GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - The Madness Continues

[Dreakmur]

There are few guarantees for anything in life.

So why gamble with 10s of millions?

 

[Dreakmur]

Another example of bargaining looking to a declining player who didn't deliver in the playoffs for a team that delivered in the playoffs.

Twice…

He was a healthy scratch when Vegas went to the finals too.

 

[SprDaVE]

Another example of bargaining looking to a declining player who didn't deliver in the playoffs for a team that delivered in the playoffs.

Taylor Hall is pretty infamous for this type of rhetoric and the Bruins had no problem going after him and extending him for a long-time. There's a long list of players that I can add here that had this kind of red flag that had no problems producing for other teams in the playoffs... even winning cups!

Again, for the right price, Tatar would be a smart bet. But I don't disagree there are risks and red flags surrounding him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That's a lot of extra hoops to jump through to get a lower tax rate. Most players tend to live in the city they play in. Especially if they have a family.

But hey, if you completely rearrange the rest of your life and your family's life, and let your taxes dictate where you live and retire, then maybe you can make back the money and life enjoyment you lost as a result of letting millions of dollars sit around doing nothing, as long as everything tax-related stays exactly the same in both countries for decades! What a benefit!!

 

[ShaneFalco]

Twice…

He was a healthy scratch when Vegas went to the finals too.

He'd fit right in then

 

[Leaf Fans]

So why gamble with 10s of millions?

On the non gaurenteed chance you will make more.

 

[Legion34]

It is more of a hit on the lower paid players who need most of their salary now. For the star players the tax disadvantage is a myth. A good tax accountant and a decent plan can make the taxes almost equal or ultimately better in Canada. The two main vehicles are signing bonus and RCAs (retirement compensation arrangements) that are only available to Canadian players. The signing bonus works well for guys like Matthews who are not Canadian. while the RCA works wonders for a guy like Marner.

Matthews earned 15.9M last year, 700K salary and 15.2M signing bonus. As an Arizona resident he will pay Canadian taxes on the 700K. on the 15.2M he will pay a 15% withholding tax to Canada. Then it gets taxed in Arizona at Arizona rates but he will get a credit there for the 15% he paid to Canada. Arizona has a minimal state tax 4.5% I think. should he choose to live in Florida he could effectively enjoy same tax as the Tampa players except for the Canadian tax on the 700K.

What can Marner who is Canadian do? Harder to justify being an American resident as he is not from there. Don't worry he can get creative too. his compensation last year was 15M. 14.3 in signing bonus and 700K in salary. He can remain a Canadian resident but set up an RCA that will allow him to put up to half his salary in a RCA where it is not taxed until he withdraws the money- think super RRSP. So on half his salary he pays Cdn tax lets say 50% to make the math easy. so 50% but on half the salary so so far 25% is gone. The other 50% can be invested in The RCA earning income with no taxation now. Once he retires he can withdraw the money and be taxed on it where he lives. The withdraws if he is outside Canada will be subject to a 25% withholding that work like Matthews 15% above- he gets credit for them on his tax where he is paying tax.

Marner in theory could defer tax on 50% of his contract about 33M. That will sit tax deferred until he withdraws it. He could move to a low tax jurisdiction (say Florida) and withdraw it. In that case he pays Florida tax on half his salary and Cdn tax on 1/2. If he wants to really benefit he moves to a no tax Jurisdiction like Monaco and then collapses his RCA. He pays only the 25% withholding so his tax rate is 50% on 1/2 and 25% on the other for a average tax rate of 37.5% - a bit lower than the Tampa guys.

The RCA is only available to players playing in Canada. It also allows him to invest 1/2 his salary tax deferred. He is still only paying 25% on all the investment earnings in the RCA in the above scenario. So really the high paid players in Canada can have their cake and eat it too.

The NBA has does not allow RCA's as it gives the Raptors too much of an advantage over the American based teams.

actual accountants have disputed this. If you are american

you have to show that you have greater financial ties to Arizona than Toronto

1.) days living in a country. If you spend 65 of 82
Games in Canada. Plus playoffs. Plus camp. It’s hard to do. Not only that they take into account
-
-owned property or stability. So if you but a house or long term lease
-kids in school?
-long term car lease
-sponsorships
-relationship with a Canadian?

Every year you have to prove it. The accountant for NHL players said that it is too strenuous and restrictive to get all years in long term contract. Generally you can get the first 2.

2.) RCA are a joke. They are an RRSP. Which lock your money away and determine where you live after the fact and trickle down.

Methot just came out and said he saved 700k a year moving to Dallas on a 4.9 m contract.

I’m sure internet people are smarter than all of the sports agencies and financial advisors for players.

show ONE actual player who actually comes out and says that they saved money with an RCA in comparison to tax free states

 

[Leaf Fans]

He'd fit right in then

I suppose, every team has healthy scratches, but why sign him for that?

