but he has 4 years left at just over 4m. If someone wants to enlighten me with his numbers not just last year but the years prior as well.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

What does every think about Rielly to Pittsburgh? Burke drafted him, claimed he was the best player available at the 2012 draft. Make a trade around Rielly for Pettersson+. Maybe even 1 for 1. Pettersson had a bad year last season but I has 4 years left at just over 4m. If someone wants to enlighten me with his numbers not just last year but the years prior as well.

Pettersson is closer to a cap dump than anything worth Rielly.

Marino and Dumoulin are the only ones worth our time (I am assuming Letang is not available) and we'd need a fairly significant plus attached to both. Problem is that Marino is a RD and would block Liljegren, while Dumoulin is not a guy who puts up offense. So even then it is not the best fit.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

What does every think about Rielly to Pittsburgh? Burke drafted him, claimed he was the best player available at the 2012 draft. Make a trade around Rielly for Pettersson+. Maybe even 1 for 1. Pettersson had a bad year last season but he has 4 years left at just over 4m. If someone wants to enlighten me with his numbers not just last year but the years prior as well.

What the….

 

[nuck]

What does every think about Rielly to Pittsburgh? Burke drafted him, claimed he was the best player available at the 2012 draft. Make a trade around Rielly for Pettersson+. Maybe even 1 for 1. Pettersson had a bad year last season but he has 4 years left at just over 4m. If someone wants to enlighten me with his numbers not just last year but the years prior as well.

I had to google to find out who the Pettersson was that you would trade Rielly for. This isn't him The most important number is 16:29 because that puts him on the 3rd pair. He might be a useful player but Pittsburgh is not a good enough team that their 3rd pairing guys steps into the Leafs top 4. No offense and no physicality. He doesn't have enough of a track record that you can say the growth of two years ago is more reliable than last season. I like the idea of trading for younger and cheaper but I think the Leafs can expect a player back who could reliably move into at least the 2nd pair. Not sure why Petterssen went backwards but he might not even be = Dermott next season never mind MR.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

We will absolutely be a worse team tomorrow if we give Morgan's 24 minutes/night to Sandin and/or Dermott. The only possible way we can move on from Morgan and not get worse is if we bring in another known, veteran commodity like we did with Muzzin/Brodie.

I think Hanifin+ for Rielly could be something worth exploring. Hanifin has not lived up to his #1 potential at this point, but he has 3 years left at practically the same cap hit as what Rielly has right now and is a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. At 24, he may still be able to improve and at least become a Muzzin-quality defender here... But with more offensive upside.

It's a downgrade, because Rielly is a #1 defenseman and Hanifin is a #3 at best right now, but if Calgary gives us a 1st round pick in there too... Then it could be worth our time. Calgary lost Giordano and could use a guy like Rielly to lead their defense on the left side, especially in the offensive end. We are not in the same division nor conference, so that is also not a major concern. Seems like a good fit overall.


LD Noah Hanifin
Conditional 2022 1st round pick (CGY)*

* If the 2022 1st round pick is in the top 5, then it moves to 2023 unprotected.


LD Morgan Rielly
LW Pierre Engvall

 

[Phion Keneuf]

I think Hanifin+ for Rielly could be something worth exploring. Hanifin has not lived up to his #1 potential at this point, but he has 3 years left at practically the same cap hit as what Rielly has right now and is a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. At 24, he may still be able to improve and at least become a Muzzin-quality defender here... But with more offensive upside.

It's a downgrade, because Rielly is a #1 defenseman and Hanifin is a #3 at best right now, but if Calgary gives us a 1st round pick in there too... Then it could be worth our time. Calgary lost Giordano and could use a guy like Rielly to lead their defense on the left side, especially in the offensive end. We are not in the same division nor conference, so that is also not a major concern. Seems like a good fit overall.


LD Noah Hanifin
Conditional 2022 1st round pick (CGY)*

* If the 2022 1st round pick is in the top 5, then it moves to 2023 unprotected.


LD Morgan Rielly
LW Pierre Engvall

I wouldn’t mind something like that. With either Hanifin or Andersson being the D coming back.

But I’d try for a Hanifin/Andersson + Mangiapane package.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

I guess it's just me but I don't see a huge return happening in a Rielly trade. Despite playing in one of the biggest markets, he has never really garnered much Norris consideration compared to guys like Jones, Hamilton, Werenski etc. So Pettersson + 1st rd. pick. But this is why I asked for Petterssons advanced numbers. And to the person who said he's not physical. 2019-2020 season he had over 100 hits, Rielly had 38.

 

[aingefan]

Eh, I'm not convinced we NEED roster players for Rielly. If the best offer on the table is more valuable but brings no roster players I'd definitely take that deal over putting a square peg in a round hole. I think we have the defenseman to replace his impact (or at least not make us worse), but even if it ends up not working out, you can reroute those assets that you received for a defenseman/forward that better fits the team.

It would be risky, but feasible. It would definitely lend support to their confidence in the young D in house.
I guess my optimal return would be a young cost controlled D who is more in the ‘solid not flashy’ mold, like a pre-Muzzin Muzzin. And some picks.
Or a two way C who could develop into a 2C. And a pick or two.
Or a super convincing G prospect in a package.
Definitely I’d want one of those long-term needs addressed.