 

[justashadowof]

Taylor Hall is pretty infamous for this type of rhetoric and the Bruins had no problem going after him and extending him for a long-time. There's a long list of players that I can add here that had this kind of red flag that had no problems producing for other teams in the playoffs... even winning cups!

Again, for the right price, Tatar would be a smart bet. But I don't disagree there are risks and red flags surrounding him.

There is no right price for the Leafs in their current situation for a player like this. He isn't competitive enough in the playoffs. That's the exact problem the current roster has. The only consideration for a player like this IMO is a 1 year deal that you trade for draft picks at the trade deadline OR if you're not sure that your team can score enough playing high tempo regular season shinny hockey.

 

[Dreakmur]

Taylor Hall is pretty infamous for this type of rhetoric and the Bruins had no problem going after him and extending him for a long-time. There's a long list of players that I can add here that had this kind of red flag that had no problems producing for other teams in the playoffs... even winning cups!

Again, for the right price, Tatar would be a smart bet. But I don't disagree there are risks and red flags surrounding him.

I don’t like any UFAs right now, so I’d me looking for a trade.

Packages could include Dermott, either Engvall or Mikheyev, and a prospect like Abruzzese or Hirvonen… maybe even a pick for the right guy.

Jordan Greenway
Miles Wood or Pavel Zacha
Lawson Crouse
Max Comtois
Andrew Copp
Nick Paul
Nick Cousins

 

[meefer]

Ok, I was right the first time. We’re blaming leaf failures on the taxes.

Is it just because you want to be contentious, or are you incapable of seeing the complexities of signing contracts between two different tax systems? We get it, you want to take a shot at Dubas, but come on, you really can't see the advantage Florida teams have?

 

[Dreakmur]

Is it just because you want to be contentious, or are you incapable of seeing the complexities of signing contracts between two different tax systems? We get it, you want to take a shot at Dubas, but come on, you really can't see the advantage Florida teams have?

I don’t like excuses. Winners don’t need them.

 

[exporta]

Wonder what people think of this (Change the layout a bit)

Christian Dvorak + 4th
(4.5)
for
Alexander Kerfoot + Travis Dermott + 2nd
(5)

Tavares - Matthews - Nylander
Robertson - Dvorak - Marner
Bunting - Kampf - Mikhayev
Simmonds - Spezza - Brooks


Notes:
Line 1 : Load up the top line - Tavares and Matthews share the dot, takes pressure off JT and can be a creative passer off the wall and in tight areas. (Down the middle he can struggle when flatfooted)
Line 2 : Dvorak and Marner reunited, and it creates a fun line. Robertson can be the trigger man (He's a bit of a hound dog when at his best)
Line 3 : Looks like a a nice shutdown line; speed, gritty, puck possession will give teams fits.
Line 4 : If Simmonds is healthy; there's no reason this vet line can't have positive impact.

*If we move Engvall (and added space from trade) - It leaves us with more wiggle room to sign a 4th liner and/or insurance Dman (Aprx 2.5m ? )

If last years playoffs taught us anything, is that loading up a line just makes us easier to defend and shut down.

We need 3 lines that are a threat to score everytime they are on the ice. $11M players should elevate their line mates. Each $11M player should drive a line, not play on one line.

Pittsburgh did this with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and won 2 cups.

 

[ShameOnYouZidlicky]

Going with 7D in the NHL and 12 forwards. The Leafs according to capfriendly have 2.96M in cap space to spend on the mystery LW.

Ritchie like Bunting is only 25, so he should be heading into prime years and he fits in age wise with the core. He's more of a middle six winger. Capable of 40-50 points, but could also come in the 30+ point range. They were after Foligno and this is his closest comparable and my preference. I'd even give him 4 years at 2.5M, cheap cost certainty with the league cap uncertainty for a player in his prime that plays an aggressive game.

I think Tomas Tatar gets a deal worth much more than that or else he'd be a great addition.

Nick Ritchie is a dumb as bricks hockey player

 

[meefer]

What’s the solution? You want the nhl to add ab artificial tax to even the field? No way the players go for that.

Why not? If you're the league and you're demanding a cap that equalizes, than equalize. There is a tax advantage that certain markets have over other markets, where the player takes home more pay based on the team they sign with based on the tax structures of the location. Hell, any adequate accountancy firm could solve the inequities in a day based on the info that is readily available. Or are you just using this unequal system to bitch at a management group you don't like?

 

[Americanadian]

Swap Kerfoot+Amirov into Mangiapane and the Leafs have their new top 6 LW and 4.5M to spend elsewhere.

 

[justashadowof]

Why not? If you're the league and you're demanding a cap that equalizes, than equalize. There is a tax advantage that certain markets have over other markets, where the player takes home more pay based on the team they sign with based on the tax structures of the location. Hell, any adequate accountancy firm could solve the inequities in a day based on the info that is readily available. Or are you just using this unequal system to bitch at a management group you don't like?

There's nothing wrong with your proposal in what is already a completely artificial closed system already. I'm expecting that it's going to happen because Tampa Bay has won two consecutive Cups in small part due this advantage. It won't be done to help Toronto, it'll be done to help the New York's, Philadelphia's and Boston's of this league because those are the teams who provide the impetus behind every league change.

 

[VanW27]

Looking at our lineup right now I'd love to add a right shot, two-way 3C. It would allow us to use Kerfoot as a top 6 winger while providing some injury insurance at center.

Michael McLeod is a guy I have my eye on. Not the sexiest acquisition but good defensively, still young (23), physical, strong on the draw, PKs and production is pretty good considering usage. Low cap, 975K, and trade cost shouldn't be too high.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I don’t like excuses. Winners don’t need them.

Looking at the variables isn't an excuse. Yes, you can overcome them, but if we both go into a race and I have an anchor attached to my leg, pointing that out isn't just making an excuse. There's a reason why in business if a project fails that they still do a post mortem on it. The boss doesn't just quote the Sean Connery speech about f*cking the prom queen from the Rock.

 

[meefer]

Reasons for Leafs' playoff failures:

Taxes
CBA
Covid
Bad luck
Refereeing
Goaltending (sorry, couldn't do that one this year)
Inexperience
A specific player I don't like
The fans
This board
A specific poster I don't like
The ice quality
Lou
Mark Hunter
Impatience

I will say 8 of those have validity. But, the primary reasons they have lost are:
1) First 3 years, there was not enough talent and we lost to better teams. That people got all excited is their problem. We weren't good enough.
2) Our best players didn't perform well enough. Columbus and Montreal. And, Columbus and Toronto were very close in the regular season, we should have won.
3) Ya, a bit more depth would have helped. Blame drafting, letting players go without return, assuming a Brian Boyle would be enough, etc. Quit fooling yourself.
4) Matthews and Marner. Marner has taken the heat, but Auston should not go blameless.

 

[Dreakmur]

Why not? If you're the league and you're demanding a cap that equalizes, than equalize. There is a tax advantage that certain markets have over other markets, where the player takes home more pay based on the team they sign with based on the tax structures of the location. Hell, any adequate accountancy firm could solve the inequities in a day based on the info that is readily available. Or are you just using this unequal system to bitch at a management group you don't like?

Reducing the cap reduces my money. Why would the players volunteer for a pay cut?

 

[meefer]

I don’t like excuses. Winners don’t need them.

Hell of a response, avoid the topic.

 

[Dreakmur]

Looking at the variables isn't an excuse. Yes, you can overcome them, but if we both go into a race and I have an anchor attached to my leg, pointing that out isn't just making an excuse. There's a reason why in business if a project fails that they still do a post mortem on it. The boss doesn't just quote the Sean Connery speech about f*cking the prom queen from the Rock.

As soon as you use it a justification for failure, it’s an excuse.

 

[CDN24]

actual accountants have disputed this. If you are american

you have to show that you have greater financial ties to Arizona than Toronto

1.) days living in a country. If you spend 65 of 82
Games in Canada. Plus playoffs. Plus camp. It’s hard to do. Not only that they take into account
-
-owned property or stability. So if you but a house or long term lease
-kids in school?
-long term car lease
-sponsorships
-relationship with a Canadian?

Every year you have to prove it. The accountant for NHL players said that it is too strenuous and restrictive to get all years in long term contract. Generally you can get the first 2.

2.) RCA are a joke. They are an RRSP. Which lock your money away and determine where you live after the fact and trickle down.

Methot just came out and said he saved 700k a year moving to Dallas on a 4.9 m contract.

I’m sure internet people are smarter than all of the sports agencies and financial advisors for players.

show ONE actual player who actually comes out and says that they saved money with an RCA in comparison to tax free states

• First off an actual accountant wrote the post you are replying too.
• The defacto residency test for a non Canadian resident to be considered Canadian and taxed in Canada on their world-wide income is 183 days spent in Canada. (that is the hardest one to meet but with the amount of travel to uS teams not that difficult) Maybe that's why Matthews doesn't win playoff series don't want extra days in cda.
• Financial ties- where are your main bank accts located- that's easy
• Own a house in The states- again easy
• Us drivers license/health insurance

In fact it is much easier for Matthews an American to ensure he stays an American resident for taxes than it is for Methot a Canadian to sufficiently sever his ties with Canada to not be taxed in Canada on world-wide income.

No player will come out and tell you how where they file their taxes. Let's be honest a lot don't know-their agent/advisors takes care of that.
Sometimes internet people are not who you think they are- maybe they have been financial advisors for players.

 

[meefer]

There's nothing wrong with your proposal in what is already a completely artificial closed system already. I'm expecting that it's going to happen because Tampa Bay has won two consecutive Cups in small part due this advantage. It won't be done to help Toronto, it'll be done to help the New York's, Philadelphia's and Boston's of this league because those are the teams who provide the impetus behind every league change.

An interesting take, NY, Philly, Boston...the league is not level. That needs to change.