 

[aingefan]

Yes. A lot of posters here live in fantasy land where playoff teams sell off their UFAs on the regular.

That doesn't happen in the NHL. It's bad business, especially in a league where every other year a dark-horse sneaks into the finals.

I've only seen a trade like this once in the past 20 years that I can remember - when St Louis, a playoff contender at the time, dealt Shattenkirk for a 1st. Funny enough, we tried to do the same dang thing with Barrie 2 years ago, but couldn't sucker anyone into giving us a decent offer.

And CHI doing it on the fly during the off-season, but your point stands.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I wouldn’t mind something like that. With either Hanifin or Andersson being the D coming back.

But I’d try for a Hanifin/Andersson + Mangiapane package.

At this point, I would rather have the 1st. I like what we have on LW right now, unless we plan on moving Kerfoot in that deal as well.

 

[Knies iT]

I wouldn’t mind something like that. With either Hanifin or Andersson being the D coming back.

But I’d try for a Hanifin/Andersson + Mangiapane package.

Hanifin + Zary.

CGY won’t subtract from their NHL roster scoring depth as they’re already anemic offensively. Leafs need a long-term solution for the top 9 C.

LA is another team that would potentially be in on Rielly. He’s a west coast guy and they seem to be accelerating their rebuild by acquiring guys like Danault. Doughty and Kopitar only have so much runway left but Rielly is young enough to be part of the next wave.

Starts with Brandt Clarke for me. LA was shopping 8th OV to begin with. Clarke could be better than Rielly but that gamble leaves you without an immediate replacement. Adding a Mikey Anderson (Joey’s brother) could soften that blow. Would be D by committee, though.

 

[Menzinger]

The Rielly question is incredibly interesting, and difficult to answer.

If the Leafs could get a Jones level package that would be pretty tempting to pass up. Then again they'd need to get a replacement player as part of the return package, or make a second trade to being in a new top 4 D man. Rielly has also been one of the Leafs to elevate his game in the playoffs

The answer is hard to reach without knowing what he wants to sign a new deal too

 

[BertCorbeau]

The Rielly question is incredibly interesting, and difficult to answer.

If the Leafs could get a Jones level package that would be pretty tempting to pass up. Then again they'd need to get a replacement player as part of the return package, or make a second trade to being in a new top 4 D man. Rielly has also been one of the Leafs to elevate his game in the playoffs

The answer is hard to reach without knowing what he wants to sign a new deal too

One thing for sure if Dubas is throwing Rielly's name out there, it would be done very quietly.

 

[Stephen]

The Rielly question is incredibly interesting, and difficult to answer.

If the Leafs could get a Jones level package that would be pretty tempting to pass up. Then again they'd need to get a replacement player as part of the return package, or make a second trade to being in a new top 4 D man. Rielly has also been one of the Leafs to elevate his game in the playoffs

The answer is hard to reach without knowing what he wants to sign a new deal too

The Leafs could have gone into the offseason with a more decisive game plan to play defenseman musical chairs (and committed some serious money for a marginal upgrade on a long term deal). But inaction likely means they have to stick with Rielly and lock him in to keep options open over the next few seasons. We can't walk him to free agency because that would seriously damage their back end and it probably becomes harder for them to go after a UFA next season. Unless of course they can pivot to a previously not available younger option like a Jakob Chychrun nobody knew was available...

 

[DougGilmour93]

I’d consider ...

Mangapaine. + Hanifin

FOr

Kerfoot + Reilly

 

[Legion34]

I guess it's just me but I don't see a huge return happening in a Rielly trade. Despite playing in one of the biggest markets, he has never really garnered much Norris consideration compared to guys like Jones, Hamilton, Werenski etc. So Pettersson + 1st rd. pick. But this is why I asked for Petterssons advanced numbers. And to the person who said he's not physical. 2019-2020 season he had over 100 hits, Rielly had 38.

he was literally 5th in Norris 3 years ago.

 

[Gabriel426]

The Rielly question is incredibly interesting, and difficult to answer.

If the Leafs could get a Jones level package that would be pretty tempting to pass up. Then again they'd need to get a replacement player as part of the return package, or make a second trade to being in a new top 4 D man. Rielly has also been one of the Leafs to elevate his game in the playoffs

The answer is hard to reach without knowing what he wants to sign a new deal too

Agree.

The Jones package is really tempting. Would Dubas do it though?
I don’t think he will, even if he knows Leafs can’t afford Reilly’s new contract. In his mind, he believes the team can win the Cup if only they don’t run into a hot goalie or a great team or AM and Marner not choking.

 

[Gabriel426]

Not so sure. 16/44 are bonifide players and Marner owed $6mx4. Eich injury and Dahlin not bonifide. Reminds me a bit of the Jays' trade for Carter and Alomar.

Who is Carter and Alomar in this case?

 

[TML Dynasty]

I like the idea of trading Reilly if his ask is too high. I get that throwing Sandin in and expecting similar production is crazy but I wonder how long it would take him to grow into it? Same as the suggestions of Lily with Muzzin. A rough start would be palatable if we had faith they could put it together in a short amount of time. I dont like the idea of an own rental as im not too optimistic about next year at this point